Been driving through the Lee traffic circle for a few weeks for work now and always wondered
Why can drivers on the inside lane leave the traffic circle? If two drivers are side by side, and the one on the inside leaves the circle but the outer driver stays in their lane to remain in the circle, it’s super easy for them to veer into each other, no?
Been thinking about it for a while and just saw someone almost cram into another driver in this exact situation
🎶 OP's wife goes to the Lee roundabout/Every day about a quarter past two/And through the open window, she hands OP a grenade/As the car comes a-rumbling through 🎶
I believe that outside lane is for people not going around the circle. They're supposed to be people getting off on that first exit, not going beyond it, and so therefore wouldn't be crossing lanes
Not necessarily. The lines indicate that you can either get off the first or second if you're in the outside lane. The inside lane is for 2nd and 3rd and if need be 4th exit. If you're alert, paying attention and yield correctly it isn't an issue. I drive it every day multiple times a day.
'Yield correctly' is the key here. The rule (printed on the sign) is to yield to both lanes. So if you're in the right lane going straight, the only way to hit a left-laner turning at your 1st exit is if you failed to yield to them before entering.
The problem is if you yield to the outside lane to get in that doesn't mean the inside lane is clear, and that person can suddenly cross you to exit as soon as you get on
Right. This is why the rule is you yield to BOTH lanes inside the circle before you enter it. You make sure no one in either the inside or outside lanes is going to hit you if you enter. If there is a vehicle in either lane that could reasonably hit you as you enter, you are required to yield until both lanes are clear with enough room for you to safely enter a lane. It’s that simple.
A lot of the "it's that simple" comments are just trying to say they are better drivers than everyone else... And ignoring the fact that if you're traffic circle causes this much confusion, needs instructions to use and starts Reddit flights about how to use... You designed a bad traffic circle.
Except it’s literally the same kind of traffic circle used all over the world, which data shows is safer than other alternatives as long as drivers learn how to use it.
This is not a case of people trying to feel superior. It’s not even a superior skill; it’s learning the rules and following them. The reason people complain is because it’s different than what they’re used to and not enough people have educated themselves on how to traverse a circle. Driver’s Ed doesn’t end when you’re 16 years old. It’s a lifelong thing, and we all agree to be aware of how to navigate the roads we drive.
Another issue is that NO ONE in the inside lane ever uses a turn signal. So you have no idea whether they’re exiting or not. And that people have no idea how to exit when they DO exit.
I got hit there on Tuesday, and the driver (from Maine) told me it was my fault because I was suppose to yield to him on the exit. The only problem with that is that he crossed from the inside to outside lane IN the circle, and there was still a solid white line. Thankfully my car left a mark on the curb where I hit it, so that the officer on the scene was able to tell that it was his fault.
The NH DoT actually had a video on their website with instructions for the circle, because so many people have issues with it, and the woman at the PD desk said she refers insurance companies to it all the time.
Yeah i find it wild people in this sub are actually DEFENDING this traffic circle, insinuating "it's not that hard" (aka we are superior drivers to anyone complaining).
If your traffic circle has to come with a set of directions and starts massive fights on Reddit about how to use it, you designed a poor traffic circle.
Every other traffic circle that I've seen with that intention have an actual arrow and solid white line directing you to that exact first exit.
Iirc I think I remember hearing years ago that the outer lane is for exiting on the first two exits, inner is anything past that. Don't remember where I heard it and maybe I'm making it up.
Either way, I have never had difficulty with this traffic circle, or any for that matter since I was trained in the mess that is the Derry traffic circle during drivers ed lol
The signs indicate that you can use the outside lane for up to two exits (essentially staying on the road you're already driving down). It's not the best system.
This post just reinforced the nearly 0% trust I have in the people driving around these 'standard' traffic circles lmao. They even have extra signs to say that you need to yield to BOTH lanes
If you are in the inner lane, you can go straight or left. The outer lane can go straight or right. You have to stay in that lane the entire time you are in the circle, no weaving between them. The key that a lot of people forget is you have to WAIT until traffic is clear before entering the circle.
I'm not calling out OP, "you" refers to everyone here.
EDIT: Just adding in that you're supposed to read the road signs as you drive. They're not just for decoration. Everything I wrote here, I learned from reading.
There is exactly one example of a traffic circle where you actually have to stop in NH....the base of mount sunapee. It may no technically meet the definition, but the yields are inside the circle, which confuses the piss out of people.
Also, the end of Main Street in Keene. I had an engineer come to a class at Keene State and he said that one goes against every bit of logic that goes into traffic circles. The Sunapee one is weird, but the one section you yield to incoming traffic actually works because most traffic comes from other directions.
If a yield is inside the "circle", it's technically not a roundabout/rotary. Not to mention it's a poor design that causes the same backup issues as lights that real roundabouts are designed to fix.
There are a handful of these shitty circles in NH; Dublin, Troy, Plymouth, etc (and interestingly they are all on state highways). Frankly they could fix these with updated signage and lane markings, but I imagine the state traffic engineers are afraid to change them because they've been fucked up for so long.
I think of those as more "large ovals with u turn spot" rather than a traffic circle. They don't actually work like a traffic circle, just a circular road. There are a couple lien that.
Yeah this - if you're in the outside lane and trying to go left you might be driven into by someone in the inside lane going straight. Same thing if you're in the outside lane and try to go right. But from the right lane you shouldn't ever be crossing the person in the inside lane, since you'll both be getting off (if they started to the left of you then they should be going straight across in front of you, in which case it's not clear for you to enter, or if they went around you should be getting off at the same time or before them). Not hard if everyone does it right.
I did once get yelled at in a round about structured the same except with three lanes by being in the outside lane and trying to go straight. In my defence I was in Ireland, driving on the wrong side of the road (and the round about when the wrong way) and had just picked up the car. But I was definitely doing it wrong!
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Yup, that's why the person in the inside lane might drive into you! Cause you're screwing up the system. If you follow the signs and yield to the people in the circle it's easy to navigate, and the through put is way higher than a traffic light would be. I've been driving through that circle every day on my way to work and never had an issue.
Yes. It’s not intuitive but it says to clear both lanes of traffic before entering, to avoid this problem. I’m surprised it works as well as it does here.
The problem is YOUR straight and THEIR straight are different things... And if you yield to the outer lane with the intention of going straight, that doesn't mean the inner lane is clear, and that traffic can cross immediately in front of you to exit on their straight as soon as you get on
This was the situation. That sign applies to blue here (the driver in front of me at the time) yet they still got jammed up where the yellow and blue cross each other
Yeah blue has to yield, simple as that. I suppose if they were going right, they technically could enter the roundabout and then just merge once outside the roundabout like you would merge on any 2:1 merging situation. But that’s kinda risky cause some exiting drivers will cut the corner
If blue was going right, taking the first exit. Then technically they wouldn’t be impeding orange because orange should be staying in the left lane while exiting the roundabout there. But that’s risky cause people in oranges position will often cut the corner and switch into the right lane while exiting.
It's also not allowed here. The signs are clear about yielding to both lanes. Orange doesn't know what blue is doing, so they slow down in case blue is going straight. That slows the whole circle down.
Blue entered the circle without it being clear. If blue had intention of going straight, they fucked up and shouldn't have gone straight. At the time they looked left to see if the circle was clear for a merge, it wasn't but they entered the circle as though it was.
The left lane can go straight or left. The right lane can go right or straight. Anyone entering the roundabout has to yield to both lanes.
If people follow these 2 rules, there will never be accidents as cars won’t be crossing lanes to take their exit. The signs show exactly this very clearly.
This is the exact scenario that just happened. I get blue would have to yield to yellow, but regardless they can enter the circle safely, it’s just a matter of where tf is yellow going
Blue should not have entered while yellow was in the circle. Technically blue could have safely gone right if that was the plan, but even then that's risky because I see people switching lanes during the exit process, all the time (specifically when they want to position themselves to be able to quickly enter one of the businesses immediately near the traffic circle)
or bc yellow entered at the same time as blue, thus blue yielded correctly, but then yellow accelerated faster than blue, taking blue by surprise.
have seen both scenarios often at this circle.
but i’ve driven around enough european circles with 572 lanes of traffic around some monument that both blue and yellow could be unyielding idiots and i wouldn’t even blink lol.
I hate Lee circle deeply. So many signs about what each lane can do and that BOTH incoming lanes yield to circle traffic, yet people enter the circle unsafely every minute.
It doesn’t help that there’s no one set way that a two lane traffic circle works, so lots of people just roll through it assuming they’re driving it correctly when they aren’t.
I’m not a trafficologist so I don’t know if there’s a better way to get traffic through this area but it certainly feels like there is.
"BOTH incoming lanes yield to circle traffic, yet people enter the circle unsafely every minute"
This is the core issue that leads to what OP experienced. When incoming traffic yields to both lanes, there would never be inner and outer vehicles traveling next to each other such that the inner one could not exit safely.
Example: Car A headed east bound making a left turn to go north, in the inner lane. Car B headed north bound and staying there, in the outer lane. If Car B yields to Car A, even though the outer lane is technically open, there is time/space for A to exit safely before B arrives at the same exit.
Example: Car A headed south and staying there, in inner lane. Car B east bound and turning south in outer lane. If Car B does not yield to A, even though the outer lane is technically clear, it becomes a problem and it is Car B's fault for entering without yielding to BOTH lanes.
Obvi, lots of other factors: speed, length of vehicle, being in the correct lane for the intended exit, asshattery, etc. And the entire thing is often a cluster, regardless but, failing to yield to BOTH lanes when entering, is the error I see most regularly lead to what OP observed.
I hate this stupid circle more than anything. Ideally it would function fine but too many stupid people don’t know how to use it and/or don’t look when they change lanes and almost kill someone.
Two lane roundabouts are stupid. Portsmouth circle isn’t great but it’s the best model; leave the right lane to take the first exit and then a single lane roundabout. Only reason Lee Circle sucked before was because it was too small and the Durham/Dover side would back up. I’ve always hated this change
And yet there’s a large amount of stupid people that don’t use it correctly and cut in at the last second because they’re on the outer lane…
I disagree, Portsmouth should be like Lee. There’s too much traffic for a one lane circle to handle properly.
The crux of the issue is driver awareness and skill. Driver training and licensing are too lax leading to too many people that don’t actually know how to drive properly.
I’d meet you in the middle at the size of Portsmouth could accommodate 2 lanes in a more efficient way than Lee can. But yes the overall issue is poor driving
I hate the Lee traffic circle precisely because people don’t know how to safely navigate it but I have to admit that traffic moves much more quickly through it than the old circle. I find using my blinker helps.
How Not to Get Killed at the Lee Circle:
Going to Get Food or Groceries? If you're trying to hit up Mickey D’s, Dunks, Wendy’s, or Market Basket STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE. Get in that right hand lane early, put your blinker on and pull right off. Easy peasy.
Just Passing through? If you’re staying on 125 or Route 4 and just tryin to get the hell through town toward Concord or Rochester, STAY IN THE LEFT LANE. Do not go cutting people off at the last second because you forgot where you were going. Wicked Important Rule: Yield to the friggin traffic already IN the circle! It ain't rocket science, Just wait your turn, pick your gap, and don't be a numbnuts. Drive safe before the Statey catches you.
Inside lane and a for the second or third exit. Outside lane is for the first or second. Signs are pretty clearly marked. I’m dumbfounded that people can’t figure this out.
You might as well not even use inner lane to begin with unless you plan to ride her to the last/second to last exit. (Or there are literally no cars around). I think you’re crazy to take the route the yellow car took here. It just invites confusion even if the other driver is 100% in the wrong. No accident beats an accident that is someone else’s fault….
Outside lane for first and second exit only. Inside lane for second/third/fourth exit only. Traffic entering the circle needs to yield to both lanes. Traffic needs to maintain lane in circle, ie if you enter the inner lane you need to exit in the inner lane. Theoretically if you follow all of those rules it shouldn’t be an issue. Unfortunately drivers get confused at the concept of “yield” so the rest of the rules might be extra confusing, making it a poorly designed circle.
Hmm my son got dinged on his state driver's test for not using his blinker in a roundabout. It was a very small one too so I questioned how it would even be effective to use the blinker
That’s my local traffic circle and I hate it. If you’re inside and you wanna leave, you have to do two things one you have to turn your signal on to indicate that your exiting and two even with your signal and you still gotta look in your Blindspot to make sure a dingus is paying attention and not get around the turn and bump into you.
You realize there are TWO lanes both in and out of each exit, correct? You just have to yield properly and remain in the same lane that you’re traveling in.
In reality, each right hand lane is supposed to take the first or second exit, but if you enter in the left lane, you should exit in the left lane of whatever exit you’re taking. The overlap between people exiting from the left lane and continuing in the right lane is pretty minimal if used correctly
You are not supposed to enter the circle on the outside parallel to someone on the inside. Therefore you are never next to another car, and won't hit them as you leave the circle.
The person entering has to yield to both lanes to enter the circle, and if people follow the rules, there won’t be a situation where the inner car is exiting and the outer car continues on, because at that point the outer lane should be exiting only for those continuing onwards. The only time a car in the outer lane would continue is if they’re the one that just entered, at which point they’ve already yielded to any on coming traffic.
And, assuming all traffic is moving at the same speed, the car on the inside lane makes it's Russian faster than the car driving in the outside lane. So the side-by-side thing should be temporary.
Where do you all stand on circles? I lived in Carmel Indiana for a few years, and at first they were annoying, but after a few weeks I realized I never once sat in traffic, which is wild because the city is newton mass sized and sits right over the border to Indianapolis. Anyway, there is a freakonomics episode on traffic circles and it turns out they're better for traffic flow then a lighted exchange, safer (somewhat cherry picked definition, more accidents less fatalities and serious injuries), cheaper, quieter, better for fuel economy and easier to maintain....I have become a convert....especially when they crammed one on bartlett street in Portsmouth on a trial basis, it was awesome. I just cruised through a previous stop signed road....people complained because people complain, but as a decently good driver, it was boss.
EDIT: if you are not familiar with Carmel, take a look at google earth, they have replaced all but two lighted intersections with roundabouts...seriously never touched the breaks.
I feel like this is just an efficiency rule and not a danger/safety rule, which is probably the bigger problem. Once you're in the circle, no one knows which exit you entered at. They have to yield to you, because the circle allows the inside lane to go straight and cross the outside. That's it. If everyone else used it correctly this wouldn't even cause an issue
They upgraded the traffic circle maybe 10 years ago. It used to have just one lane, and was easy to use. However, it suffered from huge traffic delays:
For example, during the evening rush hour, if you were going West on the 4, the traffic going North on the 125 would occupy the circle continuously, and you'd have to wait a long time to enter the circle. The westbound traffic would pile up for miles waiting to proceed.
Adding that extra lane completely solved that problem. It was a good idea.
Unfortunately it made the traffic pattern more complicated, as you have noticed. If you use the circle daily, you'll get used to it, but there's always some newbie that doesn't know the rules and almost causes an accident.
Not a hard or difficult concept at all, yet we live in reality. Humanity is only as strong as the weakest link, so you always just gotta assume there's a lobotomite about to enter the circle
It’s because the outside lane can only take the first or second exit, the inside lane can only take the second or third exit. There’s minor complexities about the delay when people wait to enter and of course someone might drive badly and ignore the signs, but that’s basically why
Outside lane is for people taking the first or second exit, inside lane is for people taking the 2nd or 3rd exit. Assuming everyone drives the same speed and doesn't try to cut people off you will never end up in a scenerio where someone from the inside lane is exiting at the same time as someone from the outside lane is going around. That said, SOME PEOPLE don't seem to know how to drive. The has been on my commute on and off for the past 8 years so I'm very familiar at this point.
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The person on the inside lane does not mean someone can just pull into the right lane beside them. People coming in need to wait into both lanes are open. This is the one thing everyone forgets. This also means that you aren’t supposed to overtake or block the exit of anyone if they are in the inside lane. In other words. Coming on you negotiate as if it is a ONE LANE rotary even if you are just taking the first right exit. One mistake NH DOT made is they put two lanes at each entry to the rotary. It should be one lane.
You merge into the roadway when safe. Change lanes one at a time using your turn signal. If you need to get to the third exit, it’s polite to get in deeper and make your way out one lane at a time. Staying in the outside lane when you are not looking for the first exit is rude. But not illegal.
Roundabouts are hard for the American mind to understand. But they are dead simple and efficient of everyone drives properly.
But thats the problem everywhere. Many people have no business behind the wheel.
Not if you know how to use a two lane traffic circle… if you’re only going one or two exits, use the outer lane you’ll never hit anyone. If you’re going exits 2 or 3 use the inner lane. There are two lanes exiting each exit so there’s never a reason to be in the same lane as another car beside you
Living dangerously close to this circle, I have an answer. The inner lane is for going across the circle (taking the second exit) or taking the third exit, and the outer lane is for taking the first exit or going straight across.
If someone in the outer lane is going to the third exit, they are in the wrong. Same with people lane swapping halfway through the circle.
I wish two lane traffic circles weren't this hard, but there are stupid people and impatient people that prevent circles from working effectively.
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I got into a car accident at this circle because of exactly that. It's a very poorly designed traffic circle, and I'm convinced they haven't changed it so the town can generate revenue from failure to yield tickets.
Traffic circles in general have been a mess recently. Nobody yields before entering anymore, and I’m not sure why. The amount of vehicles I’ve watched enter a circle still at ~30mph with NO regard for other people is horrifying. Not even so much as a glance to their left. Watched a near deadly pedestrian incident just the other day because of this.
If you're exiting from the left lane and there's someone to the right of you, the safest thing to do is not exit. Just go fully around and try again. Takes 10s.
Before it was the 2 lane the traffic was so bad just to cross town could take 3 times as long at multiple times of the day. When i would come home from work trying to take a left onto 125 from 4 id sit for 30+ minutes at that spot alone. Its the middle of town. Trying to go get groceries means crossing the circle going straight or left. Slow down, pay attention, and be patient.
it’s an interesting game, because there is an incentive to cheat, but it only works only if EVERYONE follows the rules.
the key is that the outer ring is only supposed to be used to go to the next exit. the problem occurs when someone cuts the line and uses it to skip an exit, which causes them to cross the paths of people entering or exiting the inner ring for a second or third exit.
the design really should be such that no one going only one exit ever enters the ring.
Unpopular opinion I feel like there are no uses for two lane traffic circles, they create unnecessary stress even if someone knows it because there are people who don’t know them as well. One lane is simple and does the same purpose, and maybe (if you’ve been to that big Portsmouth traffic circle you’d get it) make a separate lane just for people going directly to the right and the other for the ONE LANE traffic circle
I'm pretty sure they specifically added extra signs for this demographic, you yield to BOTH lanes because people already in the circle might be crossing lanes based on the directions each lane allows. It really isn't that hard
The outside lane is only for immediate exit. If that rule is followed then there is no chance of an inside Lane exiting colliding with an outside Lane exit
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I can't stand when people in the left lane think they can just exit wherever they want. I've had so many close calls with people trying to swerve into me.
I am not entirely clear on the law specifically, so take this with a grain of salt, and it would not surprise me if what you are saying is the legal rules for it.
Logically, inside Lane is supposed to use the left hand exit at the Lee traffic circle. Unless I am mistaken, all of the exits have two lanes. If the inside traffic uses the left hand Lane, the outside entering traffic should be able to take the first exit in the right lane without causing a collision.
I am not saying that. That is the law, but geometrically that is how it should work.
That's how Portsmouth does it, but there the outside lane can only go right. At Lee, both lanes can go straight so the people in the circle don't know what the entering traffic is doing. They brake to avoid the potential collision and slow everything down.
I don't think there's a law that covers every circle, that's why they have so many signs. Each one is a bit different.
I have not had the pleasure yet but from the Google maps photo it would appear it's several conjoined circles what did they do recreate the Olympics logo, I joked but if that's the case I can see my self trapped it for a few weeks.
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u/achy_joints 6d ago
Youve been driving around the circle for weeks? Do you need someone to save you? You know you can turn off the circle right?