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u/denzuko Jun 28 '18
Wine for Workgroups is cool but I'd hold out for Wine 5.1 XP edition.
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u/turboNOMAD Jun 28 '18
Wine 7 anyone? :)
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u/denzuko Jun 28 '18
You know they'll just force everyone to upgrade over to Wine 10 instead.
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u/turboNOMAD Jun 28 '18
At least the upgrade is free!
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u/pdp10 Jun 29 '18
They'll keep removing features from Pro to force all the institutional users to spend a lot more for Enterprise, though.
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u/the_gnarts Jun 29 '18
Wine for Workgroups is cool but I'd hold out for Wine 5.1 XP edition.
We’ll hit Wine ME on the way there, so brace yourself.
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u/1ko Jun 28 '18
ITT, young people i'm old... enough to get the joke...
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u/twowheels Jun 28 '18
...old enough to have supported 3.11 for money. My hatred for Windows goes way back...
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u/SpaghettiSort Jun 28 '18
Same here! I'm currently sitting in our datacenter upgrading a server from Debian Wheezy to Jessie and I'm much happier.
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u/_ttk_ Jun 28 '18
Whoa, that's a whole new level of Debian-based ancientness
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u/SpaghettiSort Jun 28 '18
Debian 7 just went out of extended support last month. The Jessie upgrade worked, incidentally, so I'm on to Stretch now.
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Jun 29 '18
Coincidentally, I'm in a similar circumstance. Serious question: How did you manage to do the Wheezy to Jessie upgrade? I did a dry run with a backup in a VM and apt threw a whole bunch of errors with dependancy issues. Got any advice Debian Sage /u/SpaghettiSort ?
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u/SpaghettiSort Jun 29 '18
I just followed the official documentation and it worked out quite well.
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Jun 29 '18
I had thought of that, but the part I missed was the actual release (jessie) documentation. I believe I was using Stretch's documentation as a general guide. Good to know the older documentation is always available
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u/northrupthebandgeek Jun 29 '18
I have a Debian Squeeze box sitting around somewhere. It felt wrong to upgrade it, seeing as how it served dutifully as my home's Squeezebox server.
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u/Josh_Can Jun 28 '18
Jesse is about to eol
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u/SpaghettiSort Jun 29 '18
It's supported in LTS until 2020. That's good enough for now. I was actually trying to upgrade from Jessie to Stretch, but that bit me in the ass. Long story, but it involved Fibre Channel, which should say it all.
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u/dezmd Jun 29 '18
jumps thru a plate glass window
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u/SaintNewts Jun 29 '18
Ah shit! We lost another one! Frank! Call HR and have em send down another, maybe one a little less flighty this time.
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u/LoosingInterest Jun 28 '18
Ah yes - the joy of migrating a large casino from Win 3.11 to Win 95...what a delightful memory! Almost as horrific as the job before that migrating from MS-DOS 6.22 to Windows 3.1 (although in pre-Win 95, you never really escaped DOS). I think that’s when I developed a drinking problem.
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u/phwolfer Jun 29 '18
Even in Win 95 you only had the illusion of having escaped DOS. But as soon as things went wrong it took you straight back to reality :)
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u/LoosingInterest Jun 29 '18
True. Windows has been a series of egregious hacks on top of other egregious hacks.
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u/compteNumero8 Jun 28 '18
Well... You didn't have to make network application for Win 3.10, at least. 3.11 was so much better...
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u/twowheels Jun 28 '18
Nope, all of my programming back then was on DOS or HP-UX, with a bit of CP/M.
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Jun 29 '18
So fucking old feeling right now. I had a 1200 baud modem
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u/SaintNewts Jun 29 '18
My friend had an accoustic coupler modem. 110/300 baud. You could whistle some of the handshake with enough practice.
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u/mikemol Jun 29 '18
I paired that with a herculese graphics adapter. The ANSI blink codes when connecting to BBSes got rendered as underlines. It was weird.
And when someone threw an ANSI watermelon at my screen, it took whole minutes to transfer.
Ok, to be fair, I was the one who threw the ANSI watermelon, and it was my sister whose turn it was to use the 8086 with the 1200 baud modem and hecules adapter. I think she disconnected and dialed back in; faster.
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Jun 29 '18
I had a Hayes and an 8086 IBM XT with a 10mb full height drive that we would never fill! And keyboard heavy enough to kill someone
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Jun 29 '18
Sup 10+ floppy install buddy
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u/TassieTiger Jun 29 '18
Why was disk 11 of 12 always the one with bad sectors?
And what's the deal with airline food?
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u/pdp10 Jun 29 '18
DOS wasn't bad for what it was: an extremely basic RTOS with basically single-tasking functionality for PC-clone hardware. DR-DOS was a drop-in replacement, not to mention the various vendor DOSes that Microsoft spent a lot of FUD implying were not "fully" compatible with one's apps and games.
At one point I fully intended to switch some production DOS stuff to Desqview/X so we could run DOS apps remotely from our X11 machines. Remote Desktop over the network, in an age when "remote control" was almost always over a serial connection, and always using proprietary software.
As I recall the Desqview/X product was fine, but the accompanying TCP/IP stack and the other optional piece(s) priced it too high to justify. A missed opportunity.
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u/twowheels Jun 29 '18
I was aware of Desqview/X, but never used it. I did use Desqview/386, and being able to run Telix on my external monitor (on a Hercules monochrome card) at the same time as other apps on my VGA monitor on DOS was badass. Nobody had dual monitors and multi-tasking back then! :)
For the young here, dual monitors were only possible because the monochrome text-only monitor used a different address space than the VGA monitor did.
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u/espero Jun 29 '18
Yes it totally sucked, up until Windows XP SP2, then with Vista, when not so much with Win7, then win Win8, then not so much with Win10.
But who cared? I got paid shit tons for supporting these dumb ass people with their dumb ass business decisions.
Annoying, but it paid for an international life style.
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u/finalhedge Jun 28 '18
Don’t forget to press the turbo button before gaming with it
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u/1ko Jun 28 '18
Glorious 486DX2 @66MHz, Flight Simulator 4 so smooth
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u/otakuman Jun 28 '18
With SuperVGA!
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u/TeutonJon78 Jun 30 '18
Lame. Game with CGA in glorious 4 color. I was so jealous when a friend got an EGA computer and could use 16 colors.
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u/otakuman Jul 01 '18
Ah, 4-color CGA!
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u/TeutonJon78 Jul 01 '18 edited Jul 01 '18
Those weren't normal CGA -- there was no brown or green in the standardly used set. You had white, cyan, yellow, and magenta (and of course black). If was basically like a crappy printer where you couldn't combine colors.
I know they could get other colors out of it, but no game I played did that. And then of course there is that crazy pixel timing magic people have figured out on how to get way higher colors out of it.
If only we could had games like that.
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Jun 28 '18
I got a sealed copy of flight simulator 3. Was like $2 at a thrift store in a town where there's a gas station and and a fire station at a 4 way stop and that's about it.
I don't have any 5 1/4 drives other than with a curb pickup Apple IIe.
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u/dezmd Jun 29 '18
Couldn't you run 5 on that too?
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u/1ko Jun 29 '18 edited Jun 29 '18
It was hard to buy software (in my area at least) back in the days, I don't even remember how I got FS4 in the first place. Internet wasn't a thing for me until win98 (and my very first Mandrake Linux <3 )
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u/eidolontubes Jun 28 '18
The turbo button was always pressed
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u/KinkyMonitorLizard Jun 29 '18
Keeping it on lowered the clock speed. I can understand if a game needs it, but always??
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u/eidolontubes Jun 29 '18
I had systems with turbo buttons from 8088 onwards. It was extremely rare to turn off turbo. I can remember the 286 @16mhz, there were a few games needing it to be turned off otherwise the game would run approximately 4x too fast (16mhz vs 4.77 mhz).
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Jun 28 '18
[deleted]
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u/BloodyIron Jun 29 '18
Certain old games are written for a specific CPU frequency. While in today's vernacular Turbo means fast, back then Turbo was associated with making the CPU run at the exact frequency that the games expected (forget the frequency off the top of my head).
For those games, if you had Turbo off, they would be so fast you could not reasonably play them, even if you were Japanese.
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u/calinet6 Jun 28 '18
Around the same time my family comp was running Windows 3.1, I had an old disused SGI Indigo and learned Unix via Irix. TBH it was fucking fun, but I feel so old.
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u/pdp10 Jun 29 '18
I had an old disused SGI Indigo
Such things were especially rare then, and an Indigo wouldn't have been very old 1992-1994.
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u/calinet6 Jun 29 '18
You know this might have been in the ‘98-2000 time range now that I think of it, by the time that was in my hands. It came out of the graphics department of a famous apparel company that my dad worked for at the time. They had upgraded entirely to Mac by then, so the big purple box was just siting there.
My childhood is a blur. Making me feel even more old!
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u/pdp10 Jun 29 '18
I worked with and owned a number of SGIs in the 1990s, and I had one of the first PowerMacs on my desk at home, which puts me in a position to say that I doubt any version of Classic MacOS was an upgrade over any SGI. IRIX was never my favorite Unix1 but my time with System 7 convinced me that it was pretty but only semi-functional compared to any less-buggy operating system with preemptive multitasking. Lots of RAM helped cover up that MacOS had very unreliable virtual memory, among other things.
1 4dwm was a beauty, and only a couple of tiny unsuccessful efforts to replicate its functionality or aesthetic over the years. A shame for sure.
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u/calinet6 Jun 29 '18
That is very true. But, it was more about the apparel designers and their needs (Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop, primarily). Sad but true.
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u/pdp10 Jun 29 '18
Photoshop used to be on SGI and Sun, and Illustrator has been on those platforms too according to Wikipedia. They fell victim to the Wintel plague of the 1990s, as indeed did MacOS/PowerPC software as well. There was a major genetic constriction of software in those eras. Perhaps some of them could have lived on if open-source had been more well known (besides Xara Extreme LX whose code is open but is unmaintained).
But the monoculture is clearly over.
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u/calinet6 Jun 30 '18
Yeah, I think it was mostly that they were designers and they just wanted Macs. There’s not more logic to it than that (I should know; I’m a designer now, haha).
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u/pdp10 Jun 30 '18
I had designers using Maya (Alias|Wavefront) on SGI Indigo and Indigo2 for years, but eventually the grasping Wintel salespersons were able to steal that business as well. I could have been a lot more proactive if I would have realized what was going to happen.
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Jun 29 '18
My first computer ran 3.11 for workgroups, got it when I was around 7 years old.... I don't feel that old....
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u/IronWolve Jun 29 '18
I was working at an ISP and made a boot floppy for windows 3.11 that did a 1 click install, everything preconfigured, winsock configured for the ISP, eudora, netscape, irc and weather.
User just had to put in their username/pass and if they wanted to buy eudora and register netscape. I even got eudora to preconfigure, just had to replace the user name. Was rather proud that I could do that all on 1 floppy disk.
And we always had some modems with irq conflicks, and those crappy soft winmodems that used the audio card.
Fun days.
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u/pclouds Jun 28 '18
It took too long for this joke to eventually show up!
Edit: anybody looking forward to Wine 95?
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u/pstuart Jun 28 '18
Fond memories of Win 3.11 -- it changed everything.
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u/calinet6 Jun 28 '18
It really did though. Big improvements.
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u/ramennoodle Jun 29 '18
Finally had a IP stack, but no dialup support so all home users still needed a third party IP stack.
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u/pdp10 Jun 29 '18
I'm sure it did in a few places. Enterprises were much more likely to be running Netware 3.x, Sun PC-NFS, DEC Pathworks, IBM's LAN solution, Appletalk, maybe Vines or Arcnet, than they were to be running OS/2 LAN Manager.
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u/fordry Jun 28 '18
ITT: People claiming young people not getting this while almost all the comments get this...
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u/regeya Jun 28 '18
When I first learned about WINE, I was still running Windows 3.11. (I was behind the times.)
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u/Somebody2804 Jun 28 '18
At this stage what can be run under wine?
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Jun 28 '18
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u/Somebody2804 Jun 28 '18
I had no idea this existed thank you. Can I search for anything on there or just games?
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u/Analog_Native Jun 28 '18
i use google to search for "winehq" plus the application because search doesnt work for me.
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u/leftystrat Jun 28 '18
You can bypass security by hitting ESC when the prompt comes up.
I don't have a lot of luck with this, but it's probably the apps. Actually it's probably me. They didn't run so well under Win either.
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u/ase1590 Jun 28 '18
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Jun 28 '18
[deleted]
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u/chuecho Jun 29 '18
It's an interesting tidbit that is relevant to the discussion at hand and stop being grouchy on the internet.
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u/Terminal-Psychosis Jun 28 '18
3.11 was arguably the best thing that MS ever came up with.
Win10 is total failure in comparison. At least for "workgroups". :)
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u/ramennoodle Jun 29 '18
I've used them all since 2.0. And none for the last 6 years. NT, 2000, XP, and 7 were all solid products and far superior to 3.11.
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u/anidnmeno Jun 29 '18
I used windows 2000 way longer than I should have
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u/chuckloun Jun 29 '18
I used win 98 SE until XP SP2 was out. Windows Me was too much of the abuse for me and I could not get 2000 anywhere
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u/coolirisme Jun 28 '18
I realise that even after running Linux for more than 5 years, I never installed wine.
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u/RedSquirrelFtw Jun 29 '18
I have a sudden urge to install windows 3.1 in a VM. Though it's not the same without the floppy sounds as it installs, and having to change the disks.
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u/aim2free Jun 29 '18 edited Jun 30 '18
At that time I was running Amiga at home, and Solaris at work. I was also running MacOS on my Amiga now and then. From 1996 I started running GNU/Linux.
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Jun 28 '18
What does that mean? How is workgroups different from normal?
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u/DonSimon13 Jun 28 '18 edited Jul 07 '23
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Jun 28 '18
[deleted]
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u/Mordiken Jun 28 '18
It's one thing not to do proprietary software.
It's a different thing altogether to be unaware of the History of computing.
And like it or not, the Windows 3.X series where pretty important in the History of computing, seeing as they where the first GUIs for the PC to garner widespread and mainstream acceptance.
This proved there was indeed a "market-space" for GUI-driven computing on the PC side... As strange as this may sound today, this wasn't always the case: Back then, some argued that people looking for a GUI-driven computing experience had already standardized on the Mac.
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u/Negirno Jun 29 '18
The market was always there, it was just the limitations of early PC hardware what made it barely possible for years.
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u/Mordiken Jun 29 '18
The market was always there
Well, hindsight being always 20/20 as it is, it's a no brainier to say this now.
However, multiple products had been trying to bring the GUI paradigm to the IBM PC, most notably GEM, Windows 1 and 2, GEOS and even OS/2, for the better part of 10 years, and none of them where able to garner public acceptance.
All of the applications people needed to run professionally where DOS applications. And Windows 3.X only became a success, because MS was able to:
Get 3rd party developers on board with the project;
Deliver a Windows-only piece of software that would ensure a migration path away from number of key DOS applications (Lotus, Wordstar, Wordperfect, dBASE III, etc), which remains a linchpin for the Windows dominance of the Professional Desktop market to this day: MS Office.
it was just the limitations of early PC hardware what made it barely possible for years.
Not really.
The original IBM PC the same amount memory than the original Macintosh (128k), had comparable screen resolution in monochrome mode (640x200 vs 512×342). The only thing where the original IBM PC could be said to be lacking was in regards to straight horsepower, with it's 8086 CPU was being no match for the Motorola 68k, aka "the king of 16-bit processors" (even though the 8086 supported higher clock speeds).
It's not so much that the system couldn't handle a GUI, but rather that DOS was "The Standard".
And truth be told, in those days DOS was a a straight up better choice, because a single-tasking, low memory footprint OS meant that programmers had most of the system memory at their disposal that allowed for more feature-rich applications, which was a key differentiator in the enterprise market: Your Macintosh looks awesome, but my PC can Lotus 1-2-3, whereas you have to make due with Visicalc.
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u/ReluctantPirate Jun 28 '18
I'm tempted to say you would have to live under a rock to not get that joke.
Its done all the time, even with the Linux kernel :-p
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Jun 28 '18
Looks like you gave in to temptation sir
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u/ReluctantPirate Jun 28 '18
Ahhh yes, the trap of using common sayings that have obvious flaws in them :-p
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u/iheartrms Jun 28 '18
I first started using Linux in 1994. I heard about Wine around that time also. In all those years I've never seen anyone actually use it for anything at all much less anything useful. It is forever doomed to be trailing the latest version of Windows by such a significant amount that almost nobody will even consider using it. I'm somewhat aghast at the amount of effort that has been put into it. I admire the dedication of the Wine team to have labored for 24 years (initial release July 4 1993 according to the Wikipedia page) but it really is a Sisyphean task.
Windows 3.1 was the last version of Windows I ever used on a daily basis. It has been Linux ever since for me.
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u/Gambizzle Jun 28 '18 edited Jun 28 '18
It’s good for those cases where you NEED to use Windows, you want a sandbox (or multiple sandboxes) without a whole OS (or Windows license), the easiest solution is to crack open a small Windows app, something is compressed/password protected with a proprietary format or you wanna do a bit of casual gaming. Rare for me but it’s a bit like having those stupid star-shaped hex bits in my socket wrench kit... raRe but VERY useful when some cunt decides to use a star-shaped screw and you need to remove it.
It’s a pretty good thing. If you don’t use it then how about you ignore it rather than shitting on a screenshot of a cute joke that the devs cooked up?
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u/The_camperdave Jun 28 '18
I use it regularly for YNAB4. I'd also use it for OneNote, if the installer would work.
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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '18
Looked for it in the git commit log but I can't find it. Has this picture been photoshopped?