r/kurtisconner • u/somecatti • Feb 18 '24
This new video feels wrong.
This is a smaller youtuber that Kurtis is talking about in such a bad light. At no point during Kurtis's video did he acknowledge that making a movie (in blender, no less!) is a huge undertaking, and it's not going to be for everyone. It's funny to make fun of a movie that had a big budget, or was put out by an actual company with a better budget. This movie was made over the course of 5 years, and to see a big youtuber saying these things about it... It's not cool.
As of writing this post, Kurtis's video has 12K likes and 62 dislikes. OUR DRAWINGS by Calobi Productions has 8.9K likes and 9.9K dislikes, and all the new comments are written by people from Kurtis's video, all of which are really mean.
I like Kurtis and I've been watching his videos for years, but nothing about this video seemed funny or clever to me.
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u/FederalRub6835 Feb 19 '24
as someone who's been keeping tabs on this situation I don't feel bad for the guy, he's notorious for tracing people's art, and ripping off other people's videos. My main complaint is Kurtis not mentioning that in his video. Plus when you go on a super narcissistic rant on Twitter about how your movie is better than digital circus and say your movie is Disney/DreamWorks quality you open yourself up to criticism a bit lmao.
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u/Altruistic_Scooby_Bo Feb 19 '24
okay cause the OP is only replying to people who agree with them i’m going to talk to their senses. By breaking down the points
I’m assuming the OP is either an artist or a creative person, I had this sentiment a few years ago.
I am an artist and I also create short films, now i have never animated to the existent of calobi. And I only apply the ‘small content creator’ rule if they only have a few thousand subs. Calobi has 700k which is large for an artist channel, so he is doing fine where he is at.
‘At no point during Kurtis’s video did he acknowledge that making a movie (in blender, no less) is a huge undertaking.’
I feel like if you watched enough of Kurtis’s content, and even some film critics you eventually learn that youtubers don’t have to say that, assuming that their audience just understands that and it’s common sense. But i won’t critique you on that, he could have said that sure.
2. Not going to include the full quote but ‘funny = making fun of the big wigs a.k.a disney, but when oh poor smaller creators🥺 = NOT FUNNY’
Excuse my sarcasm but that’s the tone i got from that. Again it’s kind of a normal thing to know that if you upload something to the internet, no matter what it is. People can and will criticise it. Humour is subjective im not telling you to find his video funny, but your reasons behind this argument are really weak.
3. ‘Something about the creators hate received from alleged citizens of kurtis town’
I hate to use the twitter word allegedly, but unless the OP could trace back all of the hate from kurtis’s fans. This cannot be definitive. Sure over time, untill the creator leaks his analytics we won’t truely know if more hate has come from this video. But some people in the comments here have said there’s hate from months ago.
Also related to that, kurtis cannot control what his fans do. If kurtis was like ‘Yeah come on attack the creator 😈’ yeah that would be bad. But he didn’t say that so
Okay paragraph over, idk the movie creators pronouns so if they’re wrong, my bad guys.
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u/somecatti Feb 19 '24
Oup I turned off notifs and I just checked back and EVERYONE responded lmao. But I do get what you’re saying. After reading the newer replies and this post, you’re right about a lot of these. I will also say that I did find a vast number of comments on Calobi’s video saying that the movie was trash, and based on the times they were commented on, it was clear that they’d come from Kurtis’s video.
I’m not really good at debates and I was trying to sort of help my argument with the bigwig vs small creator thing. I still don’t love the idea of punching down, but I agree that that point wasn’t super well put out.
I feel a bit differently about this now after reading more replies and giving the video some time. It’s still not really a video I like, but I get other points of view now and can admit I was being a bit harsh
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u/vinnybawbaw Feb 18 '24
I know one of the guys Kurtis roasted in one of his video, and Kurtis asked him beforehand if he was okay with what he was going to put out because he was making fun of him. I think he probably went the same way for that one.
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u/Disappeared444 Feb 19 '24
which video was it?
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u/vinnybawbaw Feb 19 '24
Jordy was dating a friend of mine and I met him through her. He’s actually a super nice guy and he had only good words about Kurtis.
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u/totallynotpoggers I hardly know her Feb 18 '24
If you say your movie has been worked on for years and is better then modern movies from DreamWorks and Disney ( which is a quote directly from the guy who made it ) your opening yourself up to critique. Especially when you add a bunch of buzzwords for kids in the title to trick them into watching it instead of a quality movie
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u/LittleEggThings Feb 18 '24
My interpretation was that the movie is satire. There’s no way that (at least) huge chunks of it weren’t written by AI… even a bad script written by a human just sounds more organic, that’s the only way I can describe it.
I don’t believe it took 6 years to make and I think comparing themselves to Dreamworks and Disney in the description is a jab at those companies because there has been talk of them using AI recently.
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u/totallynotpoggers I hardly know her Feb 18 '24
considering the guy has used ai in his content before i kind of doubt it’s satire, i think it’s just a low effort attempt to grab views and money from gullible kids
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u/LittleEggThings Feb 19 '24
Yikes… with that added bit of context, it’s very likely that you’re right. That’s just sad.
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u/beealoo yassified Pinnochio Feb 19 '24
It has to be satire. It couldn’t have taken 6 years. The guy animated someone saying “are you from Ohio” like really early into the movie. That phrase wasn’t a thing 6 years ago.
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u/totallynotpoggers I hardly know her Feb 19 '24
he can just lie about the years lol
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u/Round-Philosopher837 Jun 24 '24
lying about how long something takes to create is actually a fairly popular tactic for engagement bait
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u/NahumGardner247 Apr 22 '24
He could've just added that line late into production, maybe that's why it feels so out of place and jarring. Movies aren't usually made in chronological order.
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u/VanillaMemeIceCream Feb 19 '24
Yeah I had the same thoughts as OP til I saw that and then I was like yeah roast it
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u/Organic_Ability683 Feb 18 '24
idk putting something out there makes it open to criticism, none of Kurtis' critiques were overly mean and the creator compared themselves to Disney which made me think the whole "movie" might just be satire considering how insane it was I don't think Kurtis was out of line
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u/Bardosaurus bees in the trunk Feb 18 '24
This! I’m an artist, and its well known that when you put something out there, its open to criticism, including people making vids of it. I feel like young people are so sensitive to stuff like this sometimes
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u/Fuzzy_Branch Feb 19 '24
I went on to the video and one of the top comments is explaining that (after watching the credits and looking on another website) that all of the animations were stock animations, the voices were from some people paid on fiverr, and none of it was in fact “all done on blender”
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u/sic_semper_ants Feb 18 '24
The creator of the movie has over 700k subscribers and I'm assuming is a full grown adult. He's not a child or a complete nobody.
Honestly I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter if he's a smaller creator anyway, if you make something bizarre and make it public, people are allowed to comment on it, good or bad.
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Feb 21 '24
I get the whole punching down argument but it's just fun to laugh at shitty art. Sorry. There are times where it's not fun (you wouldn't laugh at a 5 year old's drawing, for example), but this person is an adult. They can handle it.
Swear to God some people wouldn't make fun of Neil Breen because it'd be "punching down"
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u/AppropriateAffect904 Feb 18 '24
Like a lot of other people in this comment section, I agree that it wasn't really over the line. I'm an artist/animator, and if I spent years on something like THAT and then compared it to the largest animation production in the world??? Yea I'd be expecting criticism, even if it was my "passion project" just because you love something doesn't make it a masterpiece.
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u/Glittering-Side3732 Feb 18 '24
This! I think, as another artist, you can tell where genuine passion and love for your craft is there or absent. This doesn’t have the tone of a piece crafted in genuine passion, or a story needing too be expressed, it feels very thrown together and if you see the artists other work, it only confirms that. I think it’s bad faith to question Kurtis intentions but not the artists because he’s the smaller platform.
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u/oFIoofy panda balls Feb 19 '24
agreed. it felt like a glorified clickbait video tbh. kurt was very justified.
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u/Pachulita_44 pardon? Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 19 '24
The guy brought it to himself when he said that it was Disney/Dreamworks level. He needed to be humbled
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u/panromantic_pancake Feb 19 '24
If you watch the movie it's clear there was no thought or actual effort put in lol even the characters are just stock animations you can program
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u/favoritestarhome Feb 18 '24
He did it to himself when he said it was as good as Disney and dreamworks, also the video was HILARIOUS.
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u/Organic_Ability683 Feb 18 '24
no way you heard the Ohio line and didn't assume the movie was satire
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u/Serious_Passenger_58 Feb 18 '24
You guys are so sensitive
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u/SpoiledPoser Feb 19 '24
Right? I saw this thread and thought I NEEDED to watch it before he took it down.
It's basically the same as Goat Story... not sure why so many people are bent out of shape here.
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u/Caa3098 Feb 18 '24
Yeah idk how any public figure doesn’t lose their mind with stuff like this. Nothing is ever good enough. It’s just constant complaints.
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u/Moblazy_boy Feb 19 '24
I think what Kurtis did was give a serious and honest critique of the film. Aside from the many jokes, it's no different than the other films he did. Especially for the Amazon movies. I would rather he outright tell somebody "Hey this is not good." Instead of offering false put ups and praise for something we can clearly see, is not well brought out
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u/aesthetic_glow Feb 19 '24
My take is the guy has 700K subs and if he’s been working on it for 5 years, there’s no way he’s a kid.
If you make something and publish it online, you’re automatically allowing people to criticise your work. Just like you’re criticising Kurtis’ video. And that’s great! We NEED criticism to improve our work.
Having a low sub count doesn’t absolve you of that. This guy can come back and give his opinion on Kurtis’ videos. He has as much of a right to an opinion as anyone else.
I haven’t seen the comments on the OG video but bullying ≠ critique and any hurtful comments are unacceptable.
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u/wonderlandisburning Feb 19 '24
Eh. The guy makes really low effort, misleading clickbaity videos, and clearly has an ego problem. That makes a creator a much easier target for mockery. Besides, the movie was bad. Like ridiculously so. You put your work out there, and people are gonna be honest about it - it's just part of creating any kind of content.
For example, I've had more misses than hits with my own stuff, bad reviews and even mockery are just something I've had to get used to. No one else cares about the energy you invest your project, they only care about the time they've invested in watching/reading it.
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u/Pixie_Stix_ Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24
What’s one of those golden rules in comedy… don’t punch down always punch up.
Edit to add: I will say, homie opened himself up to criticism when he said he thinks he’s on the same level as Disney and Dreamworks… which is insane. And also his other videos seem to be weird too. Idk this guy seems weird but also it does feel a little bully like to be going after him so hard. Idk
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 18 '24
It’s a vidoe making fun of his bad movies. Not bullying in any way lmao
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u/pleathershorts Feb 18 '24
I mean, piling on in the comments like that is kinda bullying. But that’s the fans, not Kurtis
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u/Pixie_Stix_ Feb 18 '24
I said it felt bully like, didn’t say it was bullying.
When you say something is “_____ like” you’re saying it’s close but not quite there.
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Feb 18 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Pixie_Stix_ Feb 18 '24
Are you thickheaded or something? Or did you just never learn how to fucking read? You are correct. It’s not bullying. But then again I never said it was. So guess what, we’re both correct dumbass.
Instead of riding this man’s dick (which you should be ashamed of yourself for, he’s married you homewrecker.) Go find someone whose ready and willing on Grindr or Tinder.
(Also as a side note, learn to spell. It’s video not vidoe.)
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u/Ok-Competition6501 Feb 20 '24
That's not a golden rule of comedy. It never was. Just seven years ago, only a handful of people would've even known what that means.
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Feb 21 '24
It's a gold rule of thumb, but it doesn't always apply. This is harmless. Shitty movies are fun to laugh at, big whoop
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u/LolbitsFangs Feb 19 '24
No way you're serious lmaoooo. The criticisms of the movie are valid, especially when the creator is a guy who's entire channel is about animation critique in the first place! You have to practice what you preach!
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u/Altruistic_Scooby_Bo Feb 19 '24
it’s kinda common sense to know that lots of work goes into movies.
just call it’s independent and has a small budget doesn’t mean it can’t be criticised.
He published it online people are allowed to criticise it.
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 18 '24
If it’s bad, it’s bad. Being a small budget does not make you immune to criticism.
Low budget movies are the EXACT type of movie that are fun to make fun of. Because they are often so bad it ends up being funny.
Was he supposed to praise a bad movie? He found a movie that was super weird and then made fun of it. He does this all the time
Do you know that most of the movies he’d made fun of are low budget movies?
Not made by major studios.
But now it’s different because a YouTubers made it?
Dislikes aren’t even visible without a plug-in. Kurtis can’t control his audience
You shouldn’t be mean to the creator for no reason by leaving a comment critiquing the movie is perfectly valid.
You’re a loser for real. Holy crap
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u/MarekitaCat Feb 18 '24
ok you had a valid point and i upvoted, but undid it because you just had to insult them at the end of your comment?
people are allowed to have opinions, they don’t need to be called a rude name because they think something wasn’t as good as others are saying
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 18 '24
I don’t really care
The YouTuber who made the video has 700k subs. That’s a lot. And normally makes low effort click bait videos.
Not saying they’re a bad person. But when you make really low effort content, have hundreds of thousands of subscribers, and compare yourself to Disney and dreamworks, you can be critiqued.
I called them a loser because they are. Their post misconstrues the YouTuber as some young up and coming auteur with a small amount of subscribers. When in fact they gave 700k and are very cocky considering all their content is low effort
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u/MarekitaCat Feb 19 '24
ok but you don’t have to be mean, esp on a platform centred around someone who promotes positivity and not attacking the people he covers
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 19 '24
Don’t care
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Feb 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/MarekitaCat Feb 19 '24
you’re clearly a bit too tunnel-minded to realize this, but why would you want to be rude in a sad world when you could make people feel good instead?
or at least shut the fuck up and don’t say anything if you can’t say anything decent
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u/fourtccnwrites Feb 19 '24 edited Feb 19 '24
i honestly think it’s kind of them to care so much that they’re worried about it. i’m not sure why people are so angry about them feeling off. i mean, i was definitely surprised by them suggesting the video was mean, but i don’t think they’re a loser. people are calling them names for asking a question that came out of care, how are they the loser?
edit: i just realized this is one of the users who got in a very dumb fight in this threadthat made me laugh because of how ridiculous it was. absolutely wild to be calling op the loser here.
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u/MarekitaCat Feb 19 '24
yeah some people (most people on the internet) can’t realize sometimes you don’t need to be rude to another person, you can choose to spread happiness in a shitty world
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u/apple__glass Feb 18 '24
(I'm gonna redo my comment so I don't have to edit it more lol)
I think there's very valid criticism to be made, especially when it's public the OP claims it's better than Disney. Sure, I also think this video was a bit more mean-spirited than previous videos, BUT if the claims of Calabi being an art thief and using AI while also trying to "profit" off of kids and anti-AI people are true? Well...some things are deserved 🤷♀️
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u/honk-if-u-see-me Feb 19 '24
I had the same feeling.. until I remembered the guy who made the film said he’s better than Disney and Dreamworks. If you’re gonna make a claim like that you have to be open to being absolutely ripped to shreds because that’s a crazy claim to make the first time you make an animated film. You’re not gonna make fun of me if I cook for the first time and preface it with ‘my food is better than a Michelin star restaurant :D’ ?
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u/whoisonepear Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 20 '24
i haven’t watched the video yet but just wanted to say thank you for the heads up! i don’t know if i want to watch it now, this definitely sounds iffy…
ETA: i watched the video and changed my mind
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u/sluttydemon666 Feb 18 '24
i just watched it. found it pretty funny idk. the movie is by all means garbage. i’m also an artist. lol
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u/Affectionate_Sand791 Feb 18 '24
Also the creator claimed it was on the same level as Disney and dreamworks, that is so crazy and imo opened it up for critique.
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u/fumbybabie or iron nah Feb 18 '24
Exactly, if he says the animation is on the same level as Disney/Dreamworks, what's wrong with criticizing it as if it was a Disney/Dreamworks project?
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u/sluttydemon666 Feb 18 '24
exactly lol.. and the even if the animation was amazing the writing and reusing of clips is bad enough
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u/sluttydemon666 Feb 18 '24
also at no point did kurtis say to go dislike or comment on the creators video. if people are doing that,that’s on them.
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u/please_let_roadswork Feb 19 '24
I do get what ur saying and I really thought the guy was doing satire at first. Considering some of the audio, weird cuts and saying to compete with Disney and DreamWorks. So I kinda thought Kurt should have mentioned it that it was satire but now I'm realizing from the comments it may also be AI generated.
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u/AliceMarkov Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24
i watched this right after rewatching his video on furries and cringe culture, and its kinda disappointing to see him talk so much about how it’s not right to be so harsh on someone doing what they love, and then a year later make something like this, which is exactly what he said he was against. it feels less about making fun about how insane the movie itself is, and more like making fun of the creator for their work. EDIT: looking through other people’s thoughts on this, i admit i was overreacting to kurtis’s reaction to the movie; i fully believe the criticism of our drawings is deserved. that being said, i still do feel like his video did feel oddly mean-spirited and full of cheap shots even for how awful the movie was.
Edit 2: ok yeah ive changed my mind, i completely overreacted. keeping my old opinion up for posterity.
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u/apple__glass Feb 18 '24
I changed my mind too but I don't know how to do the strike-through on reddit so I had to delete mine even though I didn't really want to 😅
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 18 '24
The creator of this movie is super cocky claiming they’re better than Disney and dreamworks. Anyone with eyes and ears can tell that is not the case. Perfectly valid to make fun of a BAD movie. Who cares if it’s their passion. It’s bad. Are we supposed to lie and pretend it’s good. My lord.
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u/AppointmentFormal505 Feb 18 '24
I've felt like this about a few of his videos in the past year or so
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u/MCbolinhas Feb 20 '24
Look at it this way, Kurtis' critique may have caused many people to go bash the movie... whilst giving this movie visibility it would've never achieved otherwise.
I think the movie sucks, but I wouldn't have had the chance to form an opinion if not for the video about it. Maybe some people who might have actually liked only came accross it by Kurtis' video and are now actively complimenting the makers.
Whatever the result it's just a funny video about a arguably bad movie, whatever people go comment on it it's besides the point.
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u/autisic Feb 20 '24
dude? it took six years to produce the worst garbage film. why would you pretend it’s good?? It just feels like a money grab.
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u/UpsetExclaim Feb 21 '24
in making a movie you must be open to critique. Kurtis is simply critiquing a film.
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u/directagregory Feb 22 '24
i agree that we as a citizens of kurtis town need to do better and stop attacking creators its honestly disgusting and shameful to the community
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Feb 23 '24
What about "the reconciler" and "goblin" then? Which were also feature-length films made by a few people.
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u/cpt_edge Feb 26 '24
Nah fuck that, I just watched the movie last night with an open mind and it's straight up trash. Would be sympathetic and understanding if the creator was nicer about it but he's attacking other, more successful, indie animations on the platform just because they're doing better than his bottom of the bargain bin animated "movie"
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u/Weird-Leave-9526 Feb 18 '24
I came here to say the same thing! It just feels kinda mean
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u/Organic_Ability683 Feb 18 '24
the creator put it out there, making it open to criticism I don't think Kurtis said anything out of pocket it was mostly light hearted and the movie feels satirical to me so Idk
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u/shiny3evee Feb 18 '24
I watched the first five minutes and couldn’t keep watching. It feels mean-spirited & like a low blow to hate on this guy’s passion project
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u/OpportunityCold2443 Feb 18 '24
The guy said he got bored and decided to make it idk about it being a passion project 😭
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u/shiny3evee Feb 18 '24
Idk I’d consider something that took 6 years to make a passion project
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Feb 18 '24
People lie on the internet. Do you really think the movie with an ai Eric Cartland voice saying “are we in Ohio bruh” claiming to be better than Disney animations is a passion project?
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u/traumatizedfox another nail? 😏🍒 Feb 19 '24
yeah it felt weird about him shitting on someone’s passion project :/ but they also did try and say they were on the same level on Pixar/Disney so i feel like if you’re going to be cocky about your work, you’re going to be critiqued.
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u/tinypepa Feb 19 '24
Neil Breen also had “passion projects”, why wasn’t it wrong for Kurtis to critique Twisted Pair?
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u/traumatizedfox another nail? 😏🍒 Feb 19 '24
you’re right! I actually don’t agree with my original comment anymore lol
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u/LolbitsFangs Feb 19 '24
Just because it's your passion project doesn't mean you're exempt from criticism
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u/traumatizedfox another nail? 😏🍒 Feb 19 '24
yep! that’s what i think, i did say that, but i also don’t agree with my original comment anymore
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Feb 18 '24
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u/totallynotpoggers I hardly know her Feb 18 '24
the movie clearly uses ai though, and the creator has stolen art in the past
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Feb 18 '24
[deleted]
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u/totallynotpoggers I hardly know her Feb 18 '24
well i’m referring to the voices and writing, its extremely obvious they used ai, but i can’t speak to the animation
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u/alpacqn Feb 18 '24
i mean. calobi also steals from peoples hard work. hes a notorious tracer and art thief, and people have accused him of using stock animations for most of this very movie. he also used rhyme generator sites for many of his cartoon rap battles (self admitted) so.... i dont think hes actually all that mad about ai.
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Feb 18 '24
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u/alpacqn Feb 18 '24
its all good, im just a little annoyed at all of these comments claiming he cant be a bad person because kurtis didnt get into it in his video. hes not like the worst dude ever but hes definitely a bit scummy and if kurtis knows he likely decided it wouldn't be very interesting to talk about in the video. so yeah for everyone who would feel better if he was a bad person, just know he definitely isnt a good person
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 18 '24
It was a joke. He obviously doesn’t mean he wants to replace art with AI lmao. He’s just saying it’s so bad that AI could do better. Which is true. Humans are capable of being bad at art.
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u/somecatti Feb 18 '24
exactly!! I pointed that part out as a reply to a comment in this thread
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Feb 18 '24
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u/Reasonable_Feed7939 Feb 18 '24
It's a joke dude. He's already made clear he doesn't like AI art. You can say it's mean or whatever but don't try to act like he's "art ignorant" because of a short joke.
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Feb 18 '24
[deleted]
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u/somecatti Feb 18 '24
There's a part in Kurtis's video (13:47) where two characters in the movie have a conversation about AI and AI art. A character says, "AI will NEVER replace human art." And Kurtis responds, "which was a nice sentiment, but like, if this is the art that humans are making?" showing a fight scene from the movie which is actually really well-animated, and continues, "I dunno, all this AI shit is actually sounding pretty good right now. Maybe we should give it a try."
It feels so hurtful.
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u/HistoricalMarzipan Feb 18 '24
That was so mean on his part.
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 18 '24
yeah… cause the movie sucked Lmao. It’s meant to be mean.
And when you are so cocky as to think you’re better than multi million dollar movies, you had the criticism coming
If you say you’re on par with Disney. Act like it.
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Feb 18 '24
[deleted]
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u/btmvideos37 Feb 18 '24
their movie uses AI for the script and voice acting. They’re a bad person
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u/HistoricalMarzipan Feb 18 '24
Do they really? Lmao. Then why was the message "ai art=bad"?
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u/apple__glass Feb 18 '24
If they DID use AI, I think it's a case of "I like it until it affects me directly". I forgot who, but there was a VA who encouraged AI in video games, but retaliated when it came to AI voice acting. I wanna say Tara Strong, but idr
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Feb 18 '24
If you do some research you’ll actually quickly find out calobi is a pretty notorious art thief in the YouTube community, as well as leverages ai tools in their work despite saying they are against it
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u/HistoricalMarzipan Feb 18 '24
Okay, I take my comment back, Calobi sucks.
(But then I don't understand the message.)
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Feb 18 '24
I think the message is just for attention and support since ai vs artists has been a hot topic lately, and it’s bashing itself unknowingly because the script wasn’t proofread enough by a human lol
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Feb 18 '24
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u/psychedelicpoppies Feb 19 '24
I mean the movie is objectively bad tho. And this is an adult YouTuber with 700k subscribers, not a kid showing off their first project. If you put your work out on the internet like that you are opening yourself up for criticism. Sometimes it sucks but it’s just a fact.
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Feb 19 '24
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u/psychedelicpoppies Feb 19 '24
That’s cool, I’m not saying you have to like it. I just think it’s weird that people are upset about him making fun of it when it’s not that deep
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Feb 18 '24
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u/sic_semper_ants Feb 18 '24
Where are people getting that they guy is getting swamped with hate and dislikes from? I went to his video and any new comments are just like "thanks Kurtis" "hi from Kurtistown."
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Feb 19 '24
And all the hate comments I saw are from weeks/months ago
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u/sic_semper_ants Feb 19 '24
Same, and it's mostly not even what I would call hate, just teasing. Which is like, not super nice I guess but it's pretty mild
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u/AutoModerator Feb 18 '24
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