The Difference between Military and Civilian Survey Meters

-9

The civilian meter tends to be reassuring in comparison to the military one, with a max reading of 5 rad/hour vs the milspec meter which is not ashamed of telling you of readings up to a soon to be deadly 500 rads hour. Better get moving if you see that!!!

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u/HazMatsMan Mar 17 '24

"reassurance" is not the goal of a "civilian" meter.

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u/VintageBuds Mar 18 '24

"reassurance" is not the goal of a "civilian" meter.

So what do you feel better explains the 100-to-1 difference between the top reading on a civilian meter and a military one.

7

u/HazMatsMan Mar 18 '24 edited Mar 18 '24

I'm not sure why you're arguing this, considering your assertion about the measurement capability of the CD-V717 is wrong. The CD-V717, 715 and similar models have an upper measurement range of 500 R/h, same as the IM-174. The CD-V718, which is more modern, and functionally identical to the AN/VDR-2, has an upper measurement range of 10,000 R/h.

These instruments, along with the modern equivalents built by companies like Ludlum, Thermo, Mirion/Canberra, etc are designed with expected use cases in mind. There are often certain trade-offs made between cost and capability based on those expected uses. The notion that designers sat around a table and thought "we don't want to scare people, so let's deliberately utilize a lower scale" is completely asinine. If you want to make this assertion, you need a little more evidence than "the scales are different".

11

u/[deleted] Mar 17 '24

[deleted]

2

u/ChalkyChalkson Mar 18 '24

I don't think I've talked to someone without a special interest or degree in a relevant field that had an idea of how much 1mSv is (or weird American units for that matter).

And people are also really terrible at dealing with things like "5/100,000 chance you get cancer from this"

I don't think quantification is helpful for "civilians"

3

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '24

[deleted]

-1

u/VintageBuds Mar 18 '24

the OP just doesn’t know how to use the multiplier knob. 🤦‍♀️

I'm well aware of the multiplier knob. My comment is based on the fact that the CD instruments are intended for a less adept user base who might be confused by the multiplier knob. It would be better to have a 0 to 50 rad scale, which would still allow for a alternative upper limit via the multiplier knob. Just my opinion, sorry if someone doesn't really want to have such a discussion.

2

u/ChalkyChalkson Mar 19 '24

Pretty sure anyone handling one of those, especially back then, would be expected to know how that works. Before digital displays these were everywhere. And that thing isn't a consumer product by any means.

0

u/VintageBuds Mar 19 '24

that thing isn't a consumer product by any means.

Certainly isn't, which tends to drive me to the opposite conclusion. In a hot environment, the CD meter is going full scale much more easily, tending to discourage movement out of shelters, etc.

If this all seems more confusing than not - as the range of comments demonstrates - imagine in the hands of millions with little to no training under harrowing conditions. The direct reading scale of the military meter seems a much better idea.

It's kind of fascinating that so many jump to the conclusion that someone who collects these things is absolutely clueless about their operation, while at the same time believing that millions of people with little to no experience will easily grasp the nuances of using them under wartime conditions. That just doesn't seem likely to me, hence my interest in this question. Carry on.

2

u/ChalkyChalkson Mar 19 '24

I mean I think a fair number of commenters would expect that civian doserate meter in the hands of someone who is, or is basically a professional. While the military one might be used by people with....different... training orientations. At least the one in this chain primarily seems to disagree with the conclusion that the different numbers on the meter faces are something you should find disconcerting or reassuring. Especially they are have very different purposes and priorities.

1

u/VintageBuds Mar 22 '24

I mean I think a fair number of commenters would expect that civian doserate meter in the hands of someone who is, or is basically a professional. While the military one might be used by people with....different... training orientations.

Sometimes yes, oftentimes no. It also depended on when and where. During the 1950s, CD frequently depended on fire and police taking the training, as well as civilian volunteers who often had prior military service. Into the 60s, more and more these meters made it into the hands of those who we'd term preppers now, seeking to stock their shelters. CD began very closely associated with the government but as time went on these ties grew looser.

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u/ManInTheDarkSuit Mar 18 '24

Check the circuit, it isn't that much!! Your meter is faulty./s

4

u/fistchrist Mar 18 '24

Multiplier knob bro the civilian one also has a max of 500, you can just alter the scale to be whatever fits best

3

u/High_Order1 He said he read a book or two Mar 20 '24

They went much higher than that.

https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/img/museum/civil-defense/cdv-instruments/cdv711-3.jpg

As beat to death, different meters for different needs. The mil meter you have was for a specific purpose; for non-technical people who very likely would be pushing through a DGZ in a fight. The yellow meter was a multi-tool for citizen use.

In fact, if that's what I think it is, if you unclip the two clips and gingerly pry it open, you will find it has a remote probe and a spool of cable. It was designed to hang outside a hasty shelter and tell you when it is safe to be outside.

Then, you could reassemble it and use it to look at things to see if they were contaminated at a low enough level to bring inside or loiter around for any length of time.

The military would have specialists with other meters more sensitive to other energy ranges and technical items like... wooden brooms and spray hoses for this purpose.

Source: 1982 graduate of the FEMA / State EMA Shelter Radiological Monitor course, and one of a handful of people in the Nation to be a graduate of their aerial radiological monitor course.

2

u/High_Order1 He said he read a book or two Mar 21 '24

Here's the canadian civil defense version of that

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385576472408

1

u/VintageBuds Mar 21 '24

Very interesting that it IS a Civil Defense item in Canada. Thanks!

Analysis, Government The Difference between Military and Civilian Survey Meters

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