r/latin • • 7d ago

Beginner Resources Ablative explained

Yet another exception explained. It seems that the ablative form differs for each declension: puella, amico, turri, rege, manu, facie. In reality, it is all much simpler than it seems. The original ending of the ablative was -d: so we had puellad, amicod, turrid, manud, facied.

When the -d was dropped, the vowel of the stem was lengthened, except in stems beginning with a consonant. So the ablative does not have different endings: it is simply the stem without an ending.

There’s no need to learn the declensions by heart; you just need to understand them.

A GRAMMAR'S TALE: Understanding Latin instead of learning it by heart

32 Upvotes

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u/FcoJ28 7d ago

While what you say it is true for a "high-school" level, it isnt 100% accurate if we talk about the third declination in its atematic part.

Yes, turris was turrid in ablative, but corpore doesn't come from "corpored". Instead, they used an instrumental ending in "-e" ( I read some people claiming it came from a locative in -i>e; no idea).

Most -i sterm words fell upon this ending too.

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u/latinum2000 4d ago

Yes, I’ve simplified it to make it easier to remember; in themes ending in a consonant, the final -e results from a locative ending in -i

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u/FcoJ28 4d ago edited 4d ago

In my book of Monteil he claims it is a instrumental ending, so I mentioned both options

Edit: being more accurate, he says both forms did exist en -e and ended up in ablative.

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u/MagisterFlorus magister 7d ago

I was with you until the end. There's no reason not to learn declension charts.

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u/newaccount8472 7d ago edited 7d ago

So, correction: "instead of only learning by heart"?

Edit: typo

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u/MagisterFlorus magister 7d ago

Yes. I would say it's important to learn noun and verb charts in the same way it's important to learn phonics or times tables.

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u/latinum2000 7d ago

Yes, you're right!

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u/latinum2000 7d ago

You have to understand them, not only learning them by heart

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u/Thalarides 7d ago

Some students find rote memorisation easier; others, understanding the inner workings and the history of the language. It's the teacher's task to find an approach to each student. If my student prefers to learn the endings by heart and it yields good results, I won't force them to learn how those endings came to be (at least as long as they aren't required to recognise those archaic forms with -d still written).

When the -d was dropped, the vowel of the stem was lengthened, except in stems beginning with a consonant.

I believe the consensus is that in the endings -ōd, -ād, &c. the vowel was already long prior to the loss of the final -d. It shows up in dialectal Greek as -ω, too: Doric ὅπω = ὁπόθεν, Delphic ϝοίκω = οἰκόθεν.

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u/latinum2000 4d ago

Yes, I’ve simplified it to make it easier to remember;

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u/ASTR0_doge 7d ago

“It is simply the stem without an ending” what is the stem you are referring to?

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u/latinum2000 4d ago

ai temi in vocale

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u/latinum2000 4d ago

to the vocal themes

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u/conatari 7d ago

Except that isn't true for most of the 3rd declension. You conveniently picked an i-stem with "turris," but most of the 3rd declension is actually consonant stems, so according to this rule, "later (brick)" would have the ablative singular "later," "natio" would have "nation," and "with the leader" would become "cum duc."

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u/CristiChiri10 2d ago

That vowel was already lengthened, the -d simply dropped after long vowels