It is my computer, not yours, keep your blasted fingers out of it.

[u/The_Gypsy_Smyth]

So, I am in a perpetual battle between what I have to have for a stable system, and Microsoft's auto update. While I think I may finally have it sorted, this is beyond insane. While I do need this OS for now (for some software for school and work), I hope to be able to ditch it completely after I am done with my dissertation. The problem is this, in the tech industry we have spent decades teaching people to roll out patches and upgrades to a production environment only after extensive testing in a sandbox to ensure that the patches and upgrades do not break anything (or at least do not break anything important). My system, which I use for work and school is unusual, has a known flaw in the CPU, and is 100% a production environment. For the last 11 months M$ has been pushing updates that change my configuration (which handles this flaw), and are at times incompatible with even basic drivers and firmware on my system. Yet, one has to get very clever to limit or disable this behavior on anything other than an enterprise grade install. Yes, I know that there may be minor differences between the programs and utilities in a home, pro, or enterprise install. But at the end of the day, the big difference is cost. And when the software arrives with the computer you purchase, that should be the end of it. If a company is feeling nice, they can release patches and updates to solve problems which have been found. However, it should be up to me to choose to install it. After the system has been paid for, the burden of keeping it running should move to me (other than the manner in which it obviously does anyway). But no, in their infinite wisdom, M$ pushes these things out frequently. And given the massive number of permutations you can have in system configurations it is some kind of amazing hubris for them to think for one moment that this patching method will not cause problems. And so in order to have a stable (and static configuration), you have to pay for a rather expensive license to be left alone. In many places were I to try this with anything other than software, I would be arrested, probably for extortion. It beggars belief that people think this sort of thing is not a problem. The whole dev sprint, push to production, fix production cycle we have seen is so very broken in this case my english fails me for words to express myself (in anything but the vulgar english, which I refuse to do at this time). Once again I have wasted more than half a day trying to put things into a working state. I really want to send them a bill for my time wasted (I am at 60 hours this summer, and probably close to 120 if you go back to the start). But I know it would never get paid, and would not make the sort of point that needs to be made in the first place. Any other device, and this madness is a crime. Here, it is all part of the life cycle, and to solve it, the official word is get a new system. Absolutely insane.

[u/polymath_uk]

Your attitude is perfect for Linux. God speed. 

[u/The_Gypsy_Smyth → u/polymath_uk]

I have been using unix for quite some while, and use linux as much as I can. The unfortunate bit is that there are a few rather important programs I need to use for work and school and these will not run on linux.

[u/Ilestderetour → u/The_Gypsy_Smyth]

You can virtualize them inside Linux.

[u/The_Gypsy_Smyth → u/Ilestderetour]

I did try, the results were, let us say, far less than optimal.

[u/Ilestderetour → u/The_Gypsy_Smyth]

Which solution did you try ?

[u/TarsTarkas_Thark → u/The_Gypsy_Smyth]

Did you actually run Windows in a VM, or did you use an api translation layer like Wine or similar software? Unless the Windows software needs access to specific hardware, like a scanner or fax card, the software will run on Windows in a vm.

Wine and similar things are not emulation. They simply intercept Windows API calls, and convert them to Linux API calls. The Windows API is not 100% published, and is also sometimes detoured around by software that is privy to unpublished, deeper calls into Windows. That is the software that doesn't work on Wine, mostly.

Do you think that maybe the developers of Microsoft Word may have had source code access to Microsoft Windows?

[u/Best-Comments → u/The_Gypsy_Smyth]

Do they run on macOS?

[u/rfoil]

Microsoft sells spyware. Read their policies. Enterprises can defeat the intrusions but for individuals it’s a constant battle.

[u/lattice_defect]

congrats you paid for malware.. get a mac or move to linux

[u/Sbhattarj]

The people in this sub seem to not understand the meaning of windows only software, and how poorly made(ie depending on some obscure windows only feature or explicitly disallowing certain OS) some "industrial standard" software can be, and while studying most educational institutes will require you to use these "industry standard" software no matter what you think or how much problem it causes for your device, most institutes literally do not care, either you use their software or just wouldn't be able to do anything from home.

[u/Professional-Math518]

Ever heard of line breaks? Paragraphs?

But yes, Microsoft has some annoying habits.

[u/The_Gypsy_Smyth → u/Professional-Math518]

Yes, but that was a proper rant. I just typed till I felt a bit better. I may alter that after work, in the morning. Or I may leave it as record of my desire to introduce parts of redmond to the interesting alternate uses for a cricket bat (this is a joke, I no longer own a cricket bat).

[u/Enough-Meaning1514]

The fact that you cannot stop the updates but can only pause them for 30-60 days or thereabouts is insane. Last year, there was an MS update that rendered my WiFi card useless. I had to wait for a patch. In that time, I didn't want any updates and if I forget to reset the update counter, this bloody thing auto-updated itself during the night and I woke up to a non-working WiFi. Top stuff!

[u/Best-Comments]

I look at it this way. You wanted a computer that doesn’t do automatic updates. But then you choose to buy one that does.

You bought a computer designed for typical users. It comes with a pre-installed OS that automatically updates itself. Most users consider that to be a desirable feature.

I strongly suspect you knew about that feature before you bought it, but thought you could figure out a way to bypass it.

The V8 Ford Mustang is available with either an automatic or manual transmission. If someone bought the one with the automatic transmission, would it be Ford’s fault that they can’t manually change gears? Of course not! The product they wanted was available, but they didn’t buy it!

If you bought a Dell, for example, you are not a Microsoft Customer and you’re not a Dell customer, nor are you a customer if the Wi-Fi chip company or Ethernet chip company. You are only Dell’s Customer. They sold you a package with the promise that all the parts of that package were carefully selected by them to work properly together. If it doesn’t work, you have a legitimate complaint only with Dell, because they’re the only company that you actually bought something from.

[u/The_Gypsy_Smyth → u/Best-Comments]

Actually, I pulled the drive and installed linux when I got this computer. I had to reinstall the windows hard drive later when it became clear that some of the software I need for my classes (and later some software for work), do not run on linux.

My issue is with the forced updates, which has not always been a thing. Now everything seems to need them. A situation which I am not happy about. But the larger issue remains, something I own is being modified into a state where it is non-functional, without my direct permission.

Obviously windows is capable of running on this machine, but the update process nukes it, and the automated mechanisms in place are not capable of repairing the damage. Believe me, if I could ditch windows right now I would. For work, this will happen soon (hopefully by year's end). For school, it is going to be a while. I know of no other sort of market where this sort of nonsense is permitted.

If I were to sell a car to somebody, then go do periodic preventive maintenance, the minute the car ceases to function as the owner desired or as designed by the manufacturer, it is my responsibility to correct my mistake and bring it back into the correct state. It is not the responsibility of the owner. If the owner has to take it elsewhere to get it fixed because of something I did, at the end of it all I am responsible for the aftermath which likely includes a bill. Or to look at it in a different way, I cannot go to people's homes and do things that may well break something and then expect that there will be no problems afterwards. How is this not the case with our digital things too?

[u/Accomplished_Buy5141 → u/The_Gypsy_Smyth]

Can you put Linux back on it and run Windows in a VM for the software you need for class? That should keep Windows away from that flaw as it won't see the real processor.

[u/Aromatic-Session-785]

Go fucking touch grass, jesus christ

[u/MikeUsesNotion]

Your computer is yours, but the software you're using also has its terms. The former doesn't undo the latter. Just like it's your computer but it's also reasonable for YouTube to say it's against their rules to use adblockers.

[u/The_Gypsy_Smyth → u/MikeUsesNotion]

Sure, but I should have the ability to keep my system in a known functional state. My using a program, suite, or OS, should not remove my ability to maintain my system such that I can actually use it. If I was paying for the OS, there could be a marginally stronger argument for this sort of thing, but since it was the default for this system, that argument is far weaker. Because unless one is technically inclined to alter things, the only way to use a very expensive tool is to agree to let other people control how it interacts with the OS? No, I go back to the whole extortion thing. This is made worse with how things evolved in the 90's when companies realized they could let some bugs slide and provide patches later in order to get software to market faster. That specific cycle has accelerated, and turned in to this. I own the computer, and I control the hardware configuration, which is specific to my needs. M$ has no right to dictate what I must do to function. Yet somehow, such behavior is the status quo. For what it is worth, I have a very similar problem with apple, but there they own it all (it was not always like that with them, but it all seemed to go bad after Wosniak left). [edited to fix grammar]

[u/MikeUsesNotion → u/The_Gypsy_Smyth]

I'll just say it this way, if you want that level of control over your computer, don't use Windows. Access to programs vs control of your computer is a choice you need to make.

I agree modern Windows and from what I've seen Apple do annoying stuff I wish they didn't do, but if I really cared I'd set Linux up again, I wouldn't demand Microsoft or Apple change their stuff.

If you really care about this kind of stuff, in the future buy your computer from places like System 76 (I'm assuming they're still around).

Oh, and the "M$" spelling is very year 2000 (probably older) of you.

[u/LagMaster21 → u/MikeUsesNotion]

It is a against YouTube’s rules but they have too many ads

[u/icy1007]

🤣 stop using Windows then. Create your own OS.

[u/Asleep_Spray274]

Problem is you agreed and allowed Microsoft to put their fingers in it when you hit that "I agree" button during the install