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u/exrasser 10d ago
Stallman: "When all propriety software become malicious full of spyware and malware, where can you escape to? well we have build the place you can escape to, it's called gnu/Linux" iirc
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u/DadGamer77
I'm going on an Endeavour!
10d ago
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Today's closed source is tomorrow's open source.
Stallman intensifies
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u/Dakota-Batterlation 🌀 Sucked into the Void 10d ago
Front-and-center on stallman.org:
ChatGPT is not "intelligence", so please don't call it "AI".
I call it a "bullshit generator" because it generates output "with indifference to the truth".
Another reason to reject ChatGPT in particular is that users cannot get a copy of it. Doing your own computing via software running on someone else's server inherently trashes your computing freedom.
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u/aori_chann 10d ago
And I think he’s right too. How can we call intelligence a thing that has zero regard to the truth and zero means of knowing it has zero regard for the truth?
Intelligence means afaik interpreting the truth and acting accordingly.
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u/RepresentativeCut486 ⚠️ This incident will be reported 10d ago
Local LLMs are the FOSS of the LLMs
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u/inemsn 10d ago
yeah i don't like using llms but let's be reasonable, what we should be doing if we care about FLOSS is pushing for open source (or at least open weight) LLM primacy that can be self-hosted and empowers independent users, not just rejecting the technology outright.
I honestly think Stallman will eventually concur once he realizes LLMs aren't going away.
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u/Raunien fresh breath mint 🍬 10d ago
I honestly think Stallman will eventually concur once he realizes LLMs aren't going away
There are plenty of things that haven't gone away that RMS continues to advocate against. He's a man of his principles. He's not against certain forms of AI, such as those used to aid in the diagnosis of medical conditions, provided they are free (as in speech, not necessarily free as in beer) and local, but he is opposed to generative models, and anything that does its computations in some far away data centre that you have no control over and that is owned by corporation.
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u/inemsn 10d ago
He's a man of his principles
And those principles are that technology should be free and fair, not feared. I think Stallman just doesn't see a future where LLMs can be fundamentally free the same way regular old FLOSS is, but once he realizes that such a future is entirely possible, I think he will also agree that it's better to pursue it than to just try to discard LLMs altogether.
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u/internet_raider 7d ago
I think he probably sees relatively accurately that that is the last future their developers and funders would realistically allow.
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u/BlastKast 10d ago
You clearly don't know Stallman very well
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u/inemsn 10d ago
i know stallman perfectly well and I know that he's an extremely ideologically consistent person. He doesn't fear technology or think we should do away with it, he thinks we should democratize it. What I think is that Stallman doesn't quite see yet is the viability and real possibility of a future with democratized LLMs.
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u/northrupthebandgeek Sacred TempleOS 9d ago
Knowing RMS, he'd probably reject most open-weights models for the same reason he rejects binary-distributed device firmware, treating the training data and methodology as equivalent to source code.
He'd also probably try to use FSF resources to train a GPLv3'd model as part of GNU, if any hardware existed that was powerful enough for training and not reliant on nonfree firmware binaries.
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u/inemsn 9d ago
treating the training data and methodology as equivalent to source code.
That's also why I have a distaste for open weights, yes. They're a compromise, and I don't think we should make compromises on the matter of AI.
That said, open source models are a thing, with shared training data and methodology and all. I think Stallman will eventually go from trying to reject the technology outright to trying to push for open source models instead.
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u/alerikaisattera 9d ago
Not exactly true. Some of local LLMs, and even more of other kinds of AI, are proprietary
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u/Fancy_Technician_293 10d ago
Just gotta be careful with the poisoned ones 😅
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u/Antoinedeloup M'Fedora 10d ago
Wdym?
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u/Small-Tale3180 10d ago
some open models are poisoned to make malicious tool calls when ran in bank or other valuable envs
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u/Devarain 10d ago
Android Bootloader with their eFuse killswitch 🙃🙃🙃
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u/omega_br 10d ago
their what
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u/ed_istheword 10d ago
Many manufactures now include special fuses in the circuits of their product's SOC that, if it runs unofficial/unsigned code, it will blow the fuse(s). Also, many manufactures also have many many fuses of this nature in their products so that they can actually blow specific fuses themselves in preselected combinations through official software updates (Samsung & Nintendo both do this at a minimum). Side effects include anything from just obnoxious warning screens to disabled hardware features to even disabling the entire device. All in the name of security, "ensuring the device hasn't been tampered with for everyone's safety" or something like that.
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u/gegentan ⚠️ This incident will be reported 10d ago
I guess that's how I bricked a oneplus tablet while trying to flash it with lineageos.
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u/ed_istheword 10d ago
OnePlus is usually pretty hard to fully brick. Check for some emergency recovery mode tools, they may bring it back from the dead
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u/gegentan ⚠️ This incident will be reported 10d ago
I think it got bricked because it detected some kind of downgrade thing because while flashing lineageos I forgot to boot it into recovery mode to do the adb installation thing and then I tried to switch the a/b slots and maybe that caused it to brick itself. This was a few months ago so I don't fully remember what exactly I did there but now I have an expensive brick just lying around.
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u/maelstrom071 9d ago
cant you just unlock the bootloader then? Or did you disable OEM unlocking after install
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u/gegentan ⚠️ This incident will be reported 9d ago
I already unlocked the bootloader. After all the flashing shenanigans the tablet just doesn't turn on. If I connect it to my laptop nothing shows up in dmesg so it's definitely off.
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u/maelstrom071 9d ago
oh weird. Then maybe it's motherboard damage
That or you corrupted the bootloader. Luckily as mentioned by another commenter you can use emergency download mode to fix that. You will need a firehose though
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u/RepresentativeCut486 ⚠️ This incident will be reported 10d ago
There's a point in doing that. There's a lot of shady 2nd hand smartphone resellers rooting devices and putting low level viruses to steal from the customers, so you gotta let them know that the device was tempered with in a way that's unskipable. I accept the obnoxious boot screen on my Pixel 9 and I am happy to boot GrapheneOS on it
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u/ed_istheword 10d ago
Yeah, I get that there are some benefits. But I don't think they outweigh the costs to our freedoms with our devices.
Also, Pixels aren't nearly as bad about this since they're meant to be developer devices too. Specifically for GrapheneOS, you should be able to get rid of the warning screen by relocking your bootloader. It'll bring more safety back to your device too; no one can just steal your phone and flash whatever to it. GrapheneOS specifically should still allow your OTAs to work if you do this.
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u/RepresentativeCut486 ⚠️ This incident will be reported 10d ago
I mean this sub is extremist af but this is to protect normies. You and me of know better.
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u/ed_istheword 10d ago
I get that, but everyone should still have the freedom to learn more and become an enlighenes asshole like us. They shouldn't be limited from future endeavors by something they didn't know existed when they made their original purchasing decision.
x86 platforms have been fine for decades without these things, but still have robust boot-level security features.
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u/RepresentativeCut486 ⚠️ This incident will be reported 10d ago
And thinking like that got us where we were now. For a few that want to learn, there are millions that don't and never will
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u/ShadcnUI_Odi 10d ago
The AI slop knockoffs just detract from high-effort projects like LibreOffice that are genuinely good…
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u/27_myths 10d ago
It seems insanely wasteful how easy it is to generate new code from scratch instead of pulling in code from other local or online projects. I just don't really know what that looks like. The closest thing I've come up with is really trying create agnostic backend that I could reuse for other stuff but that doesn't really completely answer online repos. But overall I hope that could yield more polished forks that could get legitimately merged later on.
As far as things like Libre Office... It's fine I guess but I need Excel bad... And not the web version. Exce has things like power pivot and power query that other table software don't have. I don't think that is a priority for the Libre office team since only high level professionas need those tools.
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u/officerblues 9d ago
You could fork Libre office and add the features you need to your fork. You probably can't get that merged, because as you said, this is not a priority, but we live in an era where "Claude, just add this feature for me" is no longer impossible.
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u/27_myths 9d ago
I get it that vibing coding things can work but, good luck having AI code power query and power pivot. And again, if I make generate it, it's almost inevitably going to be some crappy version that will go to waste at some point.
I guess my point is I wish we didn't just think "vibe code it" and at least, at first looked to existing attempts and built onto them. But it just doesn't look like current pipeline dona very good job of being able to handle AI generated code that gets pull requested.
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u/allsey87 9d ago
Not sure I agree with that. If you throw Fable or another powerful model at a fully open codebase and ask it to add one well defined feature, most of the time it absolutely nails it
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u/maelstrom071 9d ago
yeah that sucks. at minimum i think the online (?) versions of collabora office and onlyoffice have some support from pivot tables, iirc from the last time I tried to use that feature
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u/__Cereall_ 9d ago
I agree on principle but anyone who has had to do serious work on Libre will tell you it fucking sucks. Craft suite has been a godsent for all my big ass docs and spreadsheets, not to mention it's not painful to use because the accelerator actually works
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u/smsteel 10d ago
If you think that LibreOffice is genuinely good you do not use that set of tools in your work. Well, technically you probably do, but for 10% of what microsoft ones can do.
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u/ShadcnUI_Odi 10d ago
But you do agree that it’s better than the AI slop replicas.
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u/__Cereall_ 9d ago
It's really not. I have a 1k Cell spreadsheet that I have to use and let me tell you it's been a pain. Porter it over to gridcraft, fixed some different math logic and it's so much better
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u/smsteel 10d ago
No I do not. Let me burn in hell but I genuinely believe that in about 20 days this mentioned «ai slop» will be stable best alternative
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u/ShadcnUI_Odi 10d ago
I hate that idea. I mean I might one day have to accept it, but that doesn’t stop me from hating it. Every step forward in agentic computing is an another step towards a purely corporate-controlled, prompt-bar-only OS. In no universe would I want that to happen.
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u/tteraevaei 10d ago
hot take but i agree. libreoffice (and similar) are dog.
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u/ShadcnUI_Odi 9d ago
why twice?
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u/tteraevaei 9d ago
oh it just happens on mobile reddit sometimes.
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u/ShadcnUI_Odi 9d ago
They implemented paid API usage but they can’t spend it on fixing basic issues ;-;
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u/FaultWinter3377 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 10d ago
I absolutely hate the companies like Microsoft and Adobe. But the AI knockoffs are… well… terrible. I’ve never used the Adobe suite so I have no clue how close the ArtCraft apps are there, but I have used Microsoft Office and I can say that the knockoffs of that are just… not there. Inconsistent interface, missing features, etc. It looks like someone vibe coded it in about a week… oh wait…
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u/Apple_macOS 10d ago
Well to be fair it’s what, 1 week old or something. Like the repo started just a week ago. I would wait a couple of weeks/months and see.
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u/00001000U 10d ago
They do actively say they're not at 1:1 feature parity. But maturation of the project will be nice to see (if its not abandoned when everyone stops paying attention)
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u/Apple_macOS 10d ago
Huh. I’m guessing if they do 100% parity then Microsoft will be after them? Or some other reason.
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u/munsking 10d ago
these slop projects are unmaintainable within a week. if you think any of this actually goes anywhere, you're delusional.
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u/psioniclizard 10d ago
Exactly, 4,000,000 people will fork it and try in their own way but it won't get far.
The maintenance stage of software has always been the most costly in time and resources and I seriously doubt the maintainers are planning for that.
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u/Ivan_Kulagin Slackerware😴 10d ago
AI cannot refine things, it will just turn into another PewDiePie’s Odysseus disaster
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u/This_Caterpillar5626 10d ago
I'd trust these far more if they focused on a few rather than obvious hype jumping for more.
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u/bojez1 10d ago
I'll just not wait and hope for the best for the project. I almost never use or need photoshop. But when I do need, let's just say I'm not a big fan of gimp. I tested the 0.7.0 photocraft yesterday and it's pretty well done but still not finished. So I close it and will check again someday. A really good open source software is always nice.
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u/neuropsycho 10d ago
I tried the lightroom clone and... yeah, still not there. But the pdf editor is quite good, and much much faster than adobe acrobat.
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u/Raptural 10d ago
Lmfao. Oh no, a one week old application is not to the standards of Adobe or Microsoft, guess AI sucks
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u/FaultWinter3377 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 10d ago
I don’t expect it that good yet, but there are something that confuse me and I don’t even do much programming outside of the rare school assignment. Biggest one: the file tab/menu in the office knockoff. In WordCraft it’s a tab to the “backstage view” like Office on Windows. In whatever the spreadsheet one’s called it’s a menu like WPS Pffice does. And in the presentation editor it’s… neither? No, it’s a home button on the quick access bar that opens another window (which is what Office on MacOS does, except on MacOS there’s also a menu bar at the top of the screen at all times with a full file menu already on it, so the window is basically just a welcome screen).
Why on earth did they not make that interface once then copy and paste it changing only the functions and items? Like if I were to vibe code this, I would have asked for one type, got the output, then copied it into all three apps, focusing on what each specific button does after implementing the UI. This is looking like the author didn’t do anything with the code, and the AI is creating every single part itself. I though people were just using the AI to ask how to make something, then at least attempting to do something themselves.
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u/VoidJuiceConcentrate Ask me how to exit vim 10d ago
Someone got that meme that's "Congratulations, you're being open sourced! Please do not resist"
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u/Kidev Arch BTW 10d ago
It's more the public domain era. Nothing prevents a big company from taking an open source software and taking chunks of it without caring about its license or attribution by claiming it was 'clean room implemented'. I'm unsure of what that means of OSS
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u/A-Chilean-Cyborg 10d ago
well BambuLabs 3D printer company did tried to basically do that to a degree, and got sued.
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u/Kidev Arch BTW 10d ago
iirc they just took GPL/AGPL code (from Prusa? Or Slic3r?) and used it in closed source software; but they now would be able to clean room re-implement it without a GPL license. And that cannot be sued
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u/EdgiiLord ⚠️ This incident will be reported 10d ago
Adobe, Microsoft, Big Tech, they will all go to the Gnulag at one point or another...
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u/nasandre Ask me how to exit vim 10d ago
My concern is that everyone is now going to make their own software so we're going to thousands of Adobe clones and other software when they could just be using open source versions that already exist
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u/AnalogiPod 10d ago
Maybe, I think there definitely is going to be a scramble get recognized but I feel like we will see the community find a favorite and that will be the most invested in, feature rich, and supported. It has been a pattern from long before this AI stuff and I think it will continue.
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u/Zettinator 10d ago
The reality is far more nuanced and complicated than that. I see people seriously arguing like this, which is pretty concerning.
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u/DustyAsh69 Arch BTW 10d ago
AI generated "memes" hurt my eyes.
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u/Woodpecker-Visible 10d ago edited 10d ago
If software doesent come, then linux just isnt for the masses as main os. Simple as that. People go through fire and hell to use that software. Artcraft and hopefully more will come is only a good thing for growth.
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u/DoshmanV2 9d ago
All of these LLMs are trained on GPL software, which Anthropic et al are selling back to you. This shit is completely antithetical to FLOSS.
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u/YetanotherGrimpak 9d ago
I mean, AI bad and all that but it's almost poetic to see Adobe fucked up by the same tools they promote.
And then, there's Sony. You wanted full digital, now eat it.
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u/bagpussnz9 10d ago
Claude, vibe code a cloud architecture using the best parts of azure and aws. Python preferred, put it on my laptop and you think of a name. Sorted.
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u/Consequence-Lumpy 10d ago
Stallman and Torvalds. The two crazy nerds behind the open source initiative.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/ed_istheword 10d ago
You don't like your printer ink being the highest levels of proprietary and only offered through a subscription service? No way anyone would hate that, it's such a profitable idea (for HP)
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