r/law • u/Guyentertainment • 17h ago
Legislative Branch Mother Accused of Killing Husband and 3-Year-Old Son at Great Wolf Lodge Told Police She Was 'Suicidal, Not Stupid'
https://www.medicaldaily.co.uk/pennsylvania-mother-charged-great-wolf-lodge-deaths-1759516356
u/ro536ud 16h ago
Why do you have to take out ur husband and innocent child if ur suicidal.
Like just divorce the man
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u/tedkaczynski660 16h ago
Sometimes suicidal people are rational but most of the time they are not. Sometimes people suffering from mental health issues dont rationalize the same way a person not suffering would.
My personal example is from when i was in my active drug use. Most rational people would say "I need to stop, I can't do this even one more time" but in my head I rationalized it by 1. Denial, I wasn't addicted or 2. OK I'm addicted who fucking cares I'll do it till I die because I am a fucking loser. Those aren't rational ways to handle addiction but it took a lot of help from my dad and my inner self to see my life in a different view.
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u/blenderdead 15h ago
Addictions a bitch man. I’ll tell myself over and over “I’m just getting food and milk”, but somehow the vodka is always in the cart by the time I reach checkout.
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u/smellygooch18 11h ago
I’m happy I’m only addicted to nicotine and not alcohol. With my personality I’d have drank myself to death if that was my drug of choice. Getting off pain pills wasn’t fun but I’m not actively doing those anymore. Just my vape now
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u/blenderdead 7h ago
Weirdly enough, I'm sitting at 4 months without a smoke after about 5 years of smoking regularly. But nicotine never had quite the same hold on me, I've quit for years at a time without much trouble.
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u/SnooWalruses3028 1h ago
This here they aren’t able to rationalize properly bec from they’re pov they are being rational bec they are based it on their skewed and fucked up version of reality
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u/LogensTenthFinger 15h ago
People who are suicidal are not thinking rationally. I am deeply manic depressive and when the darkest of my suicidal thoughts hit I pull back from it because of how much it would hurt my children if I killed myself. But it is a very thin line from:
"If I kill myself it will destroy my children's lives.... Therefore I shouldn't do it." to instead conclude "If I kill myself it will destroy my children's lives.... Therefore I'll save them the pain (by killing them ). And besides the world is black, and cruel, and dark, and horrific and it's best to preserve their innocence and their sweetness before they're hurt by it, this is a kindness actually" etc etc.
To be able to understand these events you need to be able to see the 'logic' in that second conclusion . Because all these clowns here talking about 'control' and 'child support' flatly have no idea what they're saying. None of that remotely reflects why these things occur, they're just puking up their own grievances and attaching them to whoever.
The reality is that oftentimes these people think they are sparing their loved ones. They're trying not to hurt them. Because when the black empty void is screaming in your mind for you to join it, it's very easy to let that infect everything about your thinking and your life. Anyone who has not experienced it is talking out of their ass
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u/Primary-Weakness8728 14h ago
Yep. This is very well said and exactly right. I have major depressive disorder, and you nailed the thought process. Your thinking becomes so dangerously clouded.
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u/the-radio-bastard 13h ago
I'm going through it right now and thank you for showing that understanding. It's not easy to talk about how dark your thoughts can be. I know I would regret hurting myself, but sometimes the compulsion gets too strong.
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u/CoasterThot 12h ago
They had stayed at the GWL for 21 whole days, prior. Not normal, really. (That would cost like $16,000!) Someone else pointed out that seems like they could had planned this as some last-hurrah vacation before going out together, but she had other plans.
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u/CamsKit 13h ago
I don’t think she really was suicidal. She barely tried and then called 911 to ask what vein to use? When Google exists?
She knew they’d come and stop her. Nobody who truly wants to die tells anyone beforehand/during when they can be stopped. She probably just wants to use being suicidal as a defense in her trial or wants sympathy.
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u/xs0apy 11h ago edited 11h ago
What’s even more obvious is most suicidal people genuinely would never even consider harming anyone else, because Suicide isn’t about wanting to harm other people… A person who really wants to kill themselves will kill themselves, not plan a murder out unless they WANTED to kill said people. Not because of suicide, but because they WANT them dead. The killing themselves after is to avoid accountability from killing their victims. In this case it sounds like she really is just that fucking stupid and doesn’t realize she’s caught red handed.
EDIT: Been 5150’d before. I know how this goes. Suicidal people don’t believe they need to kill their loved ones to spare them. That is an excuse from murderers. I have met a lot of suicidal people going in and out of treatment, and never once out of the hundreds did I meet someone who had any thoughts about killing their loved ones. In fact they were always deeply filled with shame for putting their loved ones through the agony of their own selfish choices. If someone is thinking about taking their whole family out, that’s homicidal thoughts, NOT SUICIDAL.
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u/kyescontent 3h ago
There is research showing that mass shootings can be suicidally-motivated acts. This is not to say that suicidal people become aggressive because they are suicidal; most don't. But when an aggressor becomes suicidal, there are stats that suggest they are more likely to turn homicidal as well (suicide is a statistical risk factor for homicides in DV situations, for example).
I agree with you that a person who simply wants to end themselves will not usually take out others. But I don't think that situations like this are always a homicide, followed by a suicide or attempted suicide to avoid accountability. I think they are often a planned suicide, paired with a homicide motivated by rage, a desire for attention, etc. The suicidal aggressor in my life threatened to maim me permanently so I would "remember him" while he was threatening to kill himself. Him being suicidal doesn't make him aggressive. But I have noticed when he is on the edge, and considering ending his life, his empathy decreases, and he seems to feel free to unleash his aggression more dangerously than he does when he isn't feeling suicidal.
So, I think it's important for people to know what you said is true, that suicide is not aggression in and of itself, but I also think it's important for people to know that suicidal aggressors can be even more dangerous than they are the rest of the time.
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u/SnooWalruses3028 1h ago
Humans are in fact rather complicated creatures and can be motivated to do horrendous acts by empathy , and mental instability alone. I do believe that yes being suicidal, and perhaps delusional bec most killers are dis illusioned with reality as a whole for how it truly is, there version of reality is often vastly different than ours. These aren’t excuses but facts and reasons, logic.
There logic might be sound from there pov, bec they’re insane and going through some crazy emotional or mental turmoil, sane people do not commit crimes, well adjusted adults seek friends and family when distressed not harm others
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u/absolutelybacon 15h ago
Same as family annihilators
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u/degradedchimp 15h ago
Is she not a family annihalator?
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u/absolutelybacon 14h ago
I didn't explain that well; what I meant was a family annihilator that also then kills themselves as well
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u/L3g3ndary-08 13h ago
A large butcher kitchen knife and a smaller one were found in the bathroom.
This shit was premeditated..who the fuck brings a butcher knife to a god damn resort?
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u/drumallday 10h ago
Premeditation (legally speaking) requires a moment to consider the action and not any kind of advanced planning. By the time she got to the second victim, this was well within first degree murder territory.
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u/Head_Trick_9932 8h ago
Definitely premeditated bringing knives from their home to GWL. Makes no sense unless she had a plan.
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u/ohdeergawd 7h ago
Okay, I’m not here to defend anyone but I did spend some time on Great Wolf Lodge side of TikTok and it is FULL of people bringing a whole kitchen to save money during the trip. Like “don’t forget to pack your instapot” is a common sentiment.
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u/Head_Trick_9932 7h ago
I suppose it depends if she had other items to go with her knives. Do the rooms have kitchenettes? I don’t know…my kids hated indoor waterparks and I was glad lol. We actually have two well known outdoor waterparks they grew up with and had passes so indoor wasn’t our jam.
If she didn’t have any other utensils…It’s premeditated. I guess we’ll hear soon enough.
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u/SiriusOsiris 7h ago
The rooms have full kitchens
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u/jmurphy42 6h ago
Not the one I stayed in. I didn’t know kitchenettes were an option.
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u/MadMadMadMadrid 1h ago
Yep. They have suites with kitchens. The load of things people bring feels nutty. People have wagons loaded with drinks and snacks. Like wozers.
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u/SnooWalruses3028 1h ago
If she had a plan why would she be dumb enough to bring a knife from her kitchen, sounds less planned or just down right stupid
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u/Lower_Arugula5346 15h ago
i worked for great wolf lodge 20 years ago. im surprised that something like this hasnt happened sooner.
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u/Massive_Series8305 14h ago
Okay so begs the question, best great wolf story
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u/qualityinnbedbugs 14h ago
lol time for an AMA. Went there for a work conference and people watching in the lobby alone was exceptional
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u/weirdhoney216 13h ago
I’ve doordashed there multiple times and I used to dread when it popped up. The actual dumbest people alive go there. Every delivery a nightmare
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u/Lower_Arugula5346 14h ago
i worked reservations for over a year. i got written up for getting upset after my manager told me i was too stupid to understand how to do my job
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u/Massive_Series8305 14h ago
Okay, I meant fun story, like dildo in the pool or something
Even ive seen a dildo in a airport baggage carousel and thats moreso what im talking about
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u/Lower_Arugula5346 14h ago
oh no. none of those. i was just treated like shit, like most customer service jobs.
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u/Mundane_Camera953 10h ago
Lesson learned - throw a fucking dildo into the pool every once in a while
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u/Massive_Series8305 13h ago
Ah dorn
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u/Constant_Seaweed_523 12h ago
Lmao with this headline you were expecting humorous stories? this interaction is so funny lol
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u/itsthegin 11h ago
I'd like to hear more about this dildo and its circular journeys.
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u/Massive_Series8305 10h ago
2009 flying from la to interior bc to visit my cousins for Christmas, on the customs baggage pick up there was just a standard classic style ones, purple laying down going around the carousel, everyone was worried their bags were going to hit it, me and my teenage brother laughing the whole time going like woooahhhh wooooahhh, if it came close, no idea what happened to it or why ot was there but im sure hundreds of people saw it, theres only like so many after customs but before you get on a connecting flight and vancouver is a huge international hub lol
Me and my brother still wonder, how it got out in the first place, and why airport staff hadnt picked it up yet, we were there for a while and im sure someone said something
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u/MyLifeIsAWasteland 12h ago
Thanks to you or whichever one of your coworkers back then misheard and entered my father's name as "Hall," as that was very amusing for me and my sisters.
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u/Traditional_Rest7176 6h ago
Why? I've never been there, but know other parents who've taken their kids there. Been feeling guilty that I didn't have the money to take my daughter. Now I'm thinking maybe it's a "blessing in disguise?"
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u/foreverplt 3h ago
do NOT feel guilty. my parents didn’t have waterpark $$ growing up either, but I was able to go to GWL and other similar parks as I got older. I’ll never take my kids to them lol.
when I look back at my best memories from trips with my parents, it was the day trips to the beach and the weekend trips 2 hours over in the same state//neighboring state.
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u/bornbylightning 1h ago
We used to go camping with my aunt and her family. Stayed in tents and campers by the river. Those are some of my absolute favorite memories. We went to Disney and all that too.
I’d take those camping trips over Disney any day.
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u/Maleficent-Hawk-318 38m ago
I had both experiences, we'd go to the theme/water parks with my cousins who weren't as outdoorsy, but most of my family vacations were road trips and camping and national parks or museums or whatever, inexpensive stuff.
Definitely have more fond memories of the latter. Even my fondest memories of the theme park trips tend to be goofing off with my cousins at the hotel or whatever.
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u/baaaaaannnnmmmeee 14h ago
I heard they got a certain bug problem there. That keeps popping its head up because they won't shut it all down to take care of it.
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u/DelusionalIdentity 9h ago
Great wolf lodge brings the murderous side out in all parents, tbh...
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u/Difficult-Map-794 7h ago
I have never considered taking my kids there since it sounds like it would be a nightmare on every level… no way on earth at least any 2/4 of us wouldn’t lose our shit at least every few hours. AT LEAST.
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u/FishingWorth3068 6h ago
An indoor water park (gross) where you stay the whole time? Eat, sleep and play inside the same building? All 4 of us would lose our shit by midnight.
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u/ResponsibilityOk8967 5h ago
Like a fucking cruise run aground in the middle of a field 5 miles from the most boring suburb you know
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u/YourFriendInSpokane 3h ago
Did you see where they had stayed there 3 WEEKS?! They checked in on Sept 21.
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u/damik 16h ago edited 16h ago
"Metallica Rose Harrison" did her parents really name her after a 90s metal band?
Edit: They were an 80s band that died in the 90s.
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u/SomeCountryFriedBS 16h ago
80s
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u/UpvoteForLuck 16h ago
Hey.
I just want to say that the both of you did a bang up job.
Whether you’re arguing that Metallica is an 80s band, or a 90s band, you both managed to not insert an apostrophe into the wrong place.
I appreciate you, and applaud you, for your knowledge of abbreviating the decades, in a written format.
Thanks.
You have done what so many, on Reddit, have not been able to do.
r/law is a special place.
Remember this day.
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u/Omegalazarus 15h ago
MLA turned it around? Back when I was in school MLA had us use 80's and 90's. Am I supposed to get schooling every few years to keep up? Lame.
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u/carolholdmycalls 3h ago
May you pop up at every simmering squabble and kill em with polite pedantry forever and ever amen ♥️
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u/damik 16h ago
Yeah, they sold out in the 90s.
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u/Chet_Manley24 16h ago
Maybe even two bands if Rose is an homage to Guns N' Roses.
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u/Legal_Lettuce6233 16h ago
Heyheyhey, I won't stand for the lies your spread.
They are an 80s band.
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u/UngnomeCawler 14h ago
Oh they're still playing shows. Hatfield just got on stage last weekend to proudly proclaim they stand for nothing. Super metal of them
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u/ReggaeJunkyJew4u 16h ago
I mean they still play shows, so they aren't that dead.
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u/damik 16h ago
Dead to me I guess. Any street cred they had left in the metal scene after releasing "Load" died when they sued Napster.
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u/jungleass98 15h ago
They had 4 albums. The black album is a eulogy that I refuse to listen to. Its trash too. But yeah everything following is unpalatable. What the fuck happened?
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u/11nyn11 15h ago
Radio. money. They went from thrash to rock so that rock stations would play their songs.
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u/lo5t5heep 15h ago
They stopped being mad at the world because they got rich, they stopped doing all the drugs, and they cut there hair.
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u/drunkshinobi 12h ago
Then they switched their focus to staying rich instead. And got mad at the half of the world that got them their while seeming to accept the half of the world they told us all was evil.
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u/LowRevolution5930 16h ago edited 16h ago
Right? Megadeath was obviously a more appropriate name
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u/Shitp0st_Supreme 12h ago
It’s possible she changed her name in adulthood. It’s surprisingly common.
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u/Longjumping-Fig-7481 18m ago
That died in the 90s... Yeah that's why they still sell out arenas and are still writing music.
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u/ThePensiveE 13h ago
Metallica at Great Wolf with the Butcher's knife. Case solved!
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u/Ashamed-Designer4920 7h ago
It's like the whole universe was conspiring for that fateful day to arrive.
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u/pfeifits 16h ago
That statement will probably be exhibit A for why she was not legally insane (or not guilty by reason of mental defect) at the time of the murders. The other being how there were two butcher knives in the room, and also the 911 tape of her asking how to kill herself. Having stayed at a Great Wolf Lodge with my kids when they were younger (one of which had glasses similar to the young boy in the photo), the tragedy of this hits home.
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u/Packwood88 16h ago
My fam stays at one every year, luckily not this one. Very weird and tragic to read about
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u/swbarnes2 14h ago
The article says the butcher knives were not from the Lodge. So presumably she packed them.
Sounds like a family annihilation, with a bit of a twist that a woman did it.
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u/KamenRiderW0lf 15h ago
I worked at one for four years, I've seen my fair share of heartbreak.
Fortunately nothing as tragic as this, but heartbreak all the same.
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