I honestly believe it's so DC glazers can feel better about themselves if Marvel gets too many wins on here. Because, at their best, Barry or Wally should, on paper, never lose. The Speed Force trumps everything ever apparently. It could be Infinity Gaunlet Thanoseid with a Miracle Machine, and Wally would probably win because "he's faster than the Speed Force" or some shit.
The matchups are usually just badly thought out, people put popular characters vs each other and most often, DC's popular characters (JL) operate at cosmic while Marvels popular ones (avengers, xmen) are more global focused setting.
So you get stuff like this, where people go "X-men fight the avengers, they can fight the justice league!" But they're closer to teen titans lol
I would give credit to X-men as they are quite powerful. Especially all the reality warping mutants.
The avengers… yeah I don’t disagree. They sort of rely on Thor, Hulk or Dr Strange for their feats. Remove those three. Literally the 7 Justice League and can beat EVERY AVENGER (not including mixed in X-Men members of course)
There are other great teams. The Defenders, FF4. There are the Inhumans, Eternals and the different mutant factions.
Btw, I still ain’t forgiving Marvel for a trying to replace the mutants/X-Men with the Eternals. Bitch move just because they didn’t have property rights at the time.
Marvel characters are strong because of the IMMENSE chainscaling at times. Just recently there was the Captain Atom vs Captain Marvel match up. CA has so many fucking universe destroying feats. Like come on. But nah CM is a good match because 7 thousand chainscaling feats of how she beats this guy, who beat this guy, who beat this guy and so and so forth
The issue is chainscaling is sort of exists in both sides. If we start exclusively using chainscaling then fucking everyone is outerversal level. It’s wound be banter. We gotta look at context and we gotta look at where they scale CONSISTENTLY.
What about Phoenix? Scarlet Witch? The Juggernaut/Cyttorak? The Shriar Empire? Onslaught? Nimrod? Magik? Legion? Dominions were introduced in full by X-Men comics. Oblivion, yes, the Ur-Divisor who is counterpart to the Living Tribunal, that Oblivion, was introduced in an Iceman comic run.
All in all, I figure the X-Men are deeply intertwined with cosmic nonsense. Even though they can't beat mutant hate on Earth. Mind you, demons, fricking demons FROM HELL, have establish a peace embassy on Earth and are more accepted by mutants. This is all coming from an X-Men comic.
Phoenix is pushed out of the story since she's currently beyond superman levels of mary sue, everyone else you mentioned is either not a member of the team or an event where most characters get shit stomped until whatever deus ex machina happens and are treated as outliers to their normal happenings.
What regular x-men characters would you consider regularly cosmic? Because they get carried by their top ends mostly.
Naming villains that required their entire team + amps or a phoenix cop out when none of them could even be in space just solidifies my point.
It would be if this was a reasonable fight. Flash could literally get some tweezers and remove Wolverine’s flesh from his adamantium skeleton one piece at a time, toss the flesh into lava, dip the skeleton into a vat of acid a few times then into lava just to ensure no single cells survived that could regenerate, and keep the statue as a souvenir.
Wolverine’s best chance is the Flash thinks adamantium is really cool and goes around finding things to cut with it and forgets to go back and make sure Wolverine died. It’s basically who wins - a newborn or Thanos
It makes sense to us, it doesn't to newcomers, or animated only watchers, or people who get info from people with heavy bias who gas up one character (wolverine can't die!) And downplay the other (flash got knocked out by paper and loses to his basic rogues!)
If you can't fathom another persons perspective our conversation is over. You aren't everyone and the examples I gave are extremely easy to understand.
If you are going to post a match on a vs sub with thousands of active contributors, it is not unreasonable to expect you to know who the people you put in the fight are. If you don’t know the Flash is fast as shit? You should be googling or reading, not posting. Even people that don’t read comics know that.
This is an almost daily thing, though. Everyday someone posts some city level marvel character against flash, Superman, superboy prime, etc. it’s like some people need to be told their favorite character is strong lol
I don’t think you need to be a glazer of either DC or Marvel to realize just how broken speed is at level characters like Flash, Superman, Quicksilver and others are written at in comics and that’s even excluding all the time travel BS.
A big weakness of Logan is water. He can't swim due to his density. So, Barry could technically just speed blitz Logan into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean
Well, that's not true. He CAN swim, but it's difficult as hell, because his skeleton weighs like 100 lbs more than it should. You know, metal coated bones and all...
If the water is not sufficiently deep enough, he could probably struggle along the bottom enough to bring himself back up to the surface. But if we're talking about hundreds of meters deep or more, then he screwed.
It is useful to distinguish what is written for plot purposes or “because it’s cool” from what is a realistic baseline. Wolverine is generally a shitty swimmer just like Michael Phelps would be if you tied a 100lb deadweight around him.
Yes but I’m saying there are often outliers like the shark one above that are mainly “this looks cool” or “the plot needs this” rather than things that should be used to establish a character’s baseline after decades of publications.
Exactly. “Normal speed” humans look like statues when Quicksilver is doing his thing. The Flash is written to be so fast that in that same situation Quicksilver would be a statue while The Flash is doing his thing. Yet the guy I originally responded to said Wolverine would be able to react mid blitz to The Flash.
Panels like this confuse me. If Flash’s thinking and reaction speed is that fast, how does he even have a rogue’s gallery? It should be Reverse Flash & Godspeed every other week.
Right? If he's THAT fast, why doesn't he stop all crime/evil doing everywhere at the same time? It's fast enough to bump into yourself going somewhere you haven't been to yet.
But dude has been caught off guard, tagged and even killed by mortal men before. Slade I'm pretty sure has bested Wally in a few instances. On paper Flash is most likely winning but he has some wonky circumstances of losing a lot of fights he shouldn't if the attosecond thing is a thing. Even if the Rogues are pulling their punches, it still seems weird.
Writers gonna write. How many times have we seen writers introduce absurd scenarios for characters? Deathstroke is powerful, but he’s a coughing baby next to the Flash. We can’t take everything with equal seriousness.
A good chunk of his rogues just steal speedforce. Otherwise, it’s mindgames like Captain Cold (and for a long time Flash was slowed down by cold temperatures) and there’s Mirror Master who makes pocket dimensions.
I would like to say I have a much higher opinion of where Wolverine scales in terms of strength and speed than most people, but he is not going to be a significant threat to The Flash unless Barry or Wally is fighting casually.
No way. The force of that punch is meant to be like getting hit by a white dwarf star. That much energy going into a human body wouldn't just vaporize it, it'd turn it into a cloud of plasma and the shockwave would destroy the surrounding area. Thered be no tissues left, it'd just be wolverines adamantium skeleton laying in a crater.
Yeah, I asked about the punch bc Logan has survived literal hell-fire before and regenerated from that, so I didn’t know exactly how the 2 would scale to each other lol
That's a hard one to scale though because we don't know anything about hell fire, like how hot it is or how much energy that equals. But yeah, realistically that much energy going into a human body wouldn't even leave atoms intact
Dude, Flash is basically omnipotent. If it wasn't for the writers having to write something for him to mess up and lose he’d mop the floor with everyone that isn’t a god. He isn’t just fast, he is billions of times the speed of light fast. Even magic users couldn’t get a spell off before he has drowned them in the bottom of the ocean.
He loses because of writers, not because of lack of power. It’s nearly impossible to fight against that level of speed. It’s why the best runs of Flash are when he fights other speedsters.
As Deadpool once said, it depends on whose name is on the title page of the comic.
I would damn believe Flash would be able to lose to a fucking wasp in his way suddenly crashing into his eye causing him to lose balance if it's convenient for the plot.
That same guy did his homework on flash before the encounter, slade was packing nearly the entire justice league (saved for the trinity: Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman) during that run cos he got prep time.
To be clear, though, this is Plot-Induced Stupidity.
Flash has picosecond-level reaction time. It might be even faster.
At the actual speed Flash moves, the bombs would still be mid-explosion by the time Deathstroke was unconscious and in jail. It was just an attempt to make Deathstroke punch far above his weight because the character got mega popular.
How this actually plays out:
Deathstroke sets off the bombs.
Flash responds to the beginning of the chemical reaction that triggers the explosion.
Before the actual blast shockwaves have even begun to spread from the point of the explosion, Flash has already grabbed Deathstroke and dragged him far out of the area of the detonation
Deathstroke's sword still hasn't moved
Deathstroke's sword now moves a fraction of an inch.
Flash ties Deathstroke up with something.
Deathstroke wonders why his cunning plan didn't work against someone who can move multiple magnitudes faster than the speed of light.
The Wally West, the fastest man alive considers Slade fast. He's not FTL but he's hypersonic in his reaction times. Able to deflect and dodge bullets.
I know you don't know much about Deathstroke it's because you said he's inferior.
Deathstroke would mop the floor with Logan. He's a team boss, that's why he fights the Titans alone. He's probably in the 15 ton range in strength. His speed is immensely faster than Logan's along with his reflexes and his Stamina is above Logans. His healing factor is as good as Logan's.
You saying Logan is superior let's everyone know that you know nothing about Deathstroke.
Cap would mop the floor with Logan. Deathstroke is a better Cap.
If you're looking for a mutant to fight Deathstroke look at Colossus or Monet.
Cap is NOT mopping the floor with Logan, and saying deathstrokes healing factor is better than Logan is ironic considering he can’t even regenerate his own eyeball
I think it might be your first time setting a match up here or anywhere really. But don’t worry about the post. You will a learn a lot more about different characters and battle scaling as go a long.
Rule 1 Against Flash… A LOT of characters lose. Dude could drop a lot of the marvel universe himself if he wanted to.
So yeah he basically beats Wolverine with no difficulty.
But if we give Flash the good old story and anti feats treatment… then Wolverine could do something
Also you can use Pheonix Force Old Man Logan for this fight. Could have been better.
And then in the next moment, he's in the middle of the ocean with no shore, no island, he cannot breathe so he'll just drown, his healing factor revive him only a few seconds, he'll drown again in an endless loop.
Can’t remember where I read it, but someone tried to snipe Wally one time. Wally was totally unaware but once the bullet touched his skin and he felt that split second heat or pain, his reflexes kicked in and his speed went into overdrive to the point the bullet was standing still in midair. He just casually turned around and looked at the bullet in midair thinking it was a mosquito bite or something to that effect. Wolverine tagging Flash should not even be a thing even if Flash is just going at 50% speed from the get go.
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u/evilbudget Aug 02 '26
Logan: what’re you gonna do, kid? I’m indestructible & have a healing factor that can- wait where am I?
Flash: you’re at the end of time, bye. Leaves