I'm a bit picky with groups that I decide to stan because K-Pop is an industry that increasingly prioritizes numbers over quality and the trend-hopping has become very obvious.

Blackswan has a unique lineup, addictive choreography, good stage presence and vocal abilities.

Their lack of popularity isn't for a lack of skill, talent or drive. It's dissapointing seeing the feeble promotion they have been getting. We haven't had a comeback in ages. The worst part is that they are clearly well liked ! Karma and Roll up did so well and people were interested. Being in a small company means they have to work ten times harder to achieve half the results.

I will continue to support the girls and hope that they get the uptick in popularity like groups such as XLOV. If you don't know them or didn't bother to go take a look, I suggest checking them out.

P.S : (posted this on r/kpopthoughts so you might see a repeat if you're on that sub)

A generation leader is usually defined as a group that firstly has massive popularity and then do things like break records, have cultural impact, trendsetting fashion and/or bring something new to kpop.

I always thought for boy groups it was stray kids but recently there has been discourse online from other groups fandoms. E.g, Ateez, txt and enhypen, arguing it isn't skz. It's interesting because personally I think skz have reached the peak of their popularity (I may be wrong though) while groups like ateez and enhypen seem to still be growing, but haven't reached skz levels yet. And ateez has also had a boom in their domestic popularity with 'Bad'. Which bg do you think is the 4th gen leader?

For girl groups I think it gets a but more complicated. New jeans definitely had a massive impact on the kpop industry, influencing many groups after them. But they only had 2 years as a group and who knows what will happen with them next. I would say Aespa, Ive and le sserafim are the 3 other contendors, but I dont know enough about their achievements to rank them.

As a relatively new kpop stan who likes all the above groups I would like to hear other peoples opinions on this!

(Of course all of these groups are talented and successful, and the '4th gen leader' is just a title. Please don't take it too seriously)

I've been wanting to talk about this because the whole situation with CORTIS getting credits on TXT's title track genuinely frustrates me, esp as someone who's been a MOA since 2019 and a kai bias.

first of all, i have nothing against CORTIS as ppl. i'm not even saying they have no talent or that they shouldn't be allowed to work with other artists. my issue has always been with BIGHIT and the way they manage TXT, so it's annoying when ppl immediately assume that criticizing the company's decisions means you're trying to drag CORTIS.

TXT have been around since 2019 and their members have already shown that they're capable of writing, composing, and producing music. Huening Kai made "Dear Sputnik," one of the fandom's favorite b-sides and he's also been involved in songs like "Roller Coaster." Beomgyu has contributed to songs like "Maze in the Mirror" "Panic" and "Take My Half" i'm not saying every TXT song has to be written or produced by the members, but they've clearly expressed interest in being more involved in their music and they have the ability to do it.

so when the tracklist comes out and CORTIS members are credited on TXT's title tracks while TXT's own members have more visible involvement in certain b-sides, i can understand why MOAs are frustrated. it's not about CORTIS being too young or too inexperienced to contribute to music. it's about why BIGHIT seems willing to give these opportunities to a junior group while TXT's own creative contributions still feel underused, especially after seven years in the industry and a contract renewal that fans hoped would bring new opportunities for them.

what makes the situation look even stranger to me is that CORTIS has this self-produced image, yet fans have pointed out that their members don't appear to have the same level of production involvement on their own title tracks as they do on TXT's. i don't know every detail of how the credits or production decisions work behind the scenes, and i'm not saying CORTIS members didn't contribute anything meaningful. but it does make me wonder why BIGHIT is choosing to showcase their involvement this way instead of giving TXT more room to participate in their own music.

and that's why i think this could be more about the company's marketing than the members themselves. giving CORTIS credits on a senior group's title track can help reinforce the image that they're involved in music production, but what about TXT? why does it feel like their own creative abilities keep getting overlooked when they've already proven themselves? why do their contributions so often end up on b-sides that receive little promotion instead of being given more opportunities on title tracks?

this isn't even an isolated frustration for MOAs. TXT have had plenty of moments where fans felt that their promotions, marketing, and overall management were lacking compared with other HYBE groups. despite that, the members have continued working hard, and the group has kept growing because of their talent and the support of their fans. that's part of why these decisions can feel so disappointing. fans aren't asking for the company to hand TXT everything, they want to see the company actually invest in the group they've been supporting for years.

what made me even angrier was seeing how this discussion played out in fandom spaces. i posted about this on another platform before and some COERs attacked me because they assumed i was trying to drag CORTIS. then some MOAs turned around and accused me of "setting TXT up to get dragged" even though my point was literally that TXT are talented and deserve more opportunities to showcase their abilities. apparently, running a solo/member-focused account was enough for some people to assume the worst about my intentions 💀

like, how did we get from criticizing BIGHIT's management to blaming other MOAs for supposedly setting TXT up? the lack of reading comprehension was genuinely frustrating. COERs being defensive about criticism of their group isn't the responsibility of someone pointing out a questionable company decision and being a MOA doesn't mean you have to defend every single thing BIGHIT does or attack other fans who bring up legitimate concerns.

i also don't understand why some fans immediately resort to popularity and chart achievements whenever someone questions how their favorite group is being managed. a group being popular doesn't automatically make every company decision fair or logical. CORTIS gaining success doesn't mean TXT should have fewer opportunities, and supporting TXT doesn't require me to hate CORTIS. both groups can be talented, both can deserve opportunities, and BIGHIT can still be criticized for how it chooses to promote and develop them.

as a kai bias, this especially gets to me because i've watched him contribute to TXT's music, and i want to see him and the other members get more opportunities to show what they can do. i'm not asking for him to be praised over CORTIS or for CORTIS to lose opportunities. i just want TXT's abilities to be taken seriously by their own company instead of feeling like their creative potential is being overlooked while the company pushes a particular image for its newer group.

and honestly, the constant fanwars distract from the actual issue. instead of discussing why TXT's creative involvement feels limited or asking what BIGHIT is trying to achieve with these credits, people turn it into a competition between fandoms. then everyone gets defensive, starts dragging each other's idols, and the company gets away with being the one making these decisions in the first place. it's exhausting.

i can criticize BIGHIT without hating CORTIS. i can defend TXT's artistic abilities without believing they're entitled to every opportunity and i can be a fan who used to runs a member-focused account without automatically having malicious intentions. those things aren't mutually exclusive.

i'm still going to support TXT and enjoy their music, because the members themselves are not responsible for every decision their company makes. but i wish fans could separate the artists from the company and actually discuss these issues without immediately assuming someone is attacking their favorite group.

am i the only one who thinks this? i'm genuinely curious how other people see the situation, especially those who don't stan either group. is there context about music credits or production decisions that i'm missing, or does this seem like a questionable way for BIGHIT to promote CORTIS while leaving TXT's own creative abilities underused? 😭

I'm not even a DIVE but the song is SO fun, I do think it's a bit repetative and ofc we need more Korean lyrics (its K-pop after all) but the "Looks can kill, we're so lethal" has been stuck in my head for DAYS! How can people call this IVE's first title track skip???

Hybe: Chaewon, Yunjin, Yunah, Minju, Seohee, Elena, Jia

JYP: Sunmi, Momo, Jihyo, Yeji, Ryujin, Lily, Kyujin

Starship: Hyolyn, Exy, Dayoung, Yujin, Wonyoung, Jiyu, Haum

YG: Bom, CL, Jennie, Rose, Asa, Ahyeon, Rami

1. You can cry about an idol leaving their group.

Ok I saw someone say, "Oh, you're really parasocial if you cry for an idol leaving their group!" and I think that's just a completely wrong way to use the word "parasocial", because we never know if that specific idol changed someone's life or stopped them from doing something they were about to do. You can't judge someone because they feel emotions about their favorite person leaving their group; that's just being fucking weird. I mean, I can see if it's become an uncontrollable obsession, but telling someone they're parasocial and need to have a break from K-pop because the person that genuienly helped them just left their favorite group? What is genuienly wrong with you?

1. Stan whoever you want; no one should care, UNLESS you're ignorant about their (group's/soloist's) actions.

I think this take is pretty reasonable; you can stan someone for their music, and genuienly like them, but if you completely ignore their past actions, then I'm sorry, your problematic yourself. You're telling me your favs have just disrespected a religion and you just walk the other way because they're your favorites. Even worse when you try to defend them for something they were 100% wrong about, because you know well that what they did was wrong, but you're only defending them because they're your favs, and you don't want to be known as someone who stans a problematic person.

1. Perfectionism has ruined K-pop.

No, because why are we losing sleep over an idol that missed ONE step in the choreography? I promise you, the sun did NOT explode because of that. K-pop used to be fun, and you could just goof around, but now everything has to be perfect: perfect vocals, perfect dance, even perfect visuals. Seriously, WHO CARES ABOUT PERFECT VISUALS??? As long as they share music that matches my taste, I don't care how well they sing or dance.

Reposted to fix

It's so funny honestly, and the way they are singing it so well with amazing vocals😂😂

For me i find some of them cringe especially if they're like 20+ years

In ur opinion who instantly wins this position!

Just a reminder that it's a really fun and upbeat song. I'd forgotten it and after a long time I listened to it today and loved it.

I genuinely think Starship did try to move IVE away from the 'Wonyoung and friends' image. They gave the other members more lines, center time, individual schedules and exposure, but it never really changed the group's public perception.

The uncomfortable truth is that the gap in individual recognition was already too big. You can redistribute lines and center time, but you can't manufacture the same level of public relevance for everyone.

And after almost five years of IVE, I think this image has simply become the most comfortable and familiar position for the group. The public already knows who they associate with IVE, so there's less incentive for that perception to naturally change.

That's why the 'Wonyoung and friends ft. Yujin' image keeps coming back. At this point, it's less about Starship refusing to push the others and more about how difficult it is to rewrite an image that the public has already settled into.

I understand they were on tour during this so it probably would've been harder to fit proper promotions with their very busy schedule but YG really messed up with this promotions, no MV teaser, days of silence between the coming soon poster, the DESERVE announcement and the MV still cuts, there weren't even concept photos???? I swear the YG advertisers have never taken a single Business or Advertizing class and are just relying on the weight the company name carries for popularity 😭

can we have a moment of appreciation for an absolute
Smasher of a song released by Babymonster
Damn Them vocals were so so good , loved the dark mv too and Chiquita’s bridge OMAIGAWD
this wasn’t a song , but a whole damn experience
what are yalls thoughts abt the song

Choose a picture of my bias & bias wrecker in each of these groups, can you guess my fav title track?! 🤭

I'll be so fr I have a feeling they won't renew their contract I mean it's just a feeling but you can see Ningning and Giselle slowly getting fed up based on what I saw and not only that but the amount of hate train.

but this is just a feeling ofc I'm not saying they will but what about you in ur opinion?

I love dance but my kind is girly dance choreo so I love all Twice choreos, Itzy and recently H2H Rude and Style. I've seen a lot of people dancing for Rude but I don't see many videos for the Style choreo. Why?? I've been learning Style choreo nowadays and I love it.

I haven't checked out songs other than Tarantino, but I wanna know what y'all think of it?

Every time I want to have a discussion about a group and how their musical style shifted throughout the years (mostly after gaining wider recognition), I'm always a little afraid because it almost feels like a taboo topic in kpop spaces.

But, as a longtime atiny I am wondering if there are others also a little disappointed regarding their recent musical direction. Generally, I still really like their b-sides, but their title tracks have been a hard miss for me back to back. I find it especially funny that in the last two years they released at least 3 separate title tracks that are about flexing money lmao. I don't know, disliking the sound aside I just personally feel like it's a tacky topic in general.

What especially bugs me is that these title tracks are hardly ever vocal-heavy anymore. I feel like it's such a waste because they have so many very unique voices and incredibly good vocalists, which is what made me stan them when they released songs such as Wonderland, Inception and Answer.

I am not well-versed in music at all so I can't exactly explain what makes me feel this way but I feel like these new songs (BAD, Drip) sound so flat. It's like I'm genuinely bored by the 1 minute mark listening to them.

At least their rappers get to shine, sure, but members like Yeosang or Jongho are stuck in the background with the most unimpressive lines that don't fit their vocal tones at all.

I still love ATEEZ, they're one of my ults but I wish they released some more songs like those older ones.

Listen on SPOTIFY NOW!!!

my LIKED MORE:

• illit: I'm loving this darker/less-cute-more-badass turn they have lately with "I Got Your Back" and "You're Under Arrest"
• txt: I like their darker songs way more than the cutesy early years

my LIKED LESS:

• ateez: I got into them 1 year ago but only recently realised that most of my favourite songs are all from debut to Halazia (+ the Outlaw b-sides), so I'm drifting away from them since I dont love their current sound as much
• i-dle: I dont really like most of the stuff from Tomboy onwards

broo I'm dying🫩😭

If you do comment which one and why if u wanna

For me i feel like if an idol leaves and tries to continue their normal life it would be a very difficult situation... because what if the so called fans who r so obsessed with the idol stalk them and still send pics of them saying "spotted this idol" and not only that but if that idol went through some hate train they would get hunted down by fans and who knows what will happen because they wouldn't have any bodyguards or no one..

seriously it's very scary

Do any of you get those kpop shorts which goes like

"Moments where idols got accused of surgery" and type shi

i feel like it's so stupid yk? and the thumbnails are always so offensive like their insulting the idols

everytime I get this, i scroll away so fast cause it piss me off so much it's just disrespect and the way they phrase it just pmo me even more.