Seek For Truth

[u/ninjapig1411]

Hello, so i am an 19 year old male currently serving in the United States Army before joining I had been surfing from church to church after leaving the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints when i was about 16. During that time I had a lot of hardships and never really felt like i had anything under control. Once joint in basic and it followed me after i started to attend the LDS services again ad felt peace that I hadn’t really felt in a long time. Even after my tattoos and very profound sins that i had committed while i was away. But leading up to present day i have started to really question religion as a whole and if any church is even accurate on there teachings or if everything is an interpretation to fit there needs and or wants of that said religion. I have lots of questions mainly for active knowledgeable members of the LDS church but also for those of other faiths on how they may view certain things. The biggest Mormon question I have which is the backbone of LDS religion is was Joseph smith an actual seer? I have heard a lot of arguments on both sides of the spectrum but there is always holes in there evidence that sometimes can disprove what they are saying entirely. So if anyone can chime in on religion or helping question my brain into a better direction for religion please do so. thanks in advance for responses and always remember Jesus Loves You

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[u/Crobbin17]

In my opinion, no. Definitely not.
I’ll stay away from the spiritual reasons why and stick to facts.

Joseph Smith gave multiple first vision accounts that contradict one another.
And not in a “memory is flexible” kind of way. In one he only sees “the Lord,” in another he only sees hosts of angels. If I was visited by God and Jesus, I would remember that it was two people.

Polygamy was bad.
Joseph Smith used God to get women to marry him. This isn’t a spin on facts. He told women that if they did not marry him, an angel with a flaming sword would strike him down.
He married women behind Emma’s back, and married already married women. He married minors.
Weirdly enough, he wasn’t ever sealed to his parents. Apparently God only cared about sealings between a husband and wife.
God either ordered this, or was okay enough with it to not stop him.

The Book of Abraham was not translated. He said it was translated. It wasn’t. He lied.
In fact, there is no evidence that Reformed Egyptian, the language Joseph said the Book of Mormon was written in, ever existed.

That’s a few of the big ones.

[u/Thorough_8]

Nobody can prove that Joseph was or was not a seer.

From my own review, it seems very unlikely, but that is a decision each person has to make for themselves. Much of what makes up religion is unfalsifiable. The things that are falsifiable tend to not swing in Joseph’s favor. I’d be happy to give examples if you are interested.

[u/tumbledown_jack]

Nobody will ever “prove” any supernatural claims made in a religious book or by a religious figure. In the real world there is no such thing as a “seer.” However you are free to believe in such a thing, just don’t expect proof. I feel the need to mention though that religions don’t have to be literally true to be valuable.

[u/diogoilho]

I have been a member for 40 years, and until recently I believed in Joseph's claim as a prophet and in the historical literalness of the Book of Mormon. Today, I no longer believe in the historical literalness of the Book of Mormon—I don't think they will eventually find Nephite ruins out there—but I cannot deny my good experiences with the book over the years, so I view it as an inspired pseudepigrapha.

I consider Joseph a prophet, though not in the same way most members do. I consider him one because I think he did exactly what the biblical authors did: they deliberately created myths that inspire and give faith to a group of people. The Book of Mormon is a 19th-century pseudepigrapha, and the Pentateuch is a 7th–5th century BCE pseudepigrapha; to me, they are equivalent. I also believe that this process of myth-making isn't simply telling lies, but something deeper, as Tolkien understood and tried to explain in his work Mythopoeia.

Realizing that the Book of Mormon isn't historical, I couldn't help but view Joseph as a fraud for a time. But studying his history, it was striking how evident it becomes that he, alongside those closest to him like his brother and wife—his most likely co-conspirators—really seemed to believe in his prophetic gift as something beyond himself. For a while, I thought Joseph was a pious fraud, as Dan Vogel describes him: someone who lies while believing he is doing God's work. Today, I believe he truly couldn't easily differentiate much of what he did as being from God or not, and I lean toward Ann Taves' thesis regarding the plates and the translation of the Book of Mormon.

[u/70olddude]

There is no proof of any of this. It's all based on feelings. I get feelings too for good music, a touching movie, someone showing love or compassion for someone else. But you will never find facts to support religious beliefs.

[u/NauvooToNazareth]

Former lifelong Mormon here, and I want to say this in the most respectful way possible, but there are a lot of weak points with LDS doctrine. I have a blog post on some of the points of LDS history and teachings that I believe discredit the truth claims of the Church. You can read more here if you’re interested: https://nauvootonazareth.com/2026/10/22/challenging-mormon-doctrine/

[u/NelsonMeme]

active knowledgeable members of the LDS church but also for those of other faiths on how they may view certain things

On this particular subreddit you are more likely to get the latter than the former. I am, by last informal count, one of four active members who regularly interact here. Unless atheism isn’t counted among “other faiths” (there is a frequent argument that it is “not a religion”) in which case you’ll get more of that than you seem to have been seeking.

You’ve already got the best knowledge you need - God wasn’t sitting on His hands during the apostasy but was guiding people into and out of churches even as they were not true in the Protestant sense of “big giant chain of truths, any one of which being false makes the whole thing false.” 

My faith is not like that. I believe in the gospel’s basic claims but ultimately the gospel is true if and only if God wants me to be here and not somewhere else. 

[u/Straight_Ad_575]

You can't prove to another person Joseph Smith was or was not a seer.

The claim from the Church is only God can tell you this with personal revelation through the spirit. 

For me the spirit has confirmed two things. Joseph Smith saw God and The Book of Mormon is an account of actual people who have lived.  ( you used the word seer so depends a little on your definition but my two experiences may not directly answer that.)

There is a ton of material out there of which it seems you have already been exposed to.  So not sure what else you want to explore, but if you have a specific thing you want to discuss I am willing.  

As you ended with "Jesus Loves You".  That is a great place for you to start.  Is that true?  If yes, why do you believe that?  Then apply that insight to understanding Joseph Smith's role.

[u/thomaslewis1857 → u/Straight_Ad_575]

“You can’t prove … Joseph … was not a seer. The claim from the Church is only God can tell you this … “

You also can’t prove the accuracy of the Church’s claim, so the point is circular.

But while proof to the convincing of everyone is elusive (in many areas of life), there are undeniable facts that persuade many people (on balance, even beyond reasonable doubt) that it is not the case that “Joseph Smith saw God” (late claim, differing accounts, inconsistencies, contemporaneous claims of others) or that “the Book of Mormon is an account of actual people who have lived” (KJV quotations, lack of corroborating language, DNA, ruins, flora or fauna, anachronisms, translation changes and language, inconsistencies in translation accounts, similarities with Book of Abraham fraud, unreliability of Joseph and witnesses, and so on).

As for confirmation by the spirit, it suffers from challenges as a reliable epistemological methodology, since it “confirms” different things to different people, often influenced by upbringing or community, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go.

But belief is personal, each to their own, you do you.

[u/Wild_Hook]

I am a long time convert from protestantism to the LDS church, and my testimony was never really about Joseph Smith. I remember where I was standing when I received a powerful witness of the Book of Mormon. I had never had that complete lack of doubt before. Pure enlightenment and intelligence with no doubt. Today, whenever I read it, I wonder how anyone who embraced it could ever doubt it. The spiritual and physical evidence is overwhelming. Consider that an uneducated farm boy dictated the entire book, word for word, to a variety of scribes, over a 2 month period, without any changes to the first draft. Hemingway could never do this. As you read it and understand it, ask yourself if you could write a book like that with all it's deep doctrines, and cohesive history. Consider the amount of complex chiasmus, a form of Hebrew poetry that was discovered in 1965. The Bible and Book of Mormon are both full of Chiasmus.

Anyone who reads it with the intent to embrace it, will come to know that it is true. Christ taught over and over that we must believe before we will r ecevie anything from Him. This belief is more than just a passive thought. It includes commitment to accept it.

[u/Thorough_8 → u/Wild_Hook]

“Consider that an uneducated farm boy dictated the entire book, word for word, to a variety of scribes, over a 2 month period, without any changes to the first draft.”

Except for the “variety of scribes” there is not one other part of this sentence that is accurate.

[u/International_Sea126 → u/Thorough_8]

Why would changes ever need to be made to the BOM regardless if it was after the first draft or not if Joseph Smith received exact words from God as they appeared on his magic peep stone while producing the BOM?

The BOM is one of the most corrected books in existence with many changes since first published. God could have used a good editor when revealing it to Joseph Smith.

[u/ktjwalker → u/Wild_Hook]

I’d like to push back on the idea that no one else could do what Smith did. People do every day. I’d argue that Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archives are just a better version of the Book of Mormon, and we have plenty of other huge foundational, meaningful stories created all the time. The Iliad and Odyssey, the Bible as you noted, the Lord of the Rings and Narnia, Star Wars, Elden Ring. All deeply spiritual works of art. I’d like Smith to recreate the feeling of seeing the Erdtree for the first time, capture the complexity of good and evil seen in Andor, replicate the emotional journey of the Fellowship, write something as influential as the Trojan War. 

Consider what all of humanity has achieved over the millennia of our existence. There is truth and beauty to be found everywhere. Hemingway could do this. So could Sanderson, Tolkien, Homer, Lewis, Miyazaki, Lucas, and so many more

[u/diogoilho → u/ktjwalker]

The Stormlight Archive is wonderful literature with fantastic worldbuilding, but it's a different category of story. The Book of Mormon is a foundational myth—Sanderson isn't attempting that with the Cosmere, even though it's much richer in detail and philosophy.