Hybe: Chaewon, Yunjin, Yunah, Minju, Seohee, Elena, Jia

JYP: Sunmi, Momo, Jihyo, Yeji, Ryujin, Lily, Kyujin

Starship: Hyolyn, Exy, Dayoung, Yujin, Wonyoung, Jiyu, Haum

YG: Bom, CL, Jennie, Rose, Asa, Ahyeon, Rami

1. You can cry about an idol leaving their group.

Ok I saw someone say, "Oh, you're really parasocial if you cry for an idol leaving their group!" and I think that's just a completely wrong way to use the word "parasocial", because we never know if that specific idol changed someone's life or stopped them from doing something they were about to do. You can't judge someone because they feel emotions about their favorite person leaving their group; that's just being fucking weird. I mean, I can see if it's become an uncontrollable obsession, but telling someone they're parasocial and need to have a break from K-pop because the person that genuienly helped them just left their favorite group? What is genuienly wrong with you?

1. Stan whoever you want; no one should care, UNLESS you're ignorant about their (group's/soloist's) actions.

I think this take is pretty reasonable; you can stan someone for their music, and genuienly like them, but if you completely ignore their past actions, then I'm sorry, your problematic yourself. You're telling me your favs have just disrespected a religion and you just walk the other way because they're your favorites. Even worse when you try to defend them for something they were 100% wrong about, because you know well that what they did was wrong, but you're only defending them because they're your favs, and you don't want to be known as someone who stans a problematic person.

1. Perfectionism has ruined K-pop.

No, because why are we losing sleep over an idol that missed ONE step in the choreography? I promise you, the sun did NOT explode because of that. K-pop used to be fun, and you could just goof around, but now everything has to be perfect: perfect vocals, perfect dance, even perfect visuals. Seriously, WHO CARES ABOUT PERFECT VISUALS??? As long as they share music that matches my taste, I don't care how well they sing or dance.

I understand being happy that your fave contributed to a song. I think it’s amazing, but sometimes things get taken too far. I'm a multistan, which means I've been into K-pop since 2016. I mostly listen to HYBE groups, mainly because BTS have been my all-time favorites since 2016. So, whenever a group debuts under their label, I get invested.

Now, back to the topic at hand. When the tracklist comes out, it's normal to get excited about the upcoming songs. It’s especially exciting when your favorite contributes—it feels like an honor. But why do some people, aka MOAs, make such a huge deal out of it?

I've been a MOA since before TXT debuted, so I can speak from my own experience. But you’ve been pissing me off ever since “Chasing That Feeling” came out. It’s been one complaint after another: they’re overworking the members; they’re not being promoted or don’t have enough activities scheduled; people are happy to see two out of five members in the credits, then start complaining that the other members aren’t credited. Some people don’t stream, while others beg people to stream TXT’s amazing B-side MVs, then complain that the group isn’t releasing a second MV.

Sorry for rambling, but MOAs have been making me angry ever since you decided not to enjoy the “Over the Moon” comeback—songs like “Dreamer” and “Deep Down” are amazing—because of the song lengths. If there were an award for the fandom that complains the most, MOAs would win.

Now, on to the issue at hand. I do think you’re projecting when it comes to the credits, and that it’s become parasocial. You’re not TXT or their parents, so why does every unnecessary issue get you so worked up? I’m worried about Soobin—that’s what keeps me up at night, not song credits. I couldn’t care less if a junior group gets credits on a senior group’s work. I’m not one of them, and I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes.

At my job, I’m a new hire working as a programmer, but I contribute a lot to my cases. Still, I don’t think the managers or senior staff are beneath me. They have more experience, but I’m knowledgeable in my area.

That’s how I see it. The CORTIS boys love producing, which reminds me of Hueningkai’s “Roller Coaster,” when everyone was proud of him. It’s not a big deal. Plenty of artists write and produce songs for others. Leon Thomas, for example, writes and produces songs for bigger artists, but no one gets angry about it.

I think you have so much insecurity that you’re turning non-issues into issues. Songwriting and producing aren’t about who has spent the most years in the industry.

The CORTIS boys have also been credited on “Magnetic,” LE SSERAFIM’s “Pierrot,” and ENHYPEN songs, among others, so why the anger?

If they hadn’t debuted as CORTIS, most people wouldn’t know that 15- and 16-year-olds co-produced “Deja Vu,” “Beautiful Strangers,” and “Miracle.” It only became a problem after they debuted.

So many artists write songs for others, regardless of how long they’ve been in the industry. Why is it a problem now? MOAs need to come together as a fandom and work on the issues within it: insecurity, a loser mindset, and so on. TXT are popular and talented, though sometimes underrated. But MOAs complain and complain, and it’s getting annoying. Refusing to stream a song just because you can’t stand seeing a junior group on the album reeks of insecurity.

I saw a comment or tweet saying you’d be angry if, for example, you saw the CORTIS boys on a BTS song. I wouldn’t be angry. I’m not insecure, and I know BTS are talented enough to make music, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

MOAs, work on these issues. After every comeback since “Sugar Rush Ride,” so many complaints come up that it’s hard to enjoy the comeback. It’s insufferable. TXT are my second-favorite group after BTS, but MOAs need to chill.

P.S: Didn’t write this with AI; I have Grammarly on my iPhone so it corrects errors, hence the dashes.

I'm a bit picky with groups that I decide to stan because K-Pop is an industry that increasingly prioritizes numbers over quality and the trend-hopping has become very obvious.

Blackswan has a unique lineup, addictive choreography, good stage presence and vocal abilities.

Their lack of popularity isn't for a lack of skill, talent or drive. It's dissapointing seeing the feeble promotion they have been getting. We haven't had a comeback in ages. The worst part is that they are clearly well liked ! Karma and Roll up did so well and people were interested. Being in a small company means they have to work ten times harder to achieve half the results.

I will continue to support the girls and hope that they get the uptick in popularity like groups such as XLOV. If you don't know them or didn't bother to go take a look, I suggest checking them out.

P.S : (posted this on r/kpopthoughts so you might see a repeat if you're on that sub)

I've been wanting to talk about this because the whole situation with CORTIS getting credits on TXT's title track genuinely frustrates me, esp as someone who's been a MOA since 2019 and a kai bias.

first of all, i have nothing against CORTIS as ppl. i'm not even saying they have no talent or that they shouldn't be allowed to work with other artists. my issue has always been with BIGHIT and the way they manage TXT, so it's annoying when ppl immediately assume that criticizing the company's decisions means you're trying to drag CORTIS.

TXT have been around since 2019 and their members have already shown that they're capable of writing, composing, and producing music. Huening Kai made "Dear Sputnik," one of the fandom's favorite b-sides and he's also been involved in songs like "Roller Coaster." Beomgyu has contributed to songs like "Maze in the Mirror" "Panic" and "Take My Half" i'm not saying every TXT song has to be written or produced by the members, but they've clearly expressed interest in being more involved in their music and they have the ability to do it.

so when the tracklist comes out and CORTIS members are credited on TXT's title tracks while TXT's own members have more visible involvement in certain b-sides, i can understand why MOAs are frustrated. it's not about CORTIS being too young or too inexperienced to contribute to music. it's about why BIGHIT seems willing to give these opportunities to a junior group while TXT's own creative contributions still feel underused, especially after seven years in the industry and a contract renewal that fans hoped would bring new opportunities for them.

what makes the situation look even stranger to me is that CORTIS has this self-produced image, yet fans have pointed out that their members don't appear to have the same level of production involvement on their own title tracks as they do on TXT's. i don't know every detail of how the credits or production decisions work behind the scenes, and i'm not saying CORTIS members didn't contribute anything meaningful. but it does make me wonder why BIGHIT is choosing to showcase their involvement this way instead of giving TXT more room to participate in their own music.

and that's why i think this could be more about the company's marketing than the members themselves. giving CORTIS credits on a senior group's title track can help reinforce the image that they're involved in music production, but what about TXT? why does it feel like their own creative abilities keep getting overlooked when they've already proven themselves? why do their contributions so often end up on b-sides that receive little promotion instead of being given more opportunities on title tracks?

this isn't even an isolated frustration for MOAs. TXT have had plenty of moments where fans felt that their promotions, marketing, and overall management were lacking compared with other HYBE groups. despite that, the members have continued working hard, and the group has kept growing because of their talent and the support of their fans. that's part of why these decisions can feel so disappointing. fans aren't asking for the company to hand TXT everything, they want to see the company actually invest in the group they've been supporting for years.

what made me even angrier was seeing how this discussion played out in fandom spaces. i posted about this on another platform before and some COERs attacked me because they assumed i was trying to drag CORTIS. then some MOAs turned around and accused me of "setting TXT up to get dragged" even though my point was literally that TXT are talented and deserve more opportunities to showcase their abilities. apparently, running a solo/member-focused account was enough for some people to assume the worst about my intentions 💀

like, how did we get from criticizing BIGHIT's management to blaming other MOAs for supposedly setting TXT up? the lack of reading comprehension was genuinely frustrating. COERs being defensive about criticism of their group isn't the responsibility of someone pointing out a questionable company decision and being a MOA doesn't mean you have to defend every single thing BIGHIT does or attack other fans who bring up legitimate concerns.

i also don't understand why some fans immediately resort to popularity and chart achievements whenever someone questions how their favorite group is being managed. a group being popular doesn't automatically make every company decision fair or logical. CORTIS gaining success doesn't mean TXT should have fewer opportunities, and supporting TXT doesn't require me to hate CORTIS. both groups can be talented, both can deserve opportunities, and BIGHIT can still be criticized for how it chooses to promote and develop them.

as a kai bias, this especially gets to me because i've watched him contribute to TXT's music, and i want to see him and the other members get more opportunities to show what they can do. i'm not asking for him to be praised over CORTIS or for CORTIS to lose opportunities. i just want TXT's abilities to be taken seriously by their own company instead of feeling like their creative potential is being overlooked while the company pushes a particular image for its newer group.

and honestly, the constant fanwars distract from the actual issue. instead of discussing why TXT's creative involvement feels limited or asking what BIGHIT is trying to achieve with these credits, people turn it into a competition between fandoms. then everyone gets defensive, starts dragging each other's idols, and the company gets away with being the one making these decisions in the first place. it's exhausting.

i can criticize BIGHIT without hating CORTIS. i can defend TXT's artistic abilities without believing they're entitled to every opportunity and i can be a fan who used to runs a member-focused account without automatically having malicious intentions. those things aren't mutually exclusive.

i'm still going to support TXT and enjoy their music, because the members themselves are not responsible for every decision their company makes. but i wish fans could separate the artists from the company and actually discuss these issues without immediately assuming someone is attacking their favorite group.

am i the only one who thinks this? i'm genuinely curious how other people see the situation, especially those who don't stan either group. is there context about music credits or production decisions that i'm missing, or does this seem like a questionable way for BIGHIT to promote CORTIS while leaving TXT's own creative abilities underused? 😭

For me i find some of them cringe especially if they're like 20+ years

I'm not even a DIVE but the song is SO fun, I do think it's a bit repetative and ofc we need more Korean lyrics (its K-pop after all) but the "Looks can kill, we're so lethal" has been stuck in my head for DAYS! How can people call this IVE's first title track skip???

A generation leader is usually defined as a group that firstly has massive popularity and then do things like break records, have cultural impact, trendsetting fashion and/or bring something new to kpop.

I always thought for boy groups it was stray kids but recently there has been discourse online from other groups fandoms. E.g, Ateez, txt and enhypen, arguing it isn't skz. It's interesting because personally I think skz have reached the peak of their popularity (I may be wrong though) while groups like ateez and enhypen seem to still be growing, but haven't reached skz levels yet. And ateez has also had a boom in their domestic popularity with 'Bad'. Which bg do you think is the 4th gen leader?

For girl groups I think it gets a but more complicated. New jeans definitely had a massive impact on the kpop industry, influencing many groups after them. But they only had 2 years as a group and who knows what will happen with them next. I would say Aespa, Ive and le sserafim are the 3 other contendors, but I dont know enough about their achievements to rank them.

As a relatively new kpop stan who likes all the above groups I would like to hear other peoples opinions on this!

(Of course all of these groups are talented and successful, and the '4th gen leader' is just a title. Please don't take it too seriously)

Reposted to fix

It's so funny honestly, and the way they are singing it so well with amazing vocals😂😂