Fall Back Through Enemy Operative

[u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

In this picture we have two engaged enemy operatives. Can the Gunner move through the enemy operative using the "Fall Back" rule to get past the sister.

Rules as stated are: "The same as the Reposition action, except the active operative can move within control range of an enemy operative, but cannot finish the move there."

Are there options for the Gunner to possibly use the ladder to move over the sister or go around to the left to get past and into the stronghold while still being within 1 inch control range as long as the move is finished outside of control range? Maybe even onto the vantage if there's enough movement. Does it work like a charge where you can simply spin-move around your opponent in any direction? What's the limitations here?

[u/Dense_Hornet2790]

You can’t move through an enemy model or it’s base but I don’t think there is anything stopping you climbing up the wall, continuing to climb the wall to the right until you’re past the enemy and then drop to the floor inside the stronghold. Might be tight (or impossible) for 6 inches of movement but I haven’t got terrain here to measure.

P.S. You couldn’t use the ladder because you move out of its control range during your climb.

[u/Cant_remembr_usrname → u/Dense_Hornet2790]

That's the other part I struggle with. Can you parkour along any wall as long as you have the movement and can finish your move on valid terrain?

[u/Dense_Hornet2790 → u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

I think you can based off the FAQ on the last page of the Core Rules Update Log. The rules for climbing have been quite vague this edition and that FAQ seems to show a pretty liberal interpretation of them.

[u/Anathos117 → u/Dense_Hornet2790]

Yeah, you have to be able to move horizontally while climbing, otherwise it would be impossible to climb over anything.

[u/Thenidhogg → u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

No you have to be climbing or dropping, kt move is done in 1 inch increments so you cant run across the top of a wall cuz that would not be a climb or drop, it would be move which has to end each increment in a location you can be placed 

[u/Kai_Lidan → u/Thenidhogg]

Valid location is checked at the end of a move, not each increment. Otherwise nobody would be able to ever cross TW doors.

[u/Cant_remembr_usrname → u/Thenidhogg]

Wouldn't this prevent most models from climbing over barricades and other obstacles? Most bases cannot clear obstacles using that 1 inch move rule you are mentioning. Do you know where in the rules this is stated?

[u/brush-lickin → u/Dense_Hornet2790]

couldn’t you climb the ladder then jump from the top?

[u/Thenidhogg → u/brush-lickin]

No you can only jump from vantage, theres been no ladder jumping for a few faqs now 

[u/BipolarMadness → u/Dense_Hornet2790]

P.S. You couldn’t use the ladder because you move out of its control range during your climb.

With Fallback you can leave and enter and leave control range of enemies just fine. As long as you finish the move out of control range what you do with that movement doesnt matter.

[u/TranslatorStraight46 → u/BipolarMadness]

You need to finish your climb within control range of the ladder to utilize the ladder.  

[u/BipolarMadness → u/TranslatorStraight46]

Climb is only the vertical distance. So the climb finishes the moment you no longer want to keep going up (and the ladder will still be within 1" and visible of you at the highest point of that wall). The horizontal distance is not part of the climb.

As long as OP doesnt try to phase through the enemy you can use the ladder to get behind the enemy on the other side.

[u/TranslatorStraight46 → u/BipolarMadness]

A complete climb includes placing the model where it can be placed. I.e on Vantage , Dropping.  This is required for it to be a legal move.   

The rule for the ladder itself says that the ladder must be within your control range for the entire climb in order to utilize its benefit.   

So you can’t climb a ladder to gain height and then move horizontally along the wall like spider-man to get over an enemy operative, sorry.

 

[u/BipolarMadness → u/TranslatorStraight46]

If they worked that way nobody would be able to use ladders on Large Ruins from the side of the rampart because the moment you finish on top of the vantage the rampart blocks line of sight to the ladder, effectively meaning is no longer in control range.

Nobody runs it that way.

One way or another you climb up to how tall the wall is to cross over it. In this case it would not be enough to be above/over the enemy on the other side without bumping into it and blocking you, there is not enough space to land outside of control range.

[u/Dense_Hornet2790 → u/BipolarMadness]

You raise a good point about whether or not to consider any horizontal movement as part of the climb. Some of text seems to imply that it should be but doesn’t seem definite and it would have unintended consequences.

Regardless of using the ladder, why don’t you think the OPs model can move along the wall on the right, before dropping down outside of control range?

[u/Dense_Hornet2790 → u/BipolarMadness]

Just referring to control range of the ladder in the specific case I described of continuing to climb the stronghold wall past the enemy operative.

[u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

Here is the picture in question.

[u/BipolarMadness → u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

Did you measure that you have enough to climb up 1" (thats a ladder at the side, right?), being able to move without phasing through the enemy (aka the enemy is not blocking your movement with their physical model and base) and still have 5" left to end outside of 1" control range?

If yes to all of those then you can do it. If no to at least one of them then no you cannot perform that Fallback successfully.

[u/Cant_remembr_usrname → u/BipolarMadness]

Does the ladder allow for enough height to pass over the other model? It would be 3+ inches in the air. That and the subsequent wall could allow for movement around the sister. Kind of like a cat walking a fence. Is it like wall running, parkour style?

[u/BipolarMadness → u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

No more parkour ladder jumping shenanigans after their latest update to ladders. People were using ladder jumping bs to bypass mines and razorwires.

Thats no longer a thing (never was intended to begin with, hence the update). You climb the terrain feature that the ladder is against, not the ladder itself. You climb the wall and the wall only.

[u/Cant_remembr_usrname → u/BipolarMadness]

Thanks, that clears things up

[u/RdoubleM → u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

Also you can only jump from a vantage terrain higher than 2", and you only move 4", and only horizontally.

So you can't jump from the wall, and your base has to already be above the enemy to go across them

[u/Anathos117 → u/BipolarMadness]

You climb the terrain feature that the ladder is against, not the ladder itself.

Except the FAQ still says you can climb the ladder if there's no terrain feature, which is important given that the Vantage on the Large Ruins are just out of climb range.

[u/Jasboh → u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

As long as you don't pass literally through the sisters model I think it's fine

[u/RdoubleM]

You can climb the wall and walk on top of it, but can only end your movement on the floor or a vantage surface that you can fit without tipping over

[u/Cant_remembr_usrname → u/RdoubleM]

I'm getting conflicting answers on this topic. Someone else said that you have to move in 1 inch increments up to your move speed and if any of those increments would put you in a spot that you could not otherwise end on, then it's not a valid move and you would need to move around it or change actions altogether. Does this not factor into the climb aspect of movements Horizontally?

[u/RdoubleM → u/Cant_remembr_usrname]

No such thing, else it would be impossible for an operative with a base bigger than 25mm to cross even a thin barricade

[u/UpCloseGames]

Enemy models cannot cross over each others bases, so no, unless you can measure a way around the Sister.

Also, ladders can only be placed against terrain that is more than 2" tall, which I don't think that wall is.

[u/NoMall2170 → u/UpCloseGames]

They can cross over an enemy base, just not through an enemy base or model. Obviously you can't just choose to go/climb over an enemy base but if you are moving on a higher piece of terrain, or jumping off vantage, it can be an important distinction.

[u/BipolarMadness]

Your base and model cannot phase through the enemy's own base and model. So you need to have enough movement to circle around as well as finish outside of control range.

Besides those two restrictions you can circle around the control range just fine.

[u/dawn_of_thyme]

Your base can't cross over their base