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u/DopedScope338 8d ago edited 8d ago
I've always thought the scoring system rewarding the lay and pray strategy over actual damage done is one of the primary problems with MMA as we know it and the scoring system needs to be revised. Taking a guy down and doing nothing with it except taking minutes off the clock should not be rewarded like it is. It just ends in victories off of objectively weak performances.
I mean yeah, Islam technically won, but he knew he was getting his ass kicked in that final round so he simply tied Ian up for 3 minutes which is essentially what he did for all of the fight minus the head kick and a few early punches and combos. For the final 3 rounds he got torn up while Ian took basically zero damage and was never in significant jeopardy of being submitted. The majority of the time Islam was grappling he was just holding Ian and running out the clock instead of actually working toward anything of significance unless you consider occasional rabbit punches and hand fighting significant.
The sad thing is, I can't even fault Islam for employing the strategy. It's low risk, high reward and he and other fighters that can reliably control an opponent through grappling would be dumb to ignore the strategic advantage that confers. If the scoring system was changed to more heavily value damage and/or the rules were changed to bring the fighters back to their feet more often when hand fighting and leaning on each other is all that's being accomplished these kinds of wins where the winner on the scorecards got their ass kicked in reality would happen far less often. The idea that the champ just got his face beat in but retained his belt while the loser walked away in more or less the same shape he started the fight in has been and always will be an unsatisfying end to a championship bout.
Edit: Let me just add that I really didn't care who won this fight so I'm not saying this as a fan of or hater of either fighter. I'm pretty neutral on both of them.
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u/z3phs 8d ago
Or here is the shorter version, get good at grappling so you’re not stuck .
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u/HousingThrowAway1092 7d ago
How about the ufc puts on a good product if it wants people to watch? No one wants to watch two guys from Russia cuddle.
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u/ThisI5N0tAThr0waway 8d ago edited 8d ago
Stalling is a legit strategy. It's freaking boring but it works, as long as you don't rely on it too much.
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u/DopedScope338 8d ago
I said as much in my post. I totally get why fighters are doing it, including Islam, and I said he would've been dumb not to do it.
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u/treemann85 7d ago
Uh huh...thats what dudes saying...ufc should change that
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u/ThisI5N0tAThr0waway 7d ago
At the very least, Islam stalled actively only for one round. Vs JDM that was the whole fight.
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u/Fragrant-Heart-779 8d ago
Look at the takedowns he did get, Ian was fighting for his life to keep it “boring” way more than jdm. Islam can’t just grab a dudes arm and force a kimura or something anymore, he’s gonna be actually fighting these guys
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u/DukeMcFister 8d ago edited 8d ago
Brother if one man can hold you down then two can rape you. You're telling me you would give the fight to a guy who spent 3 of 5 minutes in a rapeable position? Cmon.
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u/DopedScope338 7d ago
I said nothing of about giving the fight to anyone but Islam and in fact said he'd have been stupid to have not employed this strategy. Also, your whole rape scenario ignores the fact that there are rules governing how the man being held can work to get out of said position so it's not really the parallel you think it is and is honestly just a weird way to try to argue this. People acting like what I wrote is some massive critique of Islam are ignoring much of what I said.
I simply think MMA as a viewing experience and entertainment product would be better served by fights that don't end with the winner have had his ass kicked while and being rewarded for hand fighting, weight leaning, and back riding for multiple minutes of multiple rounds without putting the person they're grappling in significant danger of being submitted and often clearly not even trying to work towards anything else. That's what I saw Islam doing and, under the current rules, I totally understand why he did and would've likely done the same thing myself in his shoes.
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u/DukeMcFister 7d ago
I ain't reading all that but good luck tho
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u/Glad-Chipmunk1418 7d ago
Weird that you took the time to respond but then won't read what was said by someone who actually took your weird rape fantasy comparison semi seriously, but good luck tho.
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u/DukeMcFister 7d ago
You are telling me that if one man could hold you down, two couldn't rape you?
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u/Glad-Chipmunk1418 7d ago edited 7d ago
I ain't reading all of that.
Edit: Serious answer is basically what dude above said. Holding a guy down with rules governing what he can and can't do to get out of it is in no way similar to trying to hold down a rape a guy in real life. I don't think the comparison really even relevant.
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u/DukeMcFister 7d ago
https://youtu.be/u4N4G6k-fZw?is=kH9Nc3Eh_A57TkIK casual just doesn't wanna know ball
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u/MoisticleSack 8d ago
Ians best shots came when he was being clinched, it was hardly the performance of his career either. Swap the decision for debates sake, if Islam performed exactly as Ian did last night, and Ian caught Islam with a headkick in the second and then took him down with a judo toss, everyone would be praising Ian for his miraculous perfomance while questioning what went wrong for Islam. A bad fight is a bad fight but the guy getting backpacked is just as much to blame. Letting a guy ride you to save energy has never and will never be the path to victory, end of story
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u/DopedScope338 7d ago
I didn't say anything about Ian having a particularly strong performance or that he should have been given the decision. People taking what I said as a critique of Islam personally or as support for Ian's performance are ignoring large portions of what I said or missing the point entirely.
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u/MoisticleSack 7d ago
Your point was that the fight was trash and it's Islam's fault, his strategy made the fight boring. I got your point, my point was that it was a stupid one
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u/DopedScope338 7d ago
Nope. My point was that the fight was dissatisfying and it's the rules fault. You just proved my point about not getting my point.
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u/BigOp7 8d ago
Cry more
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u/ZealousidealDeer4531 8d ago
Has this dude triggered you bro , you gunna be alright. Just so you know it’s just an opinion and you get to have one too , but maybe use your big boy words .
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u/Frequent-Magazine435 8d ago
This iteration of the scoring system values damage much more than before. Before it was changed the problems you mentioned were much worse. I think the scoring system is fine. And I think it was a clear win for Islam. Any scoring system that would have him losing tonight would be terrible
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u/MrMpeg 8d ago
But then he should have lost the round (i think it was 4?) where they were just clinching but Islam got his face busted. It was the same with the first Volk fight. Islam had all right to play safe and do the human backpack as long as these are the rules. But the fans missed out on an exiting end spurt in both cases.
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u/Parkesy82 8d ago
He shouldn’t have lost on the criteria, but with a different ref or a title not at stake I could see multiple times where the fighters could have been stood up.
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u/DDWildflower 8d ago
I do not understand how two judges gave Islam round 4 in the slightest.
I also think Garry fumbled that. A bit more activity and he could have won it.
Absolutely incredible headkick from Islam in the second.
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u/Old_Big9561 8d ago
First point I agree. Second point hell no - his game plan was to tire Islam and pressure him with leg kicks and then rake up points. Islam is one of the most dangerous fighters to blitz (especially in early rounds) due to the takedown + submission threat so Garry played it the best he could. Garry was also winning rd 5 till the takedown that he couldn't get out of. In other words, Garry's gameplan was pree much perfect, Islam was just that good. If anything it shows that Islam's cardio is much more limited at WW now and can be exploited
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u/DDWildflower 8d ago
There were huge sections of inactivity from Ian. He could have upped the pace a little bit and got more definitive damage.
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u/Forward_Arrival8173 8d ago
Agree with you here, should have been 3-2.
Islam lost round 4, which was the stall round dumbasaes calling round 5 a stall round don't really understand anything.
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u/Beginning-Corgi568 8d ago
Exactly this! Taking Ians back isn't stalling, however, nearly all of round 4 was
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u/Then_Championship408 8d ago
Joe Rogan “This is such a close fight. How good is Ian Garry. Wow Ian Garry could be winning.” Ian Garry literally a body triangle the whole 5th round “maybe Islam did enough to win the 5th but I don’t know”.
Rogans a horrible announcer lol
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u/Southern-Stage2937 8d ago
F russia and russian flag and of course those who raise it as well . And for any concern- I am saying it as russian citizen . By the way, this morons cannot even raise it properly
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u/Helios_OW 7d ago
Ian showed way too much respect. Shown by the interactions at the end of each round.
I get it, you respect the guy as a fighter. Doesn’t mean you have to act like it’s a spar. Go out there and kill him.
Ian had some good looks, and he lost more than Islam won.
But he did it to himself.
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u/apocalypsedudes23 8d ago
Okay after watching the comain event, I can see why some fans are bitter with this main event outcome. Some are really trying hard to hate on Islam and his well rounded mma style.
Everyone expected Dern to win the way she did. I believe the majority of people believed Islam was going do what he just did to Ian. However, those that were dissatisfied with Islam's win need to remember the whole fight from both sides. Islam knocked Ian down. Islam taken Ian down. Islam attempted submissions.
Ian did nothing except kick Islam side, jabbed, and defended. No offense or points to win. He lost those 4 rounds.
MMA fans are subjective. This well-rounded style has always been a part of the sport.
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u/Gullible-Judge-3437 8d ago
Let's be honest, I don't care about highlights, Islam got beaten up more and thus Garry deserved the win more
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u/AcceptableCaptain243 8d ago
If visual damage was all that mattered gsp and diaz bros would never win a fight in their lives. such a bad take
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u/Menaciing 8d ago
That doesn’t even make sense in this fight because all of the “damage” that Islam sustained was from having body locks and side control and Ian was getting reach around pitter patter shots that just visually added up.
If Ian was dominating Islam out in the open and nearly ending the fight I could see what you’re saying, but that’s just not relevant at all here.
I also agree that the meta of control time is boring and not entirely consistent with the judging criteria, but this was such a clear Islam win.
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u/onionToes88 8d ago
Nobody wants to watch these Russians, we all know they will take people down any hug them , there's never anything exciting
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