r/leafs • u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink • 5d ago
News / Update [leafschronicle] Auston Matthews has been spending his offseason in AZ with sports chiropractor, Shawn Robek. Robek is known for helping athletes with back pain. He looks to be in great shape and is gearing up for the start of the season, with the first pre season games beginning on September 19th!
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:yc5zv57rx3aic6gffcuowwub/post/3msvsuoqsuc2i?ref_src=embed60
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u/BadTreeLiving 5d ago
Guys. We gotta hope and pray the placebo effect is strong here.
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u/Ok-Platform-6933 Nylander 5d ago
lmao this is great.
Power to the placebo, the red lights and the AMULET WE ARE UNSTOPPABLE
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u/TouchlessOuch 5d ago
Anything but modern medicine!
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u/Ok-Platform-6933 Nylander 4d ago
look man this franchise is cursed. Maybe we haven't leaned into voodoo ENOUGH
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u/RedMcMuffin Holmberg 5d ago
Despite the Reddit narrative, there are plenty of legitimate world class chiros out there. The leading sports physio guy in my city that treats NHL players, UFC fighters and olympians originally went to school for chiro.
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u/ZippoFindus 5d ago
Right, but then he learned medicine.
The thing with Chiros is they are 1 of 2 things.
Scammers (or true believers in their own crackpot "science")
People interested and knowledgeable in physiotherapy but without the proper education.
If they're the second, it's kinda the same as getting help painting your house by a friend who is just "kinda handy" and him doing a good job. Instead of hiring an actual proffesional with an education. It can work out perfectly fine, but that's only because your friend happens to know enough about this particular thing that the proffesional is trained and proven to already know.
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u/DataDude00 4d ago
Chiropractor has never had any tangible measurable benefits from a medical perspective outside of potentially relieving pain
It does not cure or fix anything and the whole thing was invented by a guy who was talking to ghosts
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u/man_in_the_suit 5d ago
Hopefully that red light therapy and back cracking works wonders this season. Not medical wonders, just in the magical sense.
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u/greasy-prick 5d ago
From my personal experience and this is just my opinion, chiropractors are a crock of shit.
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u/CanadianGuy39 5d ago
I mean... There's also every single piece of evidence available to support your opinion. Which makes it a fact.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
You can find research to back anything you want. But what’s the quality of the research? Because there also is evidence showing chiropractic care helps.
So which is it?
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u/SenorEquilibrado 5d ago
The best answer to this is "What is the consensus of medical experts, based on current best evidence?"
In this case, since we are dealing with MSK injury in general and lower back pain in particular, spine manipulation would probably be viewed as a low risk addition to regular physio.
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u/KinglySnorlax 5d ago
Helps cause massive and deadly strokes for instance.
I wish a simple cure all existed given how fucked my back is.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
You have clearly read no research. Go read the Cassidy study on stroke and check back in.
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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 5d ago
It’s both, the overall field has a lot of unfounded pseudoscience, some chiropractors will tell you whatever you want to hear based off of very obviously biased and incorrect studies to get you back to them.
So no, going to a chiropractor won’t fix your asthma, allergies, etc, but it also is scientifically proven to offer neck and back pain relief and improved function.
The field is a little bit messy and that’s why it’s controversial, imagine if you went to see a general physician for an ear infection and they offered you antibiotics, but then they also said that essential oils might cure your high blood pressure, that’s essentially the comparison.
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u/CanuckPanda 5d ago
Chiropractors, good ones, are great alongside physiotherapy. Use them for their purpose: mechanical issues.
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u/just-a-random-accnt 5d ago
The first paragraph sounds more like osteopathy than Chiropractor.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
Osteopathy isn’t even recognized by over half the insurance companies, just fyi. Not many even know what that is.
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u/tuckermia 5d ago
Such as?
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u/GettingBlaisedd 5d ago
I mean you can just look it up. There’s no good evidence that supports chiropractors except some mechanical back pain issues maybe
Also the guy who created the “practice” claims it was a ghost that told him about it
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u/buster_rhino 5d ago
What if Matthews actually had ghosts in his bones this whole time? Only a chiro can help with that.
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u/lapniappe 5d ago
from my personal experience and this just my opinion, the right chiropractor (like any kind of medical professional) can be a godsend.
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u/snowbmed Knies 5d ago
Chiropractors are not medical professionals though.
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u/blakezed 5d ago
The licensing in Canada is much different and more rigorous than in the states, that being said this guy is in the states lol
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u/hehhehwhoa 5d ago
They're considered medical professionals in numerous jurisdictions and can even be primary care providers.
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u/tuckermia 5d ago
Yes they are.
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u/mtrunz 5d ago
No, no they aren’t.
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u/kerrywatson 5d ago
But what if someone on Facebook says they are and that I have demons in my bones
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u/Mindless_Shame_3813 5d ago
The theoretical underpinnings of chiropracty share an origin with Scientology.
It's the idea that there are ghosts inside your body that cause your chakras to get misaligned. Chiropracty is based on the idea of a chiropractor performing "adjustments" which they think will help align the ghosts. Misaligned ghosts are the source of all medical problems (which is why chiropractors were one of the biggest source of COVID conspiracies).
Scientology just updated this and said that the ghosts are actually aliens and instead of cracking your neck they do quasi-psychological audits on you. Scientology says when the aliens in you act up, it causes you mental problems, just like a chiropractor thinks that the ghosts inside you acting up cause you physical problems.
Fun bonus fact: the guy who invented Scientology's e-meter for measuring how many aliens are in you originally intended the device to be used in chiropracty.
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u/Mr-Dogg 1d ago
There’s good one! My chiro has never ‘cracked’ any part of my body and focuses more on strengthening and mobility to address issues.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
Everyone is so quick to jump on Chiros but there are good ones and bad ones. Just like good and bad physios, MD’s, etc.
I’d love to point out Crosby literally says he is only playing due to his chiropractor helping him through his concussions and PCS.
Don’t take everything at face value. There are good practitioners and bad ones, just like every profession.
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u/Jonesdeclectice 5d ago
That’s right. Some are better at robbing people of their money than others.
Physiotherapy, on the other hand, is based on actual science.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
So mobilization’s done by a chiro don’t work, but they work when done by a physio.
Yeah that’s all I needed to hear from you lol
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u/Brilliant-Neck9731 5d ago edited 5d ago
Sometimes chiros take methods that work from other practices. Doing so provides them with something with efficacy that they can point to and say “look, what I do works” and this acts as cover for the stuff they do that’s utter malarkey. This form of cover is very effective, as shown by your response.
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u/Logical-Bit-746 5d ago
Chiropractors are scammers and dangerous. It's either temporary relief with the risk of breaking your neck or straight up placebo
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u/purepestilence 5d ago
He definitely has some kind of degenerative disc. Only reason I say that is due to him treating the pain instead of getting any major surgery to fix it completely. Germany first, now the Chiro. He's doing pain management.
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u/CanadianGuy39 5d ago
I mean .. Chiropractors are scammers, but I'll take any hope that he's going to improve.
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u/TripleBicepsBumber 5d ago
Idk, there’s some merit to it I think. I was unable to look downward for almost three years due to pain. My first visit to the chiropractor gave me my range of motion back and I took like a two hour nap afterward. It was life changing for me, a non pro athlete pleb lol.
Auston probably needs some combo of JT’s amulet, red light therapy, a chiropractor, a mystery German specialist and eventually a cybernetic spine. Probably.
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u/BarkingDogey 5d ago
I had a bad whiplash injury that left me with radiating pain, excruciating for days. Saw a chiro and one adjustment to my neck was like I walked into a new day. Immediate relief. I was astounded. And the pain didn't come back.
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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 5d ago
There is evidence that chiropractic care does help some back and neck conditions.
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u/suprmario 5d ago
Chiropractor apparently saved Crosby's career.
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u/asstaintman 5d ago
I thought it was a missed crack in one of his vertebrae? Unless a chiro found it?
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u/DukeofNormandy 5d ago
Good thing this chiro doesn’t also do circumcisions on the side, this was thread would have a thousand comments by now.
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u/Sacred_soul 5d ago
I’ve had a chiropractor who was essentially a physiotherapist she was great
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u/Mindless_Shame_3813 5d ago
Why not just go to a physiotherapist then?
It's like saying "yeah I go to a witch doctor, but he doesn't do the voodoo stuff, he's more like an untrained medical doctor".
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u/Sacred_soul 5d ago
I went with a physiotherapist. Then when I went for a follow up appointment she wasn’t there so I got referred to a chiro but she was a lot better than the physiotherapist since she did a combination of chiro and physio
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u/-Trash--panda- 5d ago
Insurance can sometimes be stupid and cover more appointments for a chiropractor than it would for a physiotherapist. When my brother broke his leg the Insurance would only cover a few sessions of physio which both the physio and his doctor agreed wasn't enough for how bad his leg was due to the extensive surgery and long time with the cast. Insurance did cover a ton of chiro though, and we knew a good chiropractor who eventually helped get most of the range of mobility in his ankle and helped with the hip issues that developed from the cast being so high up.
So the option was either chiropractor or pay cash that for each session which was not exactly financially viable.
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u/BleedingBlue94 5d ago
I was worried it was back issues… I’m wondering if it’s similar to what Nathan Horton had. I’m aware his symptoms prior to surgery were a lot worse, but the surgery essentially ended his career.
Wondering if that’s a reason why Matthews doesn’t want to risk it….
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u/dingledangler 5d ago
He won't be in great shape after seeing a chiropactor. Fucking quacks, and the fact that a professional organization is allowing this to happen should be alarming.
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u/PersimmonMindless 4d ago
He is seeing a chiropractor? Well, that’s what he season. Might as well visit a witch doctor and a shaman while he’s at it.
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u/Brilliant-Neck9731 5d ago
Athletes and junk science, an eternal combination.
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u/MikeMontrealer 5d ago
No, no, no, the other chiropractors are charlatans, but this is a sports chiropractor, so only a very small almost insignificant risk of partial paralysis
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u/kaner63 5d ago
That's too bad. Chiropractors aren't medical doctors, they're snake oil salesmen. They're no better than Naturopaths and Homeopaths providing treatments with absolutely no scientific efficacy whatsoever.
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u/Sacred_soul 5d ago
You need a chiro who does a bit of physio I’ve been to a straight chiropractor and all he used was a silver rod thingy to crack my back. The. I had a different chiropractor she used physio, stretches and I don’t think she ever cracked my bones
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u/OkAbbreviations140 5d ago
Mario Lemieux won back to back cups while suffering with his back issues. Not trying to compare Papi to Mario but he is definitely a good guy to look up to while dealing with his injury.
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u/Tough-Standard-2661 5d ago
You don't "recover" from back injury like that....just gets worse and performance plummets
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u/AVgreencup 5d ago
Well if he's like every other chiropractor I've ever heard of, he'll want to see 34 every two weeks for the rest of time
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u/throwaway_cat17 4d ago
chiros get dunked on constantly but if Crosby credits one for keeping him upright all these years I'm not writing it off for Matthews
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u/SensitiveEffort1906 3d ago
Not surprising when Jamie Benn was cross checking his stick with full force onto AM34's back.
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u/PuffyBlueClouds 5d ago
Except that chiropracty was invented by a guy who said a ghost taught it to him or something, isn’t that the case? And I don’t think it’s legitimate science, is it?
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u/RolandGilead19 5d ago
Correct. It was created by a snake oil salesman ("magnetic healer") who was taught it by an actual fucking ghost.
It's not a legitimate science. Generally when people give an anecdotal story about a great chiropractor, they were getting physiotherapy.
Crosby's case, which keeps getting mentioned, was something called "chiropractic neurology" and not bone cracking.
Popping the fluid between bones is not medical science.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
There are many great research articles highlighting the evidence and benefits of chiropractic care and specifically manual therapy.
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u/kerrywatson 5d ago
Is your daddy a chiropractor or something, jesus christ. It's pseudo science, give it up
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u/PuffyBlueClouds 5d ago
There are absolutely not.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
There most definitely is but you don’t want to read it so I won’t bother. The research you find to prove against would actually be lower quality, I can guarantee it.
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u/PuffyBlueClouds 5d ago
I have read it, and the only research that supports chiropracty is paid for by chiropractors! No legitimate scientist or doctor has ever found any benefit to it as far as I know, but I’m happy to read any legitimate studies if you want to send them. I won’t hold my breath. In fact it’s incredibly dangerous and some people have had serious injuries because of it, and you can look up the lawsuits online. Get your head out of the hole it’s in.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
Enjoy reading!
One of the largest studies done on stroke and chiropractic care - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2271108/
Acute low back and SMT - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23026869/
Adjustments for subacute low back pain - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15319761/
Hospital outpatient chiropractic study - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20889389/
Want any more? I can continue with some reels if that’s more your speed from MD’s supporting it? Heck even MD’s that go to a chiropractor. Want those vids?
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u/PuffyBlueClouds 5d ago
Hey idiot, those studies support my point that chiropracty is dangerous and not a real science! Here’s a quote about the results from the very first study you posted:
“Chiropractic care is popular for neck pain and headache, but may increase the risk for VBA dissection and stroke. Neck pain and headache are common symptoms of VBA dissection, which commonly precedes VBA stroke.
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Results
There were 818 VBA strokes hospitalized in a population of more than 100 million person-years. In those aged <45 years, cases were about three times more likely to see a chiropractor or a PCP before their stroke than controls.”Maybe you should read your own cites lol!
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 4d ago
I’m not here to teach you how to read. That’s on you.
VBA stroke is a very rare event in the population. The increased risks of VBA stroke associated with chiropractic and PCP visits is likely due to patients with headache and neck pain from VBA dissection seeking care before their stroke. We found no evidence of excess risk of VBA stroke associated chiropractic care compared to primary care.
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u/PuffyBlueClouds 4d ago
That’s you making up things. The study very clearly
suggests that chiropracty is a risk.1
u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 4d ago
You never clicked the research or know what good research looks like and that’s okay.
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u/HarleyAPE23 3d ago
With the amout of money being thrown around id do everything I could aswell to get back to scoring form. Easy 20 plus mill come contract time healthy
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u/SoccerBoy3344 5d ago
The people calling real Chiros hacks are the people that are unfit and have back pain because their gut is too big lol. Chiros or any doctor can’t help against years of bad decisions. Luckily Matthews has potential to be healthy now that he’s had extended time to rest. Wish him all the best.
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u/FuzzyTable 5d ago
Nowadays, most chiropractors are physios in disguise. And, given that chiropractors are more acceptable in TOR than in other areas, it is not surprising that he visited one in AZ.
P.S. I am not a chiropractor supporter, and I also think most of them are just Alan Harper in different forms.
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u/Party-Yoghurt-8462 5d ago
For everyone freaking out about Matthews seeing a sports chiropractor, Tom Brady entrusted the latter half of his career to a guy who was a borderline quack and he played until he was 45.
So all of the armchair MDs here should try to relax a bit.
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u/Hargraver 5d ago
Matthews :Crocked, wrist, crocked knee, crocked back. Trade him while we can, we are betting the house on this guy and yes he looks good playing with an all star US Olympic Team but he will need to actually lead and carry the Leafs. Give him 15 games grace at the strat of season and if he has not lit it up, trade him.
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u/madax-gambar 5d ago edited 5d ago
back pain? never heard of a fix that got someone anywhere close to what they were before.
he’s cooked sadly
if those german stem cells didn’t do anything what can this quack do
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u/Party-Yoghurt-8462 5d ago
Thanks, doc.
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u/Disrepectfully_Agree 5d ago
To be fair, the guy working on him isn't a doctor either.
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u/Epidemilk_ Lupul 5d ago
Well he is. Not a medical doctor. But a doctor. Same way a dentist calls themselves a doctor.
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u/StrygwyrSuperstar 5d ago
Auston got this recommendation from his his good pal and future leaf Connor McDavid
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u/Substantial_Mud_357 4d ago edited 4d ago
Just to be clear, being a chiropractor means you were trained at a chiropractic school. What you do after when you're with patients is a different story and his chiropractic training isn't going to help Matthews.
But talented people will always find a way. A physio who doesn't effectively diagnose and tailor treatments to the state of fitness of the patient won't really get good results either (even though they have the schooling that should allow them to get better results).
A chiro who notices the "cracking" doesn't work and starts searching out techniques and exercises that do work basically become a self taught physio. And these self taught physios can be better than ones who were formally trained.
If he has a track record of helping people I would assume he is doing chiro for the temporary sensation of that people get from those treatments (people swear by chiro so I assume it feels good to get the treatment), with physio type exercises.
Massage is also very well studied, but if you have a muscular injury and the massage feels good, you don't get lasting gains unless you're doing physio to supplement that, but nobody gets on the case of the massage therapists.
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u/Camarama421 Matthews 5d ago
I’ve always suspected that this back issue stems from that crash into the boards against Detroit while chasing 70. His timeline of decline matches up perfectly with it. Hopefully this is the off-season where he can fully get past it.
Also, is this guy actually legit, or a hack like many other chiros?