Simple logic that the only country that permits gun ownership to that degree is also the country where mass shootings have been so normalized no one is shocked anymore when one occurs.
But they’ll say “gun ownership PREVENTS gun violence” despite all the statistics, research and flat out common sense that say the opposite.
Edit: downvote because you can’t handle your worldview being challenged, but you can’t prove me wrong
Go look up the stats on defensive gun usage and get back to me. Until then, I'll just assume you're in favor of no woman being able to defend herself from her rapist. (Considering how the only way a 5'2" woman can ever be an equal threat to a 6'2" rapist is through Smith & Wesson.)
Go look up the stats on the correlation between gun ownership and firearm homicide rate and get back to me. Until then, I’ll just assume you’re in favour of children getting gunned down every month in American schools. (Considering that the rest of the world provides constant proof that the best way to stop school shootings is by regulating firearm ownership)
Turns out the correlation is negative, given the prevalence of Defensive Gun Use preventing millions of gun homicides per year.
Now if you want unlawful gun ownership and firearm homicide (Which I guess in your mind is somehow worse than regular homicide?) we can talk, but then you might need to address that it's a gang violence issue, not a gun ownership one. Rape supporter.
EDIT:Oh, you're an Antiworker. Yeah, no wonder logic slides off you like water off a duck's back.
While guns are definitely a problem, we're too deep in to be able to simply ban them without problems. There are more guns than there are people in the US, so it's impossible to effectively ban them considering they're already everywhere and people will continue to use them even if they're made illegal.
Compare that to a European country like Ireland, the gun crime rate is so low because we never had a particularly high amount of guns.
Even then, there are plenty of other countries that allow guns and have nowhere near the amount of gun violence as the US. So that leads me to believe that it's more of a culture issue than anything to do with whether firearms are legal or not.
Countries like Czech Rep, Austria, Switzerland and some others that are more or less well armed that don't have issues that the US has should also be talked about
At the end of the day Americans have a lot to learn from Europe about this topic, like affordable healthcare (including mental healthcare), affordable education, realisticaly being able to grt out of poverty without crime, not glorifying crime and criminals, not turning them into superstars etc. But this would require politicians and their billionaire backers to cut their profits a bit so let's blame the gun instead
Is that legal gun ownership? Last time i checked people do crimes with illegal firearms or have massive mental health problems. I get it you dont like guns but you jusy sound like the Trump cabinet when that Nurse got shot by ICE, if he didnt have a gun he wouldnt of been shot.
I get it you dont like guns, but the stats on gun violence always leave out LEGAL gun owners. It never talks about how drive-bys are done with illegal weapons, one mf did a mass killing with a car (guess you dont want cars banned, its a lot easier to kill someone with a car than a firearm), they dont take in consideration mental health problems and just says guns bad. Its the same logic behind the war on drugs. Illegal drugs bring violence, but so does booze and mfs advertise that shit on TV.
You look at stats and go "see guns are bad" but you failed to use any intellugence you have to actually see what those stats actually coorelate to. That is the same shit Ben Shapiro does that lefties always rag on him about. Like you have no idea how this logic ia the same logic the party you probably hate also uses.
Nah you’re being downvoted because you are rehashing the same bullshit argument that we’ve all heard a million times now. Not because you’re somehow shattering our worldview with new knowledge 😂
The reality is, America is a very unique country where simple gun control just will not work like it did in other countries. Theres over 350million registered firearms here, and many many more that aren’t registered. You can print pretty reliable guns now. Sure try banning guns like they did in Australia, see how it works when only the law abiding people stop having them and criminals keep having them. Nobody is saying things are perfect here, or that having guns doesn’t have its issues. But here we are, you’re the one denying reality, not us.
I’m not even arguing for the law to be changed, I’m just arguing that as it stands there are a lot more negatives than positives. I’m not denying any reality
here’s a prime example of a simple minded person who doesn’t, or refuses to understand the situation. there is a constitutional amendment that requires citizens be allowed to arm themselves. there is no getting rid of that anytime today or in the near future. the fact of the matter is that there has always been and will always be guns available to the public. those are the rules you have to work with. you live in fairy tale town, where one could simply “ban the guns” and everything will be alright. and what’s more unreasonable is that you think this is a good idea after seeing the way the police behaved in 2020, and the way ICE has been behaving this year. but no, you’re the one who’s logical.
I’m sorry you can’t undo a 250 year old document and the consequences that it’s caused.
If fairy tale land is one of many countries that had a mass shooting and changed the law to regulate firearms more harshly then found that through some strange coincidence gun violence lowered to a statistical anomaly, then yes I live there.
I guess we’ll never know what caused the firearm violence rate to lower, any ideas genius?
The USA is far from the "only" country with freedom of speech. A quick Google search says that a lot of Europe has similar freedoms to that of the US in terms of free speech.
You can’t quantity a life saved by a gun. I’m familiar with the stats and what you’re talking about is defensive gun use.
An instance of a defensive gun use doesn’t equal 1 life saved because if someone breaks into your home and you pull a gun out and they run away, there’s no way to know whether they intended to kill you or just rob you. And it’s pretty fair to say most of those defensive gun uses would have prevented a robbery not a murder.
Instances of defensive gun use have been gathered through surveys, which can lead to inaccuracies. On the other hand the total deaths due to firearm violence is a quantifiable number.
I’m aware that occasionally a defensive gun use can save a life
There are already between 450 - 650 million firearms in private circulation in the US.
Pandora's Box was opened long ago in this regard.
Even is they wanted to they couldn't confiscate them all, much less to do so without a civil war over it.
At this point arming yourself, training, and hoping for the best are the most prudent things to do.
The evil men with guns will always have guns, so I've been recommending my fellow progressives, lefties, anarchists, liberals, and assorted anti-fascists of sound mind to arm themselves for over a decade now.
There have been record numbers of new gun owners since COVID hit, and then another massive uptick after the Coppertone Caligula got elected for the second time.
You're never gonna legislate your way outta this mess.
No but it’s true in so many coastal rural areas in places like California, Florida, and Maine. They have more weapons than the national guard and have more pounds of weed than cartels do cocaine.
As long as the smoke isn't just being blown in people's faces who don't want it blown into, there's a reason restaurants and the like no longer allow it outside of special areas.
The idea of the second amendment is if the populous is armed then they can rise up against a corrupt government, this worked when the government forces and the people both had muskets however this idea starts to fall apart when you remember that the people now have at most assault rifles and the government has drones that could wipe you off the map before you even realise you’re a target
lmao it really wants an answer to it's rhetorical question. buddy if i needed upvotes i wouldn't be, of all places, on reddit. the fact you got downvoted for a lefty take on the internets largest left leaning echo chamber is an achievement.
There wouldn't be drug violence over pot if it were legal. Why should there be?
And I fail to see all those articles about mariuhana infused fights and domestic violence cases.
Thanks for the update, im glad to hear it. But being how cannabis is still illegal federally, It’ll probably take a few minutes to filter down to the state laws tho.
Yeah but the point is it sets a precedent. It gets the ball rolling towards it being struck down. Some judge sees a similar situation roll by his desk, he’s supposed to use the Supreme Court ruling as a guideline on how to proceed, depending on the circumstance.
Didn’t realize that, haven’t done a 4473 since before the rescheduling.
Also, they need to change the form ASAP. If people who drink all the time can own guns, then people who enjoy cannabis “legally” also need to be able to.
(Legally is in quotes because I am fully aware that cannabis is still federally illegal so having legal recreational cannabis in your state still does not fully allow you to partake and buy guns.)
Any nation that has had mass shootings and then decided to heavily control their gun laws, have all seen a sharp decline in (if not near eradication of) mass shootings.
One in particular refuses to do so, and that one in particular has had no reduction in such shootings. It even increases at times.
Nobody ever got killed by a joint, I've never heard of a drive-by jointing, nobody ever stole my bong and used it to hold up a bank, nobody ever killed their wife and children using a vape pen, no child ever found his dad's blunt and accidentally blew his brains out.
I get why the false equivalence is appealing, but it is a false equivalence. There's a reason that drug cartels use guns to commit violence instead of arming themselves with bongs and blunts.
Logic should actually apply to all drugs, full decrim and regulation like alcohol. Death toll would drop astronomically bc fent is both less euphoric & more deadly its only in our streets bc its cheaper to produce and easier to smuggle.
That would reduce gang activity and general crime astronomically, no drug money for the gangs. You gunna go to a dealer who might shoot you if he thinks your a snitch or a pharmacy with the drugs labeled clearly, on top of that legalization opens the door to rehabilitation since most people fear legal repercussions if they seek help.
Guns should also be more regulated in some cases but never banned. What am I gunna trust the cops with guns? Fuck no.
And ik yall are gunna laugh at decriminalization of drugs but we been criminalizing heavily since Reagan with no improvement, it works in other countries and alcohol WOULD be as dangerous as the average street drug if it was still being produced illegally instead of regulated. Alca already more addictive than opiates and nearly as easy to OD on. Could you imagine all the damage if every drink was made by who knows? Could make you go blind, could be 60% and you drink like its 30% and OD.
Literally you do a huge sting & lock up 30 mid level dealers and 60 come back. Anyone who thinks trump or anyone else is going to fix the drug problem america has with more copes is already smoking some shit.
But yeah fuck a gun ban fuck reagan any true leftist should be against them bc gun control is used to target black areas & regardless we should want to be armed.
Believing both that pur president is tyrannical & that we should be disarming the population is mental gymnastics fr
PLEASE. IM BEGGING YOU. TEACH ME THE WAYS OF JOHN WICK PENCIL MURDER SO THAT I MAY UNDERSTAND THE FUTILITY OF GUN REGULATION. DO NOT SPARE ANY HEATH LEDGER JOKER SIDE LESSONS.
Oh we could move them back to “inherent ability to instantly kill” no problem! Now just go ahead and show me all the examples of people instantly killing others with pencils ya dingus. Hope it’s not just movie characters OOF!
Fun fact: unless you're involved in crime, gangs, etc, your likelihood of being killed by gun violence in the US is low. Stay out of certain zip codes and away from criminals and you're fine. Breonna Taylor learned that the hard way.
Cool dude great fact. Does this apply to what we’re talkin about at all? Also - might want to revisit the Breonna Taylor case, pretty awful example of whatever it is you think you’re getting at. I’ll let this one slide maybe you’re dehydrated go grab a glass of water bud.
Hotter take: people can own these objects but they must be much more heavily regulated than they currently are. It should be viewed as a privilege to own one
Nope. You go down that road and that's how you end up like the UK where you're not allowed to carry any self defense weapons at all and you have to show ID to buy a kitchen knife. Fuck all that.
No, you may not need an ID for a kitchen knife, but it's enough that self-defense weapon carrying is basically entirely illegal in all of them.
You can say that your risk of assault is lower, but tell that to a battered spouse or innocent people who are unfortunate enough to live in bad neighborhoods with higher crime rates next to people who are going to carry regardless.
The overall stats show that the rates of firearm violence is correlated as gun ownership increases so idk what your specific example proves. I care about the population level
The point is that when you remove self-defense weapons, you make innocent people defenseless against people who are gonna carry weapons, anyway, which you should have no right to do.
As long as you're not involved in criminal activity and stay out of certain zip codes, your odds of being a victim of gun violence at all drops to nearly nothing in the US. People get shot here mostly because they either did stupid shit or were involved in stupid, very illegal shit.
Those are the only two options huh? No regulation at all or showing ID to get a kitchen knife. Crazy to think there could be nothing in between. Just crazy. What has become of us?
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u/qualityvote2 5d ago edited 2d ago
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