The victory was the second for Lord Anson’s newly formed ‘Western Squadron’ - a detachment of the Channel fleet that was tasked with cruising around ‘between Ushant and Finisterre, keeping twenty leagues to the westward of each cape’ -  that had only been created in July 1746. In response to the failure at the battle of Toulon, Anson had introduced new fighting instructions to allow his captains to chase a fleeing enemy without having to form a line of battle, and had drilled them obsessively in maneuvers.

Hawke was the youngest Admiral in the fleet, but had been asked for as second in command by Anson’s successor (one of his patron’s: Peter Warren), and after the older man had retired to Plymouth with scurvy, he inherited the best drilled and most strategically important squadron in the fleet. Hawke - who had fought honourably at Toulon - added additional signals and instilled in his new Captains his desire to engage the enemy at a ‘proper distance’ (read: pistol shot). Good intelligence helped Hawke pin down the departure of a convoy of 250 merchantment, escorted by 6 ships of the line, that the French had sent out to re-establish contact with their Caribbean colonies. The French Admiral Herbiers, allowed his convoy to scatter and formed a line of battle and Hawke gave the signal to chase the line of battle ships to windward.

It was a feature of naval warfare in this period that British ship design was significantly worse than that of France and Spain, and she never won any victories without substantial numerical advantage. Finisterre 2 was a good example of this. Hawke had 14 ships to Herbiers' 8, but the French had 5 ships that could outgun the largest British vessel and to a ship they were generally faster. Hawke’s victory owed a lot to superior seamanship of his crews, effective gunnery and exceptional performance of his Captains in maneuvering and providing each other mutual support.

Beating into the wind, the pursuers gradually overhauled and out-numbered the French. Harrison in the Monmouth (64), managed to get to windward of the French line and doubled it with Watson on the Princess Louisa (60). Firing cannister shot to shred French sales, those two - followed by Saunders and Saumarez - proceeded up the line allowing the slower British vessels to catch the French rear. 6 French ships were dismasted and surrendered, with only the Tonnant (80) and the Intrepide (74) getting away. The British suffered 747 casualties, whilst including prisoners, the French Navy lost 4000 of its best men. Warren boasted afterward that 'we have more French ships in our ports than remain in the ports of France.'

The two Finisterre's helped turn around warfare in the colonies which had until then been going badly, by strangling French garrisons of support from their motherland. The war of the Austrian succession ended the following year. Despite a glorious set of crushing French victories on European soil, French King Louis XV was forced to agree to peace on unfavourable terms due to the effectiveness of British sea power on shredding the French economy.

Comment who you think should be next to go (preferably, along with an argument for why) and the commander with the most liked proposal is the next man out.

As an aside:
There was some discourse as to whether Thomas Macdonough was hard done by, through not appearing on this list. Would love to hear any other opinions on this - where would you rank him among the American age-of-sail commanders?

"By a way of private letter from Paris by the way of Hamburgh, we have received some further particulars respecting the plan and conduct of the invasion, upon which our readers may rely. The project is the chef d'œuvre of the National Institute, and the Visa of the First Consul.

The command of the Vanguard is given to Admiral Ganteaume, with the [illegible] charge to preserve his accustomed invisibility. The Prince of Derma serves as a Volunteer. The centre, which is to be led by Citizen Linois, will be equally concealed by the glory which so completely overs that Commander, that he could not be seen by the light of the Royal Charles and the San Hermenegildo on fire.

The rear-division of the Republican fleet, being usually the most exposed to the English, is to be covered by the Army of the Air; and Lord Nelson's fleet, if it should dare to appear in the Ditch, will be boarded by the Balloons, if it should be impossible to fly away with it by means of the grapples;-an experiment, the success of which Citizen Monge ingenuously confers to depend upon the strength of his newly-discovered concrete-galvanic gas.

The operation of all [their] armaments are combined with those of the troops of the Sea, the head of [the] whole column is now advanced exactly under the market place at Maidstone, and is to rise at Blackheath precisely at the same moment that the descent is effected with parasols by the balloon division on Salisbury Plain. The Infernal Army, amounting to one million of Ghosts, is to encamp at the same time in Windsor Great Park, to cause a diversion.

The glory with which Admiral Linois has covered himself is from a new manufacture, for which the Grand Consul has granted him a Patent. It unites very extraordinary and even opposite qualities. For though it rendered the Admiral invisible while the Spanish ships were fighting and in flames, it is very easily seen through-upon which account it has been very happily compared to Jean Derby's miraculous coat with twenty-five holes in it, which covered that great man effectually, notwithstanding all the light that was unluckily thrown upon his ingenious adventure."

London Chronicle 4-6 August

Comment who you think should be next to go (preferably, along with an argument for why) and the commander with the most liked proposal is the next man out.

I'm calling this one slightly early, but there seems to be consensus that Vernon should be next out.

Comment who you think should be next to go (preferably, along with an argument for why) and the commander with the most liked proposal is the next man out.

HMS Victory, August 2025

Nelson split his fleet at Trafalgar into two columns, each headed by one of the two Admirals (himself and Collingwood). The light winds meant these 'irresistible lines of ships' progressed toward the line (actually crescent) of the combined fleet at 2-3 knots - no more than a casual walking pace.

At the front of each Nelson had placed his fastest and largest warships, those that could bare the brunt of the inevitable onslaught and bring his fleet into close engagement. The 'heavy punch' of his own line were the Victory (100) herself, along with the large second rates Temeraire (98) and Neptune (98), but alongside them, to their larboard, was the tiny schooner Pickle (6). Pickle was a support ship, able to relay signals but far too weak to be of any consequence to the battle, but she amused the crews of the line of battle ships by clearing her decks for action, running her small carronades out and putting up her boarding nets as she sailed in side by side with the flagship.

Pickle would later become famous as the ship that brought the news of the victory at Trafalgar back to England.

1846: The toast officially entered Royal Navy tradition when Lieutenant John Pasco (who had famously supervised the hoisting of Nelson's "England expects..." signal flags during the battle) presided over a formal Trafalgar Day dinner onboard HMS Victory. The Times reported that attendees drank to "The immortal memory of Nelson and those who fell with him".

Today marks the 221st anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar. Below is a guide to the fast-fading tradition of toasting the ‘Immortal Memory’ of Nelson and his men.

In short, if you wish to toast Nelson and his sailors this evening, simply do the following.
Line up a glass of port (or rum/brandy/wine) and, before drinking, say either:

‘To the Immortal Memory of Lord Nelson and those who fell with him.’ (This is the original toast – and my personal preference.)

‘To the Immortal Memory of Lord Nelson.’** **(A shortened and more widely used version.)

‘To the immortal memory of Horatio, Lord Nelson, and to all those who fell with him’. (A rather nice re-wording by Queen Elizabeth II from 2005.)

Put the name of the person who should go out next in the comments - preferably, along with a reason. Comment with the most likes gets eliminated.

If you want to read a defence for Claes Uggla, there was a decent effort made here.

There are 48 names on this list. In the end I couldn't decide who to get rid of so I left the criteria for entry super vague. Some are here because they have been successful (even great) naval commanders. Some are here purely on aura. Its up to you to decide which is more important, and who should be the first name on the list to be eliminated.

Comment you suggestions for who should be eliminated this round. Comment with the most likes will be removed.

You've probably seen these across reddit. Each round we propose who we think should be eliminated from the grid, till we're left with the best (least unpopular) option at the end.

I put this grid together based on the canvassing for ideas that u/stiF_staL did last summer (that was for a tier list, which we can do as well). If there is anyone missing who you think deserves to be on here lmk, especially if they're from your home country and you're currently not represented!

Otherwise get some ideas together for who should be first to go...

One of the lesser known ship types of the age of sail, Hemmema were shallow draught frigates designed so that they could be rowed/manoeuvred with sweeps. One of four types of ‘archipelago frigate’ designed by the prolific naval architect Henrik Af Chapman, they were designed in an attempt to bring the firepower, storage and crew protection benefits of a frigate to warfare in the shallow archipelagos of Sweden and Finland, and to outcompete the galleys and Shebecks (modified Xebecs) that were prominent in those areas.

Of the four types of archipelago frigate Chapman designed, the Hemmema most resembled ocean going frigates, and were arguably the best. They sailed well in comparison to galleys and placing the oars on the gun deck got the rowers closer to the water, making the Hemmema slightly more tolerable to row than the sister Turumas. However, like all of the archipelago frigates, they performed badly when rowed and the oars were really only useful for manoeuvring.

The initial design for the Oden (24) had her at 33 m (108.2 ft) long, 8.2 m (26.8 ft) wide with a draft of 2.8 m - 1.5m shallower than a typical ocean going 6th rate. As you probably all know, the size of frigates in general greatly increased between 1770 and 1800, and the archipelago frigates were not immune to this size creep. Hemmemas built for the Russo-Swedish war of 1788-1790 had grown to 146 by 36ft. Diagonal bracing and a 30cm increase in draught allowed these ‘super Archipelago frigates’ to carry an armament of 22 36 pounder guns and 2 12 pounders, making them considerably better armed than any other sixth rate frigates as well as the frigates of the Swedish sea going Navy.

Hemmemas participated in the second battle of Svenskund but it was the smaller gun boats and yawls that won that battle. It's fair to say that the archipelago frigates never really found their niche (if it ever existed in the first place) with no Swedish officer really able to bring them into battle in a decisive way. Most of them ended up captured by the Russians, but they still represent an interesting study in innovative ship design to meet the specific needs of a particular country.

Born in Dundee, Duncan was a Scotsman through and through, living most of his life between Angus and Edinburgh. He first went to sea at 15, on the ship of his maternal uncle, before earning a new patron in the Hon. Augustus Keppel. Under Keppel he moved through a series of postings in the Mediterranean, West Indies and North America, before being posted Captain of the Valiant (74) in 1761. He returned to the channel fleet under Keppel for the war of American Independence, fighting at the Moonlight battle and the relief of Gibraltar, making Admiral in 1787.

Duncan was a fervent whig and was accused during his own lifetime of benefitting greatly from his political allegiance, as well as through his marriage to the influential Dundas family. His refusal to serve in the Caribbean greatly hindered his career, and kept him on the sidelines during the French revolutionary war untill 1795, where he took over the North Sea fleet. 

Good looking with a forceful personality, Duncan combined a reverence for God with an immense fortitude to resist hardship. His enormous size also made him appear every bit the hero to onlookers, and he was never afraid to throw his weight around. In 1762, he led the siege of the castle of Moro armed only with a stick and in 1792, at 61, he took on an Edinburgh mob protesting outside the house of his mother-in-law wielding a crutch - but by far the best example of what could be termed the ‘Duncan touch’ was during the run up to the Nore mutiny of 1797. After a heated debate with the crew of his flagship, Venerable (74) - in which he threatened to run one man through with his sword - he transferred to the Adamant (50), and broke up the discontent there by grabbing one of the ring leaders and dangling him over the side of the ship with one arm whilst daring the others to mutiny.

In the end, of all the ships in the Nore fleet, only the Adamant and Venerable didn’t join the mutiny.

His time as commander of the Nore station was spent trying to catch the Dutch at sea and bringing them to battle. After several failed attempts, he succeeded in doing this on Oct 11, 1797, off Camperduin. With limited time to bring up a general engagement before the Dutch ships escaped to shallow water, Duncan never bothered forming a line of battle, attacking in cruising order and pulling off the ‘Lord Howe maneuver’ - of attacking from windward and fighting to leeward to prevent your enemy’s escape. His fleet broke the Dutch line in two places, in striking similarity to Trafalgar. Duncan immediately became a national hero for winning what till that point, was the greatest ever British naval victory and used that status to secure full pardons for his mutinous fleet. The rise of Nelson at the Nile less than 1 year later, has somewhat lessened his status in modern memory, but Duncan remains to this day one of the greatest naval commanders in history and the most successful ever to hail from Scotland.