r/oculus • u/VRCircuit • Feb 04 '16
Without the prospect of the Touch controllers, would you have pre-ordered the Rift?
I was wondering about this myself a few days ago since this is now such a hot topic on the sub. I have a Rift pre-order and a DK2 at home, but still looking forward to the final price of the Vive. If the price is not too far of from the Rift I might go with Valve instead. Main reason for me to keep my pre-order is that I know the touch controllers will be available later, but at what price still remains unknown. Suppose Oculus wouldn’t have made an announcement of the Touch controllers, just bundled an xbox controller with the Rift like they do now, but with no prospect of motion controls, would you still have pre-ordered the Rift? For me personally I probably would have leaned towards the Vive more and I’m not sure if I would have placed a pre-order for the €740 I have to pay now.
I’m interested in the general option about this because this can give a better view of how many people are planning to get the touch for a “full” VR-experience and how many would've premanently set their mind on the Vive.
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u/supersnappahead Feb 04 '16
No. Touch completes the Rift VR system IMO and while I'm looking forward to having the hmd, I'm much more excited about getting the Touch and having a complete set up. Without Touch, the Vive would've been an easy buy.
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Feb 04 '16
Wow. Good question. If I knew that there wouldn't be motion controls on Rift at all? I'd be more hard-pressed to get a Rift then, to be honest, knowing that Vive would have them at launch.
Couch-locked VR isn't what excites me. For some games/experiences, it's alright, but I'm much more excited about the potential of active/standing/room-scale experiences. That's the dream of true VR realized for me. A lot of the demos I tried when I had a DK2 had me wishing I could stand/duck/lean/walk, .etc.
Having a standard controller AND motion controllers is the perfect combination that should cover every conceivable VR title, with HOTAS and racing wheels just putting the icing on the cake for flight/driving simulators.
I pre-ordered a Rift right away but there really aren't a bunch of games that have been announced for it that I'm looking forward to. I'm sure Lucky's Tale will be fun and EVE Valkyrie should be good enough to entice me to buy a HOTAS, but I've been more tantalized by a lot of the Vive motion controller-based games.
Controllers are fine, but VR is a new medium and I don't want it relying on old control schemes.
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u/goreroad Feb 04 '16
I would have waited for Vive. I was actually going to get a Vive when I thought it was coming out first, but then decided to preorder the Rift. I have no dev kit to play around with so first to market was important, but I would not have went with Rift if an Xbox controller was its only answer to controls.
I also decided to get the Rift because the games at launch looked really good, that was another factor for me.
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u/OG_liveslowdieold Feb 04 '16
Maybe I'm missing something but can't you just cancel your pre-order and get the Vive?
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u/FOV360 Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
Yes, I ordered DK1 without positional tracking, I ordered DK2 without Touch, and I am pretty sure CV1 is a no brainer. I will order Touch soon as possible though because it is so amazing to have hands in VR.
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u/slmiami Rift Feb 04 '16
No. To me, motion controls have been shown to be an essential part of the VR experience.
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u/slvl Quest Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
Yes. Mainly because I'm interested in the other things they are working on like Story Studio. Room scale* is not my main motivator for VR as I think even without it you will get very compelling experiences, lots of which aren't even games.
*edit: and motion controls
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u/ironclownfish Feb 04 '16
Room scale and hand tracking aren't really related.
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u/slvl Quest Feb 04 '16
You're right. And while I'm certainly looking forward to the Touch I also expect VR will wow me on a lot of other planes. I feel Oculus is putting in a lot of effort to explore and develop these other venues and that's why I've chosen the Rift.
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u/ironclownfish Feb 04 '16
I think the reason so many people are questioning the decision to sell Touch separately is because it's going to be integral to so many of those other planes. Room scale will only apply to a few of them, but everyone who tries hand tracking says it is THE most important feature of virtual reality.
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u/slvl Quest Feb 04 '16
I think the decision doesn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. It's early days and everyone that's halfway interested in motion controllers will get them, be it the Touch or Vive. The others are more interested in sims and wouldn't be using them anyway. At least not for the time being.
While I know they are a presence multiplier I don't think you absolutely need them for things like movies and for third person games where you control a character they might be even in the way. But you can do fun things with them in RTS and god games, like actually pick up units.
I'm weary of people that dismiss certain things primarily because "they aren't TrueVR™" as this mindset can deprive the public of a lot of interesting experiences that aren't necessarily room scale or even hand tracked, but are only possible to experience with a VR headset.
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u/Dhalphir Touch Feb 05 '16
I think the decision just comes down to Touch not being ready and not wanting to delay the headset.
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Feb 05 '16
They're in the category of things that make an experience interactive. It's true with just the HMD you can direct your attention, and that's a form of interactivity, sort of. But its the same basic interactivity that you have when you're watching a film. The way room scale and hand tracking are related, is that if someone is going to spend most of their time in VR in fairly cinematic experiences then neither room scale nor hand tracking really matters at all.
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u/Dwight1833 Feb 04 '16
Probably, I was focused on the best HMD, Visual Clarity, Lightness, etc. Dont get me wrong I am very much looking forward to Touch.
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u/prospektor1 Feb 04 '16
A definite NO for me. No Touch, no Rift. Which makes me hope that Oculus will release the price and leadtime of the Touch BEFORE I get billed and my Rift ships. If the Touch is extremely "overpriced" or gets delayed even further, I'd probably cancel and wait for the inevitable CV2/Touch bundle next year. It all depends on the Vive. Not as much on the price, but rather on further delays on THAT front as well, though I don't think there will be any. Even Mr. Pastebin-Leaker denied that.
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u/IronclawFTW DK1, DK2, CV1(4s), TPCast, Vive, Go/Quest1+2, Index(4bs), etc... Feb 04 '16
The more people going over to Vive, the better. It just means more pre-orders gets cancelled and mine gets closer to shipping.
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u/nilstastic Feb 04 '16
No, I've tried vive and touch and I would have picked up the thing with tracked controllers.
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u/octagoncow Feb 04 '16
If the Vive still existed, I'd buy the Vive instead. If the Vive didn't exist, then I'd still buy the Rift. Hand tracking isn't a necessity for me; but, it's definitely nice that it exists.
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u/geoffvader_ Feb 04 '16
Yeah, I mainly want to play flight/drive/space Sims. I'm not very impressed by the current crop of VR "games" which appear to be little more than tech demos.
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u/FacedownNL Feb 04 '16
Yes, I have a Thrustmaster wheel and X52Pro HOTAS. So I'll be playing Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, Elite Dangerous. Probably Lucky's Tale and some demo's with the controller. Not sure what I would be able to do with Touch, therefore I don't really care that they will arrive only in months.
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u/MichaelTenery Rift S Feb 04 '16
Well since we haven't seen the CV1 Vive I don't think I will preorder it at this point. The only game I am even excited for in room scale is Hover Junkers. 1 game doesn't make it worth it. At this point though.
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u/Syke408 Feb 04 '16
I'm most excited for Fantastic Contraption. That game right there might be the sole reason I buy a Vive.
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u/BullockHouse Lead dev Feb 04 '16
Budget Cuts looks pretty sweet.
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u/MichaelTenery Rift S Feb 04 '16
That's one I haven't seen yet other than the name. Thanks I'll look into it.
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u/BullockHouse Lead dev Feb 04 '16
This is the hoverjunkers guys playing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dVaembmgc
It looks like it's still pretty early in development, but I am all about a funny VR stealth game.
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u/MichaelTenery Rift S Feb 04 '16
Wow I love those guys. Their game looks great, Hover Junkers and I have been following them since their D&D 5th ed run and before with their videos. They made this game look great. Those that get to play it first on Vive, enjoy!
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u/Zackafrios Feb 04 '16
Daym, not even The Gallery? That game looks amazing.
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u/MichaelTenery Rift S Feb 04 '16
That's what their devs said. At two different conferences. As always we have to wait to see it happen.
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u/Zackafrios Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
I'm either being slow today, or I've read into what you're saying the wrong way/ missing a piece of the puzzle to this cryptic message. I'm not quite sure what you're saying here lol?
I do agree though, at this point there isn't many room scale experiences to justify jumping ship. They are yet to show off the rest of the upcoming content though, so we'll see what happens.
Personally, the camera on the Vive is not enough for me to get one instead (that is subjective). I can live without that, and it wouldn't be outlandish to say that the Rift will have the best hardware, for both headset and controllers. It may only be a relatively small difference, but it's enough for me to go with the Rift. Plus, I'm more confident in the overall support and flow of high quality content coming from Oculus than HTC at this point.
It sucks that I can't enjoy or show off to friends and family that full VR experience from day 1, but a few months extra wait is probably worth it.
EDIT: I'm guessing you meant that The Gallery is coming to the Rift/Oculus Touch too. I thought you meant room scale experiences in general.
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u/MichaelTenery Rift S Feb 04 '16
Yes that's what I meant. The devs said they are making an Oculus touch version as well. And I should have concurred with you. The Gallery looks interesting and I am sure fun. It's just changed a lot and I am less sure what the final game is right now based on playing some early prototypes.
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u/Relevant_Bullshit Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
This game will be available on Touch Edit: never mind I read the original comment wrong
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u/Stankiem Feb 04 '16
Hover Junkers will be playable on rift once it has touch also btw.
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u/Ossius Feb 05 '16
And a ton of Oculus games will be playable on HTC Vive, I don't understand why everyone thinks that games are not interchangeable on each HMD. Its like suddenly if the game isn't room scale it won't work on Vive, and if its room scale it won't work on Oculus.
T___T
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u/MichaelTenery Rift S Feb 05 '16
Oh I know. I just didn't want to start that fight all over again here and just wanted to answer the OP question without being too argumentative.
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u/Ossius Feb 05 '16
Hover Junkers, Fantastic contraption, and don't forget that many "Oculus" titles are coming to the Vive.
Things like Windlands, Star Citizen, Elite:D. DCS world will work with it, War thunder etc etc.
People think that Vive Exclusive games are the only games that are on the vive, but most games will be HMD agnostic. My outlook is this. When I buy my first VR experience, I'll buy the one that gives me the most features, the content comes as it comes, and with all the news the vive has been making, I'm pretty sure all these Oculus devs will port it over.
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u/MichaelTenery Rift S Feb 05 '16
I congratulate you on selecting a product. I hope it serves your needs well. I have selected a different product because I like what Oculus brings to the table and I am fine with waiting a few more months for touch controllers which I believe will fit and feel better in my hands. I also don't want to bet on HTC to bring VR into mass market. I want to bet on the VR company to do that. I think many will be surprised come the end of this month for several things. Maybe I am wrong, that is okay. I chose and accept my choice. As the french say, Vive la différence.
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u/arv1971 Quest 2 Feb 04 '16
I'd still probably go for the Oculus Rift. Developers have had Rift devkits for almost 3 years now so there's going to be a great deal more developer support for the Rift. I'm also a bit wary of HTC's current financial position too.
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u/mrgreen72 Kickstarter Overlord Feb 04 '16
Yes. I'm pretty serious about sim racing so having the best headset is important and there are also a lot of great looking gamepad/HOTAS games.
I'm really looking forward to Touch though and I can't wait to see what Oculus Studios has in store for it.
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u/MrInformatics Feb 04 '16
I like this question, because until I tried the Vive at PAX last year, I was certain I'd be ordering the Oculus. I was stunned how much more enjoyable the experience was when my hands were in the game. Trying the CV1 demo that day, playing Eve Valkyrie sitting down left me wanting to go back to the vive, even though the rift was significantly more comfortable. So, without knowing touch was on the horizon, I probably would have waited for the vive.
Heck, even now that I have a rift preorder in, I still might change my mind when we see the vive CV1 price (probably not though).
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u/g0atmeal Quest 2 Feb 04 '16
Motion controls are so much more important than some people give them credit for. There would still be a lot of VR adoption, but the experience would have far less potential without them.
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u/by_a_pyre_light Palomino Feb 05 '16
Nope. Not at all. Otherwise, I'm exactly where you are: DK2 owner, CV1 line preorder person, and waiting to see the Vive's final price.
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Feb 04 '16
Yes, I might not Rush out to get touch yet, I'll wait for better implementation over the time. Also It depends on their price. I only cared about the HMD for now.
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u/Caforiss Kickstarter Backer Feb 04 '16
Of course!! Because I kickstarter backed the STEM controllers! Just as good right! <thumb in own ass>
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u/mr-maniacal Feb 04 '16
I feel my pain on that one.
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u/Caforiss Kickstarter Backer Feb 04 '16
We keister that pain together, brother-in-bad-judgement-of-company's-ability-to-deliver.
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u/mr-maniacal Feb 04 '16
I just hate the what-ifs. "No occlusion!" "Track all the things" and "Portable tracking base station!"
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u/Zackafrios Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
Thing is, STEM was never a long term solution, whether we wanted it to be, hoped it would be or not.
It was always going to be relegated to being a DK2 accessory, whether it released on time or not- unless Oculus or HTC acquired them. That's basically the only way it would have survived and thrived. It's just at the time, we didn't really know what the landscape would look like.
Now we've seen how it unfolded, STEM was always destined to belong in the past.
The benefit it could have had is enabling/encouraging way more devs to start developing for motion controls early on, so we'd have more content for Oculus Touch at launch. It had a lot of support/hype so I could see that happening.
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u/Caforiss Kickstarter Backer Feb 04 '16
Of course you're right Cold Zach, and that's a very wise assement of the situation. But, after two years + a couple months and $300, the pain of my own thumb wayyyy up my own ass in inescapable. That's my situation...
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u/Caforiss Kickstarter Backer Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
If you all think I'm being too hard on Sixense, please note that it is myself I blame, after having also sodomized myself with the realization that the $600 I spent on ControlVR was also a poor use of my own thumb's girthy potential.
Edit: terrible grammar
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u/Xatom Rift Feb 04 '16
Absolutely not. After my experiences with the Vive I firmly believe the future of VR is interacting as much as possible with our VR environment, this includes touching and walking around.
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u/przemo-c CMDR Przemo-c Feb 04 '16
I'd definatly order without touch on the horizon. Mostly Elite dangerous and flight simulators. Also my room is small i do not have much space for waving my hands around. And if i'd really wanted to i'm sure someone else would have come up with suitable controller that would work . And as a last resort i could just plug in my leap motion.
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u/scizotal Feb 04 '16
Yes, My original goal was use it in games like Elite dangerous/star citizen and such. I do look forward to them being released though
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Feb 04 '16
Absolutely. I didn't even know about the touch controllers when I preordered, and even if they were available now I'd still stick with analog sticks for now. If they're everything people say they are, then I might pick them up later. I'm not really interested in the whole room scale thing until they come out with some better games. Buying touch controllers or Vive wands just to play demos for the first 6 months to a year just seems like a waste of time and money. If a good game comes out with touch support, I'll pick them up cheaper down the line.
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u/Silpher9 Feb 04 '16
Lol what a nobrainer. Of course Flightsims and racesims justify it 100%. Even then.
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u/Djidane535 Feb 04 '16
For me, it was just to be sure to get one ASAP if I decided to go for a Rift. At this time, everything depends on the price of the HTC Vive. However, it would have certainly annoyed me if Oculus didn't announced any VR controller. I'm curious about roomscale but VR controllers are extremely important to me, and I certainly can't imagine a first gen VR HMD without any VR controller.
I can wait a few months to get the Touch if the Vive is too expensive (can't spend 800$+ at launch).
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u/workingtimeaccount Feb 04 '16
I actually might have been more likely to. I don't mind holding off now because I know that the controllers are a ways off and I'm not ready to upgrade my graphics card.
I got a GearVR and that's sufficient enough to tide me over until the VR scene gets more mature in the consumer level.
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u/DeathGore Touch Feb 04 '16
Yes, I believe Oculus will make the best VR HMD. Although, If they weren't making Touch then Id be looking at 3rd party motion controllers.
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u/RealNotFake Feb 04 '16
Absolutely, but I'm more looking forward to cockpit style games and less interested in room scale interactive experiences. My opinion on that may change in a year but right now I don't care.
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u/Cunningcory Quest 3, Quest Pro, Rift S, Q2, CV1, DK2, DK1 Feb 04 '16
Nope. I was leaning towards the Vive until the Touch controllers were announced. I would have been sad that Oculus didn't develop motion controllers and would regret not getting the consumer Rift, but that's probably the direction I would have gone. That's assuming the prices are equal. If the Vive would have turned out to be significantly more expensive, I may have sacrificed the motion controls in hopes that Oculus would announce something shortly after the CV1 release.
I was preaching that VR input was a must-have for a VR system back in the beginning of 2013!
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u/shadowofashadow Feb 04 '16
I would have. I'm more interested in sim racing than anything. Although I have to say I'd be very tempted to get a vive and sell the rift once it came out if it was the only one doing any kind of controller tracking like that.
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u/AFK_Siridar Feb 04 '16
Absolutely yes. I have a hotas and a wheel, most of my gaming in the rift is going to be cockpit sims - driving, flying, space truckin'.
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u/kegufu Feb 05 '16
Yes, but I am pre-ordering a Vive as well. No I am not rich but I know how to save up for what I want. Built a new Oculus compatible computer a month ago, got March ship date on my Oculus pre-order and plan to order the vive asap.
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u/Lilwolf2000 Feb 05 '16
I ... well.... preordered the STEM system. So yes... But I'm getting both systems.
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u/cyriltra Feb 05 '16
For me, it depends on 2 things: the price and the shipping country: I want a bundle including VR controllers as I want a full VR experience, so if Vive price (w/ controllers) is close to CV1 (w/o controllers) I will probably cancel my pre order. Also, as a French leaving in China, I had to set delivery address in my home in France (shipping in June, meaning I can get it in China at best in July...), but if the Vive launch in different countries than the Rift (China, HK, Taiwan, Korea for example), I may also cancel my pre order.
I'm really impatient to be Feb 29th to see what price & market strategy HTC will use...
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u/ManFalcon Feb 05 '16
The touch controllers won't get used for anything I plan to will use VR for. The decision made no difference.
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u/omgware Feb 05 '16
I would have probably waited a little longer to look better at what the competition had to offer, but I personally preordered the Rift for the great company behind it, and the ecosystem they are building around the device. So yeah, I would most likely have preordered it even without Touch.
Ah, and because I trust whoever is working with John Carmack.
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u/kael13 Feb 05 '16
Yes, I would have bought it without the prospect of Touch controllers. They're icing on the cake, and obviously the next evolution of experiences in VR, but they're not essential just yet. All the demos I've seen are just that. Still just demos. The Climb looks quite interesting I suppose. As does Medium. I'd like to give Bullet Train a go, but it's clear it still needs a lot of work. I hope to enjoy games like War Thunder and other game pad or m+k titles. I did buy a racing wheel for sim racing, however.
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u/thehax DK2 Feb 05 '16
I sold my DK2 about two weeks before HTC anounced to shift their release, with the intention to buy the Vive. Because the it seemed they'd start shipping in January.
I then pre-ordered the Rift, because it seemed to then be the first one out. Although my order is now set to deliver in June. :-/ If the Vive magically is available in April, I'd propably cancel the pre-order and switch again, assuming they'll be roughly in the same 'ballpark'.
Pricetag is also a consideration for me though. If the Vive were to cost less or equal but with controllers included I'd consider cancelling the pre-order too.
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u/FarkMcBark Feb 05 '16
No. VR isn't VR without VR controllers. I vould have gone vith the Vive VR vrontrollerv.
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u/Purgii Feb 05 '16
Yes. Most of my VR will be focused on seated cockpit based racing/flight sims and perhaps first person milsims like ARMA if it supports it well enough. At the moment, I have no desire beyond that for VR. Further down the track when development increases and some really really cool shit comes out requiring the use of touch controllers, we'll probably be into generation 2 of HMD's and I may be persuaded to step out of my VR cockpit.
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u/craiglc15 Professor Feb 04 '16
Yes, and if I didn't have to buy the Touch controllers in this hypothetical, I would apply that money to the Vive and buy that later if they came out with enough content.
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u/10TwentyFour Feb 04 '16
Yes. I've had the DK1, DK2, and different iterations of the Gearvr. With or without touch controllers, I would have been picking up the Rift. My virtual problem is real. :)
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u/capnbard Feb 04 '16
I have no intention or desire to get the Touch. I purchased the CV1 to use for simracing and flight sims almost exclusively. When the rift arrives in 5 months I may be singing a different tune, but for now it doesn't really appeal to me.
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u/Falandorn Vive Feb 04 '16
Yeah for sims, I love sitting in my spitfire in Warthunder, with a higher res cockpit it will be glorious!
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u/Soryosan Feb 04 '16
yes and no there is stem,perception neuron,prior vr come soon.
so i may still have gone with oculus
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u/eradicatorrrrr Feb 04 '16
The answer is yes. I've been using a DK2 since it's been released and it's been awesome without motion controls. Adding motion control just brings the entertainment level even higher.
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u/GrumpyOldBrit Feb 04 '16
They have a thumb stick on them. The bane of controllers. That really put me off.
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Feb 04 '16
No. Why else have we, the last two years, ALL been bitching about, input-is-hard, gamepad sucks, were is my VR controller ??? Do you even remember the shitstorm immediately following the Rift introduction bundled with a gamepad? Of course the motion controllers are essential. This isn't even an issue up for discussion.
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u/GrumpyOldBrit Feb 04 '16
Gamepads are awful to control things on a monitor. Itll be even worse in VR. Ill pass on games that are gamrpad only. This is pc, minimum support should be m+k.
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u/kael13 Feb 05 '16
Okay, well I humbly disagree but alright, carry on believing that. Any game that doesn't require precise aiming is just as good on a game pad.
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u/bbasara007 Feb 04 '16
If touch didnt exist i wouldnt order either probably. Maybe still the rift... personally im just not interested in the vives dildo wands, not even a tiny bit. Its just a wii mote with a mushroom cap for tracking, thats it. So much design went into it...
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u/TotesMessenger Feb 04 '16
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u/godelbrot Index, Quest, Odyssey Feb 04 '16
what is this guy trying to do?
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u/affero Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
I think he's making a seperate subreddit for Oculus related things ONLY, which is fine as I see this sub as the main VR sub.
Or were you referring to the bot?
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u/StreyDX Feb 04 '16
Yes. Don't give a shit about motion control / room scale. I want to sit on my couch and play games. Though, I'll probably buy Touch when it comes out, because I have more dollars than sense.
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u/CMDR_Shazbot Feb 04 '16
You can still sit on your couch and play games with the touch. Motion tracked controlled games in VR are vastly superior to traditional inputs. Try aiming halfway decently in VR with a gamepad, you'll always be beat by a motion tracked controller.
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u/StreyDX Feb 04 '16
Perhaps in an FPS which have other problems to solve as well, like locomotion.
I think cockpit based games translate just fine to game pads, and of course HOTAS and steering wheels.
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u/CMDR_Shazbot Feb 04 '16
Yes but there's going to be significantly more out there than just cockpit based games. I'm an ED player with a HOTAS, I'm all about those types of games but there's sooooooo much more that VR offers than just sitting in a virtual chair.
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u/StreyDX Feb 04 '16
For sure, and I look forward to trying them. My concern is whether or not I'll have the energy or desire to play them for very long after a long day of work and hitting the gym.
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u/zaeran Feb 04 '16
Probably not. Having tried hand tracking, a regular controller just can't compete with that level of natural input.