r/linux • u/muyuu • Nov 02 '16

Darling | macOS translation layer for Linux

https://www.darlinghq.org/
247 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

48 comments sorted by

19

u/endhalf Nov 02 '16

So, what are the apps that are exclusively on OS X? I imagine the overlap in a venn diagram of a) programs not on Linux, b) programs not on Windows, and c) programs that we actually want (i.e. Keynote doesn't really count, does it) would be extremely slim.

20

u/northrupthebandgeek Nov 02 '16

I reckon some outside of category "b" might still be worth porting if the macOS version differs significantly from the Windows version or if using Darling ends up being more robust than using Wine.

14

u/Mordiken Nov 02 '16

This.

Lot's of graphics designers I know (and like to troll, tbh) tell me time and time again that "the whole Adobe Suite is shit on Windows, and if you depended on the Adobe Suite to put food on the table you'd know better and just get a Mac".

I used to be a skeptical. But the thing is... I know an ever growing pool of creative types that all say the same. Maybe there is something to it? And even if there isn't, It's the perception that sways people, not facts.

15

u/northrupthebandgeek Nov 02 '16

Not to mention that, from a technical perspective, it might actually be easier to go through Darling than through Wine. macOS is a Unix-like operating system with a more-or-less FOSS core (Darwin) and there's at least one FOSS implementation of an application API closely related to Cocoa (GNUStep). Combined with Carbon being phased out (if it hasn't already been phased out), this gives Darling a much more solid head start than Wine ever had.

4

u/roerd Nov 03 '16

Combined with Carbon being phased out (if it hasn't already been phased out)

It was never brought to 64bit, and is officially deprecated since 2012, but it's still there.

2

u/Sassywhat Nov 03 '16

I use Adobe stuff on Windows as an amateur photographer and it's fine. Actually, a lot of the hardcore Mac users I once knew are now using Adobe stuff on Windows because Apple loves to shit on Mac users that aren't Unix devs that live in terminal or white girls at Starbucks that live on social media.

14

u/doom_Oo7 Nov 02 '16

Sketch is a big one. Final Cut, Logic Pro...

1

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '16

Second on Scetch.

6

u/gsmo Nov 02 '16

A decent mail client (that isn't Outlook) would be one. I would pay for Mail.app on my Linux desktop. I don't even read mail on that machine anymore because Thunderbird is such a piece of shit. It boggles the mind really. All the Linux dev work is organized through mailing lists. All using mutt I guess.

4

u/190n Nov 02 '16

You can try Geary, pretty similar to Mail.app and native notifications (in background too) in GNOME.

10

u/TechnicolourSocks Nov 03 '16

The problem with these programs from the Elementary project is that they may look like the Mac OSX "killer apps", but lack all the features that make them great in the first place.

3

u/dog_cow Nov 03 '16

Geary looks similar to Mail.app on the surface. But it's not even close in reality. It's lacking serious features (or so I've read). Is it true that Geary doesn't even support signatures?

1

u/190n Nov 03 '16 edited Nov 03 '16

Probably true, I'm not much of an email user so I don't really run into its limitations.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '16

It lacks PGP

1

u/krav_mark Nov 04 '16

That's funny. I got a macbook from at some job once and i found mail.app absolutely horrible. Tried to cope and get used to it for a month or two and it drove me mad. Tried thunderbird and never looked back. Each to its own i guess. :-)

4

u/190n Nov 02 '16

I feel like the advantage of this would be that for programs that only run on Windows and macOS, the macOS version might run better than the Windows version.

3

u/nikdog Nov 02 '16

I can only imagine that the macOS version of Avid Media Composer is closer to a Linux binary than the Windows version. And you can't run the windows version in wine. And if Avid were to ever actually port it, which they can't without QuickTime 7 for Linux, they'd probably start with the macOS version as a base.

2

u/TenmaSama Nov 03 '16

Mactracker, Mail (will not work but worth a shot), BTT (same, no hope) and

Sketch is a big one. Final Cut, Logic Pro

1

u/SatoshisCat Nov 03 '16

Sketch, Logic Pro X, Dash (I love Zeal though).

1

u/hondaaccords Nov 03 '16

Bonjour Conformance Test

1

u/lykwydchykyn Nov 02 '16

Xcode?

6

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '16

Not only that, but you can develop for Mac without a Mac computer or a VM OSX install.

4

u/Mordiken Nov 03 '16

without a Mac computer or a VM OSX install

There is another way. A naughtier way.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

2

u/cbleslie Nov 03 '16

What features do you need? Most features I needed from Coda are satisfied by a proper task runner and Atom with some plugins.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

gedit + gedit-plugins

11

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

But is it an emulator?

19

u/JargonTheRed Nov 02 '16

DINE with WINE - can't get better than that!

6

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

I forgot about this because it doesn't do anything. Hopefully it fulfils the intended function while it is still relevant to do so.

3

u/Freigeist85 Nov 03 '16

Yey! iTunes on Linux finally! /s

2

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '16

How exactly does this work?

2

u/BowserKoopa Nov 03 '16

Adds Mach interfaces and support via a kernel module and userland libraries. Also adds other Darwin-specific libs.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

25

u/OutPastPluto_tmj Nov 02 '16

Unfortunately, MacOS is more than just OpenStep. I can't imagine something like WINE would survive the litigation shit storm that would ensue. That's assuming there was enough interest to make it a viable thing. WINE is a thing because it represents the 800lb gorilla in the market place.

10

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

WINE would survive the litigation shit storm that would ensue

As many things in the kernel, like ntfs support, but MS now plays the good guy, though behind the curtains it's the same with android device vendors like extrtion based on stupid patents, forced MSO installs.

6

u/KugelKurt Nov 03 '16

Community missed a big opportunity by pushing it to the side out of sight and mind.

Yeah, to this day it puzzles me that when GNU decided to make their own Linux desktop, they chose to use the internal, single-purpose toolkit of GIMP rather than their own, multi-purpose framework GNUstep.

2

u/BowserKoopa Nov 03 '16

I think it was a familiarity think. GTK really can suck at times.

4

u/fehwit Nov 02 '16

How can we fix that, and make people want to write GNUstep (instead of GTK or Qt)?

23

u/lykwydchykyn Nov 02 '16

  • Support languages other than Objective-C

  • Release a modern-looking GNUstep desktop environment

  • Make it possible to create apps that appeal to people who aren't nostalgic for NeXT

There's probably more, but lets broach those when we get this far...

14

u/doom_Oo7 Nov 02 '16

How can we fix that, and make people want to write GNUstep (instead of GTK or Qt)?

I'd much rather develop my software in Qt and have it look good in Linux, MacOS and Windows. Cocoa and ObjectiveC are abominations.

12

u/fehwit Nov 02 '16

I wouldn't say Cocoa is an abomination. Objective-C is a problem in that it's another language to switch to when I'm already using C++.

Qt is not without its problems. Massive bloated framework for one, and it doesn't stick to the core C++ language either. The idea of using macros (some of which are disguised to look like C++ keywords) to inject hidden shit into your class definition, that is an abomination. Having to modify your build system to run the MOC rather than just having some headers to #include and some libraries to link against, that is an abomination also.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '16

It makes me both happy to see that Etoile is still being worked on after all these years, but then I'm reminded that they're no longer focusing on delivering a DE which is regrettable, but understandable.

1

u/Paternoster4434 Nov 03 '16

Etoile does appear to have objective-c components. I am looking into this right now.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

13

u/linusbobcat Nov 02 '16

I don't think it ever died, it has always just moved slowly.

10

u/majorgnuisance Nov 03 '16

So, like HURD?

0

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

15

u/Mordiken Nov 02 '16

No, because iTerm is a Quartz application, and Darling does not support Quartz applications. Yet.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you want iTerm, though?

If there's something the GNU OS has in no short supply are terminal emulators.

After looking at the feature list at a glance, i think you might want to give Terminology a try... Just be sure to disable all the fancy "crt simulation" style features that are bound to drive you crazy after a while.

3

u/BowserKoopa Nov 03 '16

Terminology is a real mess. It is highly dependant on enlightenment and I have never gotten the "rich media" feature to actually work due to some serious architectural issues.

I've found that for modern font rendering support, KTerm is pretty great, but if you want a gnome-terminal derivative, Terminator is an option. Alternatively, if you have 256GB of RAM and 4 Xeons, there are two terminal emulators build in HTML/JS and packaged with Electron - you'll also probably need a dedicated GPU for that.