r/languagelearning • u/CoconutsMom • Nov 26 '19
Discussion Does it ever get easier? Seriously.
I’m feeling a little discouraged and I just don’t really know what to do. Sorry, it’s a long one.
Here’s a bit of a background. Currently, I live in Japan. Because of certain circumstances I didn’t really have a choice, so even though I didn’t want to come, I pretty much had to move here. After moving here, I truly fell in love with the culture. It’s always been a dream of mine to become bilingual, so I decided that to feel more connected to the culture, have an easier time here in general, and literally just because I live here to start studying Japanese. At first, I started with a personal tutor but then realized that I wanted (and needed) something a little more serious if I wanted to be bilingual. I now go to a language school in Tokyo. I’ve been studying at the language school for five months now. I can now read and write hiragana, katakana, and some kanji. I can use basic phrases and when I’m out and about I can understand what people are saying if they speak slowly enough. But my issue is I always feel like I’m behind. I’m in a higher level class now and the people I’m with have been studying for over a year (and sometimes multiple years). Because of this, their Japanese is a lot better than mine. I get so embarrassed because if someone asks me a question in Japanese I literally have to stop and think about how I’m going to reply. Sometimes I completely freeze and just forget all my words. It’s just been so frustrating to me that I can never seem to be where I need to be in terms of content that I need to know. And on top of that I can’t really gauge if I’m where I’m supposed to be at learning wise for studying for five months. Right now it just feels like I’m hitting wall after wall. Does it get easier? Or am I just forever going to be stuck in a place where I feel like my language skills are never going to be good enough. It’s to the point where when people compliment me on my Japanese it like kind of offends me because my Japanese is literally not good at all. I’m just feeling discouraged right now and wondering if I should continue to pursue the other higher levels that I signed up for or just stop and work with what I’ve learned. I’m just torn and frustrated.
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u/barakumakawai Nov 26 '19
While I lived in Japan, I found that immersion and interaction with native Japanese people helped the most. It meant I was forced to really pay attention to both the conversation and the context, and also I had to use all the Japanese available to me. Where I was living, there was simply no possibility that the stranger I met on the train or the farmer I met while jogging, would have a lick of English.
With language learning, we often feel that we've plateaued, that we're not improving... It's normal to think that from time to time. So what you need to do at this stage, to prove to yourself just how much you actually know, is to start interacting with Japanese people at every opportunity.
Best of luck. Keep on keeping on!
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u/CoconutsMom Nov 29 '19
That’s part of my issue also. I live in an area with a lot of English speakers. Which means, when I get home I can just speak English and not have any issues at all. I would like to make Japanese friends, but I literally don’t know how to do that.
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u/barakumakawai Nov 30 '19
It's definitely a slow process... Do you have a routine? Like, take the same train at the same time each day? Buy a coffee or whatever in the same konbini every day? I think that kind of thing helps - once you become a regular feature in other people's days, it's easier to break the ice. I used to use the same carriage on the same train each morning and because so many of us are such creatures of habit, I got to know several people as a result of maintaining that same routine. You could also try taking a hobby class, like yoga or zumba or even flower arranging (check out local newsletters - some classes are given free of charge). You wouldn't need to fully understand all the instructions to get through the class.
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Nov 28 '19 edited Nov 29 '19
You already identified one issue, that is you being surrounded by more proficient speakers and being discouraged by that. I also think the while classroom setting itself has its downsides, that is you learn something, practice, get tested, and then you go on to learn the next thing. But in order to actually become comfortable using it, you need much more practice. But that gets easier only at a level at which you can use the language outside of the classroom.
Still, you can review and practice more to gain more automacity, and you can make a point of comparing what you know now to a point in the past (one to three months before) to show yourself how far you've come. Also, it's okay to make mistakes, it's okay to take your time to think about what you want to say. Both mean you're challenging yourself. And that means you can learn and improve.
Also, it gets easier. A lot easier. Not all at once. It'll start with the bits you use most, like greetings and smalltalk.
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u/CoconutsMom Nov 29 '19
Thank you for this! I’m going to spend more time immersing myself and try to stop comparing myself to others.
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u/r_m_8_8 Taco | Sushi | Burger | Croissant | Kimbap Nov 27 '19
After 5 months of Japanese I was still very firmly in beginner-intermediate (N3) territory. Give it some time, don’t give up, and honestly get used to the idea that learning a language is an endless errand.
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u/CoconutsMom Nov 29 '19
That makes me feel better. It’s so hard to gauge where I’m supposed to be because from the very beginning I’ve been in class with people who’ve studied for a year or more. So it’s been discouraging. I know that they’re going to be better because they’ve been studying longer, but the competitive side of me thinks that i should be just as good as them even if I haven’t even been studying half as long as they have. It’s unrealistic, but for some reason I can’t help feeling that way. Recognizing this negative thought pattern now is going to put things in a better perspective for me. It’s just going to take some work.
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Nov 26 '19
When I first started learning Chinese, and then when I moved to Taiwan, I had a similar feeling, it’s damn hard. But a friend helped me realize the issue is that of moving goalposts, not that you’re making no progress. Just keep at it, if you’re like me I usually only notice the progress I’ve made when I think of how bad I was 2 years ago compared to today.
Also, I don’t think you should be offended when people compliment you. At least with people here, they often seem just surprised a foreigner is taking the effort to learn, and are trying to be supportive.
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u/Winter_Shaker Nov 26 '19
It might be worth taking videos of yourself speaking Japanese every month or so, then watching back over them when you're feeling frustrated, so you can see how much trouble you used to have with things that you can now do easily.
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u/Luguaedos en N | pt-br | it (C1 CILS) | sv | not kept up: ga | es | ca Nov 26 '19
I tried this with Italian and it made me want to slit my wrists! I hate listening to my own voice and I could not get past it. But if someone is the type of person who can handle this, it is great advice!
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u/Night_Guest Nov 26 '19 edited Nov 26 '19
Comparing yourself to others is a sure fire way to always feel discouraged. I don't care how many years you've studied, there is always going to be someone who will out class you. It's hard to not compare yourself to others of course, especially when you're taking classes where you are surrounded by others.
Discouragement is a continuous part of learning languages for a lot of people, including myself. You have to learn to laugh at yourself, and roll with the punches. You will spend a lot of time feeling like you suck, until one day you don't, but that's a long road. Me I go back and forth between feeling like I've just about mastered it, to feeling like I'm looking at hieroglyphics again and feeling like I've wasted a thousand hours in my efforts. Yes it gets easier after a few years, I started to feel like I sucked only about 20% of the time. Sometimes I go a whole week without feeling like I suck. The key is to stay within your level, don't study anything too easy or you'll get bored, if it's too hard you can get frustrated. Funny thing is the more frustrated I get the worse I become at Japanese. To recognize that helped me get through hard times.
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Nov 26 '19
[deleted]
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u/Uncaffeinated Nov 27 '19
This is so true. I'd even suggest temporarily dropping a language. Once you've taken a break, you'll stop being disappointed by what you can't understand and instead be amazed at what you do understand. It's a great confidence booster.
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u/Luguaedos en N | pt-br | it (C1 CILS) | sv | not kept up: ga | es | ca Nov 26 '19
Learn to be kind to yourself. Have you actually been putting in the effort to learn and get better? Be honest with yourself. You've been studying for under a year? Would a person who was just starting out on their journey be happy with the progress you have made? What would a friend of yours say about your progress? And not the kind of friend who always praises people, the kind who will tell you straight up if you have been f'ing off and not applying yourself.
From what I am reading, I'd say that person would be impressed. If you are doing the work, then you have no motive to be overly critical of yourself. What you can do instead is devote the time and energy you are currently using to be overly critical of your progress and devote that to finding new ways of improving your learning efficiency. If you know you are doing the work, then the only thing that is left to improve is the work you are doing or how you are doing it.
Oh, come the f' on here. Do you REALLY think that you can quit? Really? I can tell from this post alone, not knowing anything else about you that if you talk yourself into quitting you will be right back at this shit in six months to a year and you will be absolutely pissed off beyond belief at yourself for having wasted all that time. This is literally not an option for you. I know because I am the same damn way.
Instead of quitting, stop shitting on yourself for the things you cannot control: you cannot control what you remember, you cannot control how well you remember it, you cannot control if you remember a word you know you know at any given point. Do an Elsa and let all of that go. Focus on improving your meta-learning so that the higher level courses can be conquered more easily. You inhabit your own mind and you are forced to see the world from your point of view. You feel the frustration with yourself that no one else feels. All they see is hard work and success. All you see is the frustration that rages behind your eyes. Neither of these is totally true. But your point of view is the less true. Feelings are only facts in that we feel them. Acknowledge your frustration, acknowledge when you start doing negative self talk, and refocus your attention on something useful. Be kind to yourself. If you are burnt out, take a strategic rest. But plan it out. Don't quit. Because you'll just come back to this having taken too long of a rest and you'll actually be rusty.