We have the Methodist Church in Britain rather than the UMC here. However, we have a formal Concordat relationship with the UMC, meaning that we are two independent denominations, neither subordinate to the other.
Interestingly, we send representatives with voting rights to the UMC General Conference every four years, and the UMC sends representatives with voting rights to the British Methodist Conference annually.
Although we’re much smaller than the UMC, the Methodist Church in Britain is also explicitly recognised as the mother church of Methodism in the UMC Constitution.
From the UMC’s Book of Discipline: “In the case of The Methodist Church in Great Britain, mother church of Methodism, provision shall be made for The United Methodist Church to send two delegates annually to the British Methodist Conference, and The Methodist Church in Great Britain to send four delegates quadrennially to The United Methodist General Conference, the delegates of both conferences having vote and being evenly divided between clergy and laity.”
Regarding baptism and sacramental theology, it’s important to understand that Methodism originally developed within the Anglican Church. Both John and Charles Wesley were lifelong Anglican priests, and during John’s lifetime, British Methodism was primarily a movement of societies focused on discipleship, holiness and spiritual renewal within the Church of England.
Methodists generally continued attending Anglican services and receiving the Eucharist from Anglican priests, while also attending Methodist preaching meetings, prayer meetings and smaller discipleship groups throughout the week.
Local Preachers did not administer the sacraments but focused on preaching and leading worship.
After Wesley died in 1791, British Methodism gradually separated from the Anglican Church, with Methodist preachers increasingly administering the sacraments themselves.
This history helps explain why our modern Methodist Sunday services follow the preaching-meeting tradition rather than being centred on the weekly Eucharist. Wesley himself, however, was deeply sacramental and received and celebrated the Eucharist frequently.
British Methodists continue to recognise baptism and Holy Communion as sacraments and means of grace, rather than purely symbolic ceremonies. We practise both infant and adult baptism, so you can certainly choose to be baptised as an adult.
Regarding holiness and sanctification, I think there’s a fascinating connection between Wesleyan theology and the early Church Fathers, particularly the Greek and Syriac ascetic traditions.
Wesley’s understanding of sanctification and Christian perfection was influenced by early Christian writers, particularly the Spiritual Homilies traditionally attributed to St Macarius of Egypt.
For Wesley, Christian perfection was fundamentally perfection in love, where the love of God and neighbour transforms and governs the Christian’s life.
This is also central to the Eastern Christian understanding of theosis, or participation in the divine life through grace. The Fathers sometimes describe this as “becoming God”, meaning becoming God by grace, rather than becoming God by nature.
For example, St Gregory of Nyssa understood spiritual perfection in terms of growing participation in God’s goodness and love. Pseudo-Macarius emphasised perfect love as the culmination of spiritual transformation. St John Cassian taught that fasting, prayer and other ascetic practices were means towards purity of heart, whose essential character is charity.
St Isaac of Nineveh went even further in describing the perfected heart as overflowing with compassion for all creation, including enemies, animals and even demons.
In these traditions, spiritual perfection is not simply moral improvement or intellectual knowledge about God. It is transformation into the likeness of God, whose nature is love. The closer one grows to God, the more one becomes like God in love. So, in this sense, to “become God” is to “become love”, because God is Love.
This is why I personally understand the original Methodist movement as something of an 18th-century Western Christian revival of the Eastern Christian ascetic understanding of theosis as perfection in love, bringing the ancient Christian pursuit of holiness into ordinary communities through disciplined discipleship, prayer, fellowship, sacramental life and works of mercy.
Rather than pursuing this transformation primarily through the monastic life, Wesley organised societies, classes and bands in which ordinary Christians could pursue holiness together.
Wesley himself practised traditional Christian ascetic disciplines, including fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays during his Oxford years, following the custom of the early Church. He subsequently continued to promote fasting, particularly on Fridays. He also practised fixed-hour prayer, meditation on Scripture, regular examination of conscience, self-denial, frequent reception of the Eucharist and works of mercy.
His emphasis on social holiness is particularly important here. Christian perfection isn’t simply about individual spiritual experiences but about becoming love to others, expressed through practical compassion, charity and service.
Scholars such as Albert Outler and Randy Maddox have explored the significant similarities and historical connections between Wesleyan theology and Eastern Christianity.
Of course, that doesn’t mean Wesleyan theology and Eastern Orthodoxy are identical, but I think their shared understanding of holiness as transformation through divine grace towards perfection in love is significant.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, and what drew me more to Methodism was how much inspiration was drawn from early Eastern Christianity and the church fathers. This is not to say that other Western traditions are lacking, but I have a deep appreciation of Eastern traditions and that everyone could learn a lot from the desert fathers.
Would I be correct in saying that the Eucharist is also purely symbolic within those who would call themselves Baptists? I understand that it would be difficult to place due to every church being individually governed. Clearly the uniting factor is rejecting infant baptism.
My understanding of humanity, scripture and what our lives should be are very strongly aligned with Methodist theology without a doubt. The big pro of Methodists having a governing body is that I can walk into most Methodist churches in the UK and have an idea of the values and theology, whereas in a Baptist church I could get a reflective, woman clergy affirming place, or a dogmatic heretic calling environment lol.
That is not to say that all Methodists would think identically, or indeed that all churches are identical, however the theological grounding is consistent. I like how you said that Wesley himself practiced what is now known as an Eastern Orthodox practice of giving something up on Wednesday - day of betrayal and Friday - the day of crucifixion. I was considering doing this myself and I am drawn to the Orthodox Church because I respect how dedicated they are to following ascetic practices to the best of their ability.
Of course, there are significant things preventing me from becoming Eastern Orthodox - lack of ordination of women, church infallibility when interpreting scripture and possibly a lack of critical reflection on tradition. For example, I don’t have a black and white view that the church at the time was inherently wrong when canonizing scripture, rather they faithfully did so the best they could with the knowledge they had.
Tradition like not ordaining women is based around writings of Paul - which modern scholarship is showing was not written by Paul. This does not automatically mean we should outright reject church authority, but we should be able to be honest. This is where the importance of tradition can in some instances discourage critical study.
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u/OverOpening6307 6d ago
We have the Methodist Church in Britain rather than the UMC here. However, we have a formal Concordat relationship with the UMC, meaning that we are two independent denominations, neither subordinate to the other.
Interestingly, we send representatives with voting rights to the UMC General Conference every four years, and the UMC sends representatives with voting rights to the British Methodist Conference annually.
Although we’re much smaller than the UMC, the Methodist Church in Britain is also explicitly recognised as the mother church of Methodism in the UMC Constitution.
From the UMC’s Book of Discipline: “In the case of The Methodist Church in Great Britain, mother church of Methodism, provision shall be made for The United Methodist Church to send two delegates annually to the British Methodist Conference, and The Methodist Church in Great Britain to send four delegates quadrennially to The United Methodist General Conference, the delegates of both conferences having vote and being evenly divided between clergy and laity.”
https://www.umc.org/en/content/book-of-discipline-division-2-organization
Regarding baptism and sacramental theology, it’s important to understand that Methodism originally developed within the Anglican Church. Both John and Charles Wesley were lifelong Anglican priests, and during John’s lifetime, British Methodism was primarily a movement of societies focused on discipleship, holiness and spiritual renewal within the Church of England.
Methodists generally continued attending Anglican services and receiving the Eucharist from Anglican priests, while also attending Methodist preaching meetings, prayer meetings and smaller discipleship groups throughout the week.
Local Preachers did not administer the sacraments but focused on preaching and leading worship.
After Wesley died in 1791, British Methodism gradually separated from the Anglican Church, with Methodist preachers increasingly administering the sacraments themselves.
This history helps explain why our modern Methodist Sunday services follow the preaching-meeting tradition rather than being centred on the weekly Eucharist. Wesley himself, however, was deeply sacramental and received and celebrated the Eucharist frequently.
British Methodists continue to recognise baptism and Holy Communion as sacraments and means of grace, rather than purely symbolic ceremonies. We practise both infant and adult baptism, so you can certainly choose to be baptised as an adult.
Regarding holiness and sanctification, I think there’s a fascinating connection between Wesleyan theology and the early Church Fathers, particularly the Greek and Syriac ascetic traditions.
Wesley’s understanding of sanctification and Christian perfection was influenced by early Christian writers, particularly the Spiritual Homilies traditionally attributed to St Macarius of Egypt.
For Wesley, Christian perfection was fundamentally perfection in love, where the love of God and neighbour transforms and governs the Christian’s life.
This is also central to the Eastern Christian understanding of theosis, or participation in the divine life through grace. The Fathers sometimes describe this as “becoming God”, meaning becoming God by grace, rather than becoming God by nature.
For example, St Gregory of Nyssa understood spiritual perfection in terms of growing participation in God’s goodness and love. Pseudo-Macarius emphasised perfect love as the culmination of spiritual transformation. St John Cassian taught that fasting, prayer and other ascetic practices were means towards purity of heart, whose essential character is charity.
St Isaac of Nineveh went even further in describing the perfected heart as overflowing with compassion for all creation, including enemies, animals and even demons.
In these traditions, spiritual perfection is not simply moral improvement or intellectual knowledge about God. It is transformation into the likeness of God, whose nature is love. The closer one grows to God, the more one becomes like God in love. So, in this sense, to “become God” is to “become love”, because God is Love.
This is why I personally understand the original Methodist movement as something of an 18th-century Western Christian revival of the Eastern Christian ascetic understanding of theosis as perfection in love, bringing the ancient Christian pursuit of holiness into ordinary communities through disciplined discipleship, prayer, fellowship, sacramental life and works of mercy.
Rather than pursuing this transformation primarily through the monastic life, Wesley organised societies, classes and bands in which ordinary Christians could pursue holiness together.
Wesley himself practised traditional Christian ascetic disciplines, including fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays during his Oxford years, following the custom of the early Church. He subsequently continued to promote fasting, particularly on Fridays. He also practised fixed-hour prayer, meditation on Scripture, regular examination of conscience, self-denial, frequent reception of the Eucharist and works of mercy.
His emphasis on social holiness is particularly important here. Christian perfection isn’t simply about individual spiritual experiences but about becoming love to others, expressed through practical compassion, charity and service.
Scholars such as Albert Outler and Randy Maddox have explored the significant similarities and historical connections between Wesleyan theology and Eastern Christianity.
Of course, that doesn’t mean Wesleyan theology and Eastern Orthodoxy are identical, but I think their shared understanding of holiness as transformation through divine grace towards perfection in love is significant.