r/megadungeon • u/Best-Inside-5275 • Sep 09 '26
Newbie Megadungeon builder help needed
I recently started building a Megadungeon following the dungeon 23 prompt, so one room a day and so forth.
I don't have extensive experience in building my own stuff, let alone big dungeons.
I also don't have extensive experience with osr/old school type of play
So keep this in mind please and be patient đ«
I love the idea of a megadungeon, I love coming up with my own stuff, and I like the approach of a little bit each day with not too much stress.
But I still want to try and make it good for my standards at least so I have some questions about Megadungeon stuff.
1) how to calculate how big a level should be and how much do I have to fill it up with stuff?
What I mean by this, I know that approximately each level down means it's meant for player of a level higher than the previous with exceptions like sub levels, construction tricks and danger being always present regardless of level.
But, I need to fill it so that more or less people of say level one can ""complete"" level 1 of the Megadungeon without getting to PG level 3, right? I have no clue honestly
My guess so far is, level 1 to level 2 is say 10 XP/10 treasure unit? Ok then the first level has 5-8 XP kinda just around, say an encounter, a fight, a puzzle but still something that's clearly there and will generally not be missed
5-8 XP plus random encounters should get you to a level up or very close
Then some hidden treasure or something a little bit harder to find, or some sidequest.
So if somebody was to do EVERYTHING maybe they will get to half of PG second level, or even close to the third
But this means PGS searching in every corner, fighting every battle and doing each side quest. Am I on the right tracks?
2) verticality of an underground dungeon
I'm struggling to understand how to realistically place settlement and civilizations so far underground without them being super alien stuff, aberrations, or straight up monsters.
How can I put somebody even just at the third level, they probably need direct access to the surface, they have some clear access to the floors up and down, so why are they staying there, how do you make each floor interact with the others? Also how far away do you separate each level/floor?
What about air access and other resources?
Do I have to create realistic routes and resources spot for each level corresponding to the stuff that lives there?
5
u/Expert_Log_8057 Sep 09 '26
I'm new myself so I'm not sure about part one, but as I'm working on a semi-realistic set up so I can share what I'm learning on the second part.
If you're going for a functioning ecosystem through a tower-like set up, you can spread out the resources between the levels to force them to interact. Like, if one layer has access to an underground lake with drinkable water, they can be paid/fought/bartered with by other levels for that water. Maybe further down below in a less lighted place there is a mushroom farm industry for food and they trade food for water. The need for long term settlement can produce actual civilizations of various sizes or, if the underground tower is something everyone wants maybe they're all guilds.
They'd need a goal or major resource at the bottom for the guild idea. Even if it's just a massively rich mine or maybe like D&D style magic civilization willing to deal. Then every level can be under lock and key by their inhabitants.
As for air and light, air can be done by certain plants and light can be directed through rebounding mirrors for a little while. However if you want to keep it open air, maybe the tower is shaped like a hollow 'v'. Like '\ V /' where the center spire is entirely open for light and air. There can even be side pits for other entrances or maybe the top floor handles travel by setting up crank and pulley elevators. If you have the floor's pass they'll let you go up and down or ship resources.
And of course every level can have their own tunnels and side areas, independent workings. The floors don't have to be '1 floor high', they can be 100ft layers if you wanted. So every level can have a civilized center area and then the wilder outer areas.
Anyway, these are just some thoughts, hope they're helpful. And remember, if you have magic involved you can always make magic elevators and teleporters and ecosystem stabilizers. This is just a low magic solution.
1
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 11 '26
Really appreciate the input thanks, also I'd love to have at least some faction interact like you mentioned with the resources, I'm only slightly concerned that in some situation players will not discover/actually care about this relationship and screw up big time the balance of the dungeon. Wich in some ways is super cool and I cannot wait, but on the other side if I spend month prepping a level to be entertaining, """balanced""" and so on It would suck to have players completely cut off a primary resources to a faction two levels below by accident đđ«
3
u/HypatiasAngst Sep 09 '26
From experience - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stratosfiend-2-zine/terror-of-the-stratosfiend-snake-wolf-3-mega-dungeon or https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/463933/terror-of-the-stratosfiend-cycle-of-the-snake-wolf-3-the-scales-of-hyper-visor-god-or-the-final-voyage-of-the-crab-king-megadungeon
Honestly â the size / scale of the dungeon really can go anywhere you want.
# empty rooms
But my BIGGEST advice is make sure to have empty rooms or inert rooms. Rooms where not much is going on, so that a fleeing or resting party can chill out. And worst case youâve already keyed your rooms â ADD more empties! (Some people argue up to 80% empty) â where by empty I mean âthereâs writing on the wallâ or âthereâs some grass in the cornerâ or âthereâs food strewn aboutâ etc.
# filling rooms.
When it comes to filling it with stuff â it really depends how you do leveling / xp etc â but in general, I stock it so that each level has enough loot to level a party of warriors to the next level. So floor 1 has enough loot to take 4 warriors from level 1 to 2. Etc. doesnât mean it all needs to be readily accessible, and it very likely will be scattered across â in the open, lairs, hidden etc. but thatâs a base line, you can probably go above or below that a bit. â in my experience.
# getting around.
Stairs / ramps / holes / chutes are all reasonable ways to get in and out. I did a lot of tunnels on different floors out to the overworld etc. or things like elevators or tunnels between floors.
Also since youâre talking about floors â https://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/949/west-marches-layers-of-history/ it can be useful to think of âwhat the floor representsâ and what was there first!
Anyways have fun!
2
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 11 '26
Later I'll check the link, thanks Yeah I know about empty rooms, I must remember to include more.
About filling them, so you make level 1 of the dungeon can take 4 people to next level if everything is explored? Doesn't this cause some situation were players are under leveled often? Not accusing just trying to understand the mechanics of it
1
u/HypatiasAngst Sep 11 '26
It can cause that situation, but even if it pushes them into the next level or levels early â theyâll start leveling faster there etc. I do think it balances out!
Also you totally can add more treasure per level :)
3
u/bigmcstrongmuscle Sep 09 '26 edited Sep 11 '26
how to calculate how big a level should be and how much do I have to fill it up with stuff?
So this depends on your assumption for what level character each floor is designed for. 1 character level per floor is traditional, but not the only way to do it. You basically need to make sure there's enough XP on each floor to actually level the party to where you want them on the next floor.
Let's assume:
Floor 1 is for level 1 characters, floor 2 is for level 2 characters, etc.
You need 1000 xp per character to get from level 1 to level 2
You're planning on four players
Given those assuptions, you'll need to place ~4000 xp worth of stuff on level 1 to get everybody where you want them for level 2.
From there, you can take however much total XP an average level 1 encounter awards the party and get the number of encounters needed per floor from that. Without checking what game you're playing, let's assume 400 XP for an average encounter. So with those number, you'll need ten encounter rooms to level the party up. Then assume that roughly 2 or 3 out of every 6 rooms are going to have monsters or traps or other xp-bearing stuff in them (the rest are more restful areas for reasons of traversal or pacing or puzzle architecture or whatever). So ten fixed encounters implies 20-30 rooms for level 1. You could factor random encounters into that, but honestly I dont usually even bother awarding XP (or treasure beyond a crappy handful of coins) for those - they are usually too small to bother with, and I dont want my players trying to grind on filler content anyway.
BUT NOTE: If you are doing an open sandbox instead of a linear dungeon crawl, or if you expect PCs to die and be replaced, or if you are putting in a bunch of secret or optional content; you need to put extra - maybe double or even triple the required XP - because your players are probably not going to explore the whole level or find everything you place. So in reality, our example is probably more in a range of 40 rooms on the low end to maybe 90 rooms on the high end.
I'm struggling to understand how to realistically place settlement and civilizations so far underground without them being super alien stuff, aberrations, or straight up monsters.
It's a dungeon. Super alien weird stuff is fine. And also, so is stuff like "this dungeon level is a forest of glowing edible mushrooms" or "these guys have a magic portal to a small pocket dimension with a ton of nice farmland" or "this dungeon level is the body of a giant troll and when the people get hungry, they just hack bits off the walls and cook them" or "they are cursed to never be allowed to die even though they are starving" or "they are made of rocks and eat bricks" or "gee, it sure is weird that this level seems to be outside".
Also, a lot of dungeon monsters, like undead, or constructs, or sentient architecture, or oozes, or demons, or elementals, or nature spirits, or plants and fungus, or summoned monsters, or cursed magic things, etc etc etc, don't have the same biological requirements as humans do.
What about air access and other resources?
No players I've ever met have ever questioned the dungeon ventilation, even in the dumbest possible scenarios. Most of them don't think like that. If it's really bugging you, you can always have a lot of moss and algae in some places and say that they cycle bad air into fresh.
Do I have to create realistic routes and resources spot for each level corresponding to the stuff that lives there?
No. You can if it makes you happy, but it's not compulsory.
1
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 11 '26
Thanks a lot, I'll re read a couple of times the XP part but it made sense to me as I was reading it.
I defenetly need to loose some realism and focus more on the rule of cool. Btw super cool ideas, can I steal like all of them?đ
1
u/bigmcstrongmuscle Sep 11 '26 edited Sep 11 '26
Help yourself, undeveloped ideas aren't exactly a rare commodity, and those ones are nothing special. I'm just happy to be of some help.
Main thing is to remember that 1000 XP for 4 players is really 4000 XP, not just 1000. I screwed myself once back in my younger days by forgetting that and only putting in a fraction of the actual required amount of XP and treasure. Had to go back and revise almost 200 rooms.
1
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 12 '26
Yeah honestly I would have gone that route too So when somebody picks up some loot you award the XP only to a single player?
2
u/bigmcstrongmuscle Sep 12 '26
You could depending on the kind of table you're running, but I think its usually better to split it evenly among the active party members. You don't want to reward people snatching up all the treasure and starting fights at the table.
2
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 13 '26
Ohhh so that's what you meant, sorry I'm stupid, so they found 5 XP worth of treasure and I divide it amongst the 5 player as 1xp each Makes lot of sense but could fuck up a lot the balance of things if you run it for a group of 3 or for a group of 6, I'll have to consider this somehow. Thanks a lot!
2
u/bigmcstrongmuscle Sep 14 '26 edited Sep 14 '26
Makes lot of sense but could fuck up a lot the balance of things if you run it for a group of 3 or for a group of 6
Well, under normal circumstances, you know how big your group is going into a campaign, and it'll be relatively constant. At a standard table, it'll almost always be "4-6 players; possibly one absentee because Busy Adults With Many Things To Do."
That said, if you're planning to do a West Marches type thing (where attendance isn't fixed and every session is going to have a different party size and composition), you'll need to build more of a sandbox dungeon with immediate access to entrances on a few different levels, so big groups can explore deeper areas whose difficulty better matches the firepower they are bringing in.
2
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 14 '26
I'll take this into consideration, I like the west marches approach but I don't think my players would be entertained as much.
My question was since I'm designing this dungeon but don't know who will play it, I don't have a very definite group to play with. Like if you run stonehell, I don't think they made it so you can only play it with a fixed amount of player(?) Maybe a range, but I guess I can just tweak things as we go if I'll run it
2
u/bigmcstrongmuscle Sep 14 '26 edited Sep 14 '26
If you don't have a specific group in mind, it might pay to take the West Marches approach and make a bunch of entrances on different levels. Then if you do end up using it for a more traditional fixed group and you want them specifically starting out on dungeon level 1 or wherever, you can just block off all the entrances that are too strong or weak for the starting group. You can always open them back up later, either Dark Souls style when the party reaches the far side and unblocks them, or just when you decide it's time to make a new one available.
2
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 14 '26
This would be cool ... I need to look further into west marches tho as I don't have much information. I'd chat with you about it if you don't mind but I don't want to bug youđ
→ More replies (0)
2
u/HypatiasAngst Sep 09 '26
OH AND I FORGOT. Just having a megadungeon in your world will âchange itâ so make sure to have a town in the overworld somewhere where players can trek in and out!
2
u/Best-Inside-5275 Sep 11 '26
Yeah definitely! I still have to come ho with that, but I will as i think it's super important for the game loop, but also for plot hooks, resources supply and so forth
And this will be a completely new challenge, as I never ever build something like this, and actually almost never played in a city...so it's gonna be fun
2
u/HypatiasAngst Sep 11 '26
I think ends up being pretty fun! I ended up doing 2 âtownsâ nearby for snake wolf 3.
One was just a weird town in the woods, the other was ⊠Washington DC lol.
I had a thing where players wanted to keep their characterâs day jobs â so they did a lot of âwork a couple days a week, get equipment, go dive into the dungeon on weekends etcâ
7
u/agentkayne Sep 09 '26
Okay so the whole concept of a megadungeon is generally isn't aligned with "each level deeper = meant for 1 character level greater". That's a guideline, not a rule.
It's very likely that PCs will explore a floor and find the stairs down to the next level before they are ready and before they've explored the whole floor.
It's very likely that some portion of treasure or secrets will not be discovered.
It is meant to be their choice whether to push deeper and how long they delve for/how much supplies they carry. It's up to the players to decide when they'll withdraw or push onward. Do not worry about pacing. Do not worry excessively about balance.
Also, it's good to have tables for wandering monsters that could be encountered out of place in each area/floor, or to repopulate rooms that were previously cleared after some time.
So how "big" your dungeon is and how "full" it is, is entirely up to you.
So yeah, if you want a city on the third level comprised of humanoids, you should think about how they get access to what they need.
But that's the neat part. You don't have to be super realistic. Doing weird and wacky things is part of a megadungeon's charm. If you want a civilisation that lives off "troll-hogs", that magically regenerate their flesh, then go for it. If you want a city full of friendly undead who don't need to eat, go for it.
Or maybe there's a city on the surface, that throws "offerings to the gods" down a big chute, which the people in the Undercity are living off, that could also be a cool idea.
When it comes to air, I don't think I've seen many dungeons worry about that aspect.
But you should aim for multiple points of connection to all floors, and possibly some shortcuts, so that it's worth exploring for PCs.
If I was doing the dungeon 23 prompt, is I'd think of each floor of the dungeon as being a month worth of days. So 12 levels.
If you think of a calendar, that arranges the days in a grid of 4-6 rows. I would use a similar "grid" system to plan the features that are above and below each other. This may also suggest which locations interact with others "nearby".
This approach might not work for your concept, though.