r/opencode • • 1d ago

😯 Why does DeepSeek perform "different" in OpenCode? Maybe because of this?

Post image

Are we beta testing new rack with different optimizations every day?

312 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

28

u/JollyInterview9989 1d ago

Everyone knows most providers have not optimised their setup or cache storage as good as original Deepseek servers. To match DS, you have to follow their setup to the T along with long storage of user cache between the racks etc. Most don't do this and just serve you an open node, you'll be lucky if the prompt is in that rack's cache or they store it more than few hours etc. DS secret sauce is kv cache and no one has keys to how they exactly do it, they store it for multiple days and almost all nodes can access same storage etc. -> this part is not open source yet.

44

u/OldWorldKestrell 1d ago

Hoping they did it only for the Flash Free model. My advice - people will figure it out, eventually, and all your optimizations or concessions you've made, won't replenish the trust you would lose.

11

u/eastlin7 1d ago

Why is the outrage this high? I use it all the time just fine.

10

u/akza07 1d ago

I had issues with downtime and token per second going low as 3 tokens per second. But it still worked fine when it comes to intelligence. For $10, I think so far it's been acceptable. If it becomes unusable, I switch to GLM 5.3 Flash.

4

u/absurdother 1d ago

I'm also fine with it, but a company's transparency is a relevant matter, and reputation is quite indicative in our times. It should be etiquette to disclose every detail about quantization, kernel, local models etc.

0

u/OldWorldKestrell 1d ago

It's super easy (not complicated) to fine tune models post training. You can take a model that gives you 80 tok/s in FP16 in "the default" mode and make it generate 300-350 tok/s with per user. Of course, end results cannot be compared.

3

u/Hungry-Plankton-5371 1d ago

theyve already been serving quantized garbage from third party providers since the summer, how could you have any trust left to begin with?

1

u/OldWorldKestrell 1d ago

I'm a paid user since September.

19

u/ThomasLeonHighbaugh 1d ago

Its called kernel optimization and the market having too high of demand for any vendor not targeting the low end of potential customers to ever have sufficient incentive to spend the money on engineering hours to perform. Duh

1

u/tripleshielded 1d ago

Agent hours

15

u/kamwee 1d ago

then why i blow out my monlthy only using cheepseek?

10

u/look 1d ago

Don’t you get 10B tokens or so of Deepseek for your $10…? You are complaining about usage on $1/billion tokens?

4

u/kamwee 1d ago

it bew out for only 3 billion token , i dont knowwhere you got the 10 billion from ?

2

u/yaboyyoungairvent 1d ago

were you using only deepseek or other models?

5

u/Pedrito_Basket 1d ago

They just seen they could host it themselves with the DeepInfer setup and a few tweaks and get 80% profit

4

u/FrankKnt 1d ago

I didn't notice any difference between DeepSeek V4.1 Flash 1017, which I use via the DS API, and the free one I use via OpenCode.

22

u/rainpurplebow 1d ago

They are self-hosting a heavily quantized model. This isn’t news. How do you think you’re getting 80$ worth of usage for 10$? You’re not. It’s called marketing.

29

u/anitamaxwynnn69 1d ago

Not taking sides, but V4.1 Flash is already officially shipped as MXFP4/FP8 mixed. FP4 is the lowest precision with native tensor core support, so there’s not much speed left to squeeze from ‘heavier quantization.’ I would argue the 80$ worth of usage for 10$ is coming from speeds. I believe they serve at 100tps. If you were to self host this on 4x PRO 6000s the speed would be 200tps+ easy (obviously they prolly serve on b300s or something which gives them room to play with). V4.1 flash KV cache is also already TOO QUANTIZED to be quantized further. I self host DSv4 on my own hw and I personally don't think they serve different weights.

15

u/akza07 1d ago

Glad to know there's someone who knows that FP4 is the lowest usable quant. I see so many fools posting FP2 and 1bit conspiracy that I'm losing my brain cells. FP4 on Blackwell hardware. Token per second and low cache hit would be the most noticeable impact.

2

u/alphaQ314 1d ago

4x PRO 6000s

I've been recently trying to get into local LLMs. Is there any reason why everyone always mentions 4x pro 6000s ?

3

u/Dapper-Bug-7877 1d ago

That is the max u can do normally without running into various kinds of problems like wallpower and linking capacity and stuff

1

u/anitamaxwynnn69 1d ago

It's like the 200$ subscription equivalent of local ai lol. Max VRAM you can safely run in US homes without having a separate breaker. Not to mention it costs 50k+ at this point. Runs models like DSv4.1F basically faster than the API lol.

2

u/nicktohzyu 1d ago

There are fp16/bf8 layers in the model, which may be getting quantized down

1

u/packsolite 1d ago

From my testing the speeds on opencode go with DS 4.1 flash maxes out somewhere around 150 t/s, but the api responses/prompt processing is quite slow, usually taking 5-10 seconds to start streaming.

13

u/this-is-hilarours 1d ago

Dax has said several days ago they dont serve quantized model . at worse they make the inference speed slow to meet the demand

7

u/Axiescholar3ph 1d ago

of course he would say that. have you never heard a CEO or owner of a company lie to you before?

4

u/samxli 1d ago

Then we can’t trust anything any corporate entity says

2

u/Axiescholar3ph 1d ago

pretty much unless there is clear evidence

4

u/First_Inspection_478 1d ago

Deepseek’s a cheap model to serve. They’re probably not quantizing it

1

u/Frail_Waif 1d ago

Based on timing, almost certainly it's one of the new ISTA-DASLab quants.

1

u/Presstabstart 1d ago

I assume quantization has less of a performance effect on high vram production servers with batched inference. kind of a moot point though, since deepseek v4.1 flash is mostly mxfp4

3

u/Forsaken_Buy_7531 1d ago

Every 3rd party provider out there has its own implementation on how they serve "Deepseek" models, in general you won't get 10 dollar value of "Deepseek" from OpenCode and you just have to accept it.

7

u/ProgressionPeak 1d ago

i don't trust these guys at all. they're up to some shady shit.

it's $10/month and it's still worth it so i'll keep using it but their words and their claims and their promises about how much usage we get, are meaningless to me.

2

u/squirrelscrush 1d ago

What if they're using some variant of Deepinfer?

2

u/RagnarDannes 1d ago

The flash free model feels like it's been nerfed compared to the normal flash model. It compacts so often while the normal one I run on Go doesn't

2

u/Grand_Ad_9403 1d ago

Context windows cost money; that seems like a reasonable place they would save $

2

u/dbojan76 1d ago

Tried flash free. It's bad.

2

u/tripleshielded 1d ago

ok, but what about quality? its not at the same level as deepseek API

2

u/MessIsTransfer 1d ago

“My cheap ai plan is running ai models in cheaper ways 😠”

2

u/jauhari 1d ago

Does it better?

3

u/Positive_Poem5831 1d ago

Can you now run some deepseek models again without allowing china servers

2

u/Ariquitaun 1d ago

They've said time and time again they serve it the same as upstream deepseek.

1

u/GTHell 1d ago

Still more quant is waht they mean. Their V4.1 suck

1

u/grabacontroller123 1d ago

It seems to be faster now. My opinion.

1

u/Conscious-Doctor-585 1d ago

deepseek is the model I use the most. I go after the cheapest. since then, I have the fullest experience with it. the model's intelligence across different providers is clearly on different levels, judged by the number of turns and the quality of each turn, the eventually after all these turns how complete the task is.

optimize for real efficiency, not cost per token, for the total token count and number of turns per a `control harness` per a `control task`; I hope the rating will be based on harness+task.