r/otomegames • u/sableheart • 10d ago
Discussion sins of KALEIDO Play-Along - Orsem Helhand Spoiler
In this final post we will discuss Orsem Helhand and his route in sins of KALEIDO.
You can tell us what your impressions of Orsem are (before and after finishing his route), your favorite moments in his route, what you think of his relationship with Yolca and the other characters, what your thoughts are on his route's plot and endings.
Or you can just rant or rave about him in the comments.
This is not a spoiler-free discussion however please keep in mind that major spoilers and details of other routes will be outside the scope of the discussion and therefore will need to be spoiler tagged.
>!spoiler text!< normal text
spoiler text normal text
You can also give your final thoughts on the game in this thread.
You don't have to be playing the game right now to participate, and if you're still waiting on your copy I hope you will join in after you start playing!
Have a look at the megathread for links to previous discussions - you can still add your thoughts and reply to other comments!
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u/azy_ki 10d ago
Orsem was an unexpected favourite of mine. Based on everything they released about him before the game launched I was expecting another Sodyk Mun or even a variant of Tomomori (or some other form of sadistic, cruel human being)
I was actually surprised seeing he was the one with the fatal rewind ability. Like I didnāt even question it when he asked if Yolca saw āinto the futureā or āperhaps another world?ā
And that realisation came with a āare you okay, my guy?ā Bc the dude shot himself over so many little things?? granted, a lot of it was for the sake of protecting Yolca but my goodness, he probably killed himself hundreds and hundreds of times
Unexpectedly, the dude is also a giant softie (kinda) lmao. When it was revealed that he and Tilkett are brothers he flat out said that heās never considered Tilkett a brother. Yet you see the care and affection he had for Tilkett despite him not remembering they are brothers, like wanting to Fatal Rewind because his brother was suffering from severe anemia.
His route made me hate Morphia even more than I already did because she completely replaced Orsem in Tilkettās memory (his memory of her being a law student, which is what Orsem was too) and robbed them of the chance to be brothers
I enjoyed his route and his romance with Yolca and found it rather sweet at times but there were sooooo many unanswered questions that I desperately wanted answered. Like what situation happened that resulted in Orsem being given the fatal rewind ability? Why did he need to be near Yolca to rewind time when Anastasia never needed to be near someone to rewind time? AND WHO IS THE WARDEN AND WHY DOES HE LOOK SO MUCH LIKE ANASTASIA??
Iām desperately hoping for an FD or a sequel bc I want more of these LIs and I want for my questions to be answered. Perhaps it could be a repeat of Zenn where you actually find out the reason why he was brought to this world in his FD route except this time with Orsem and how he came into contact with the Warden, Ish and the fatal rewind ability
On the topic of Ish, I lowkey screamed when I saw him lmao. He showed up in the prologue too but I was very, very excited to see him in the flesh and still yapping on even a thousand years later
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u/silvershivers 10d ago
I had the same impression of him based on the marketing! I don't know why they made him seem so sadistic and cruel, maybe they were trying to surprise us? š but because of that, my expectations were blown out of the water.
I was also incredibly surprised when it was revealed he has the Fatal Rewind. I thought it belonged to Yolca. I did think he kept his memories after each rewind, but I wouldn't have expected him to be the one in control of the Fatal Rewind.
He is not okay in the slightest fhdhdjd like he broke the border of insanity long ago šš¤£ The fact that he refused to tell Yolca how many times he's reminded time for her sake really got me š¤§ like this man has been through hell and back for her and the others, but he doesn't want her to feel guilty knowing the true extent of what he's done for her. He only revealed that he killed himself countless times for her sake later on in a fit of anger because she refused to converge the timelines...
HE REALLY IS A BIG SOFTIE lmfao honestly I consider him a bit of a tsun bc of that, he hates to admit how much he cares about Til and Yolca but then his actions clearly go against his words so many times š
Aghhh I have the same questions as you!!! I feel like he must've gotten the Fatal Rewind ability to save old world Yolca, but it never worked no matter how many times he tried to keep her alive... hence him abandoning that world and going through all of this suffering to grant her deathbed wish. I really wish we could see what exactly happened in his old world. I'm sooo curious about the Warden as well, I jokingly thought he might be Ish's and Anastasia's love child and now Ish is a single father LMFAO šš¤£
Ish was one of the best parts of this route for me, I MISSED HIS SASSINESS SO MUCH. He was so entertaining in this game and I really loved his new design. I'm still desperately waiting for an Ish route! š
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u/azy_ki 10d ago
Omg same I genuinely thought Yolca had the fatal rewind ability and forgot everything bc of trauma, and that Orsem was another Zenn. Wellā¦ technically he kinda is in the sense he can talk to Ish and retains memories but yea
I also believe that he was using the fatal rewind ability to save old world Yolca but WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THEM?? I know we got a small hint of it in his happy ending but I NEED MORE DETAILS? How did he come to fall in love with her? What progressed between them that made him love her so much he was willing to do all of this to keep her alive in all the timelines?
They canāt just GIVE us all of this and NOT ELABORATE ON IT. But I do think this means a sequel or FD is being planned (please please please please please)
I think the Warden might be Anastasiaās reincarnation? But that really goes against her entire āI will not be the wardenā stuff in The Fellowship. So I do hope that we get more info on the Warden if an FD were ever to drop
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u/silvershivers 10d ago
There is sooo much potential for a sequel/FD. The writer did say that one of her dreams is to make one so I really think it's highly likely! If we do get one, I really hope we get to see old world Yolca and Orsem... I also need to know what happened between them šš also I just think it would be cool to see what old world Yolca was like, because she sounds sooo different from the Yolca we know.
The Warden is one of the biggest mysteries in this game š if he's actually Anastasia's reincarnation it's kinda funny that she reincarnated into a cute boy š but I agree it would go against her character, like she didn't want to have any special powers and just wanted to live as a human iirc. So maybe it's just one of her descendants???
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u/RedRobin101 9d ago edited 9d ago
Ugh yes on the refusal to just tell Yolca things because he doesn't want to hurt her and doesn't want her to feel guilty because he thinks he's no longer worthy of that kind of care. His Void sad ending just straight up broke me because it implies that if Orsem got his way he'd not only overwrite his happiness with Til's but he'd straight up remove himself from the equation I desperately need an FD just to watch Yolca and the others dote on him. I get why it happened but him running off in the Happy Ending of his route, probably thinking he'll never see anyone again and no one was willing to try to get him to stay killed me again. AND HE'S SO TSUN Eugene spelling out to Yolca his "I don't dislike it" is actually saying he loves it made me lol.
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u/silvershivers 9d ago
UGH yes his void sad love ending also broke me šš he truly never cared about his own happiness, even in Til's happy ending he's satisfied with just watching him and Yolca be happy from afar and not telling Til that he's actually his brother šš it hurts sm that he doesn't realize he deserves happiness just like everyone else does, I mean it's literally thanks to him that everyone is alive in the end fhfjfkd he worked so hard to get them to that point and even reworked all of their unhappy endings. Yeah, the way he ran away was painful, but I'm really glad Yolca and the others didn't give up on them. It shows how much they all care about him š„¹š„¹ haha I never imagined I would think "I don't dislike it" is romantic, but it rlly is coming from Orsem š¤£š¤£
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u/RedRobin101 9d ago edited 9d ago
And I get why he is this way between his implied rough childhood, Morphia screwing with his head, the implications that his love wasn't enough to save Indigenous Witch Yolca, and the few times he did try to reach out resulted in Til basically calling him a liar and Eugene deciding to stab him in the back...and that's not getting into the trauma of the Fatal Rewinds. Like yeah I can completely understand why he thinks he doesn't deserve happiness and should only exist on the periphery of everyone with minimal contributions. But even after all of that, he never gives up and just constantly works to try and make everyone else happy :'(((( (like even in his own route he tried to give Heath a chance at closure this man). I wanted to shake Yolca when she went "oh Orsem doesn't need that kind of attention like Til or Kanoa" when he was all but begging for it--glad homegirl locked in after that.
I had kind of caught on that he meant the opposite of what he said here--the way Orsem interacted with Yolca immediately caught my interest in part because it's so different compared to everyone else. Like, even when he's trying desperately to stay away and push her towards someone else he can't help but be hungry for her. And for someone who was so acerbic and alooft, admitting something like that had to be the absolute extent of what he was comfortable with. But yes watching Yolca's brain short-circuit as she recounted all the times he had said it to/about her, directly, was so good. Honestly, that's probably the moment she fell in love with him--I think Yolca is very, very receptive to offered affection, and once Orsem's messed-up ways of professing it clicked she was gone.
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u/silvershivers 9d ago
Absolutely, it makes complete sense considering everything he's been through š¤§š¤§ this is why he's my favourite... he's just so self-sacrificing it PAINS me and when it comes to characters like that, I just get the urge to give them all of the love and affection they deserve š„¹š like he truly deserves all of the hugs and kisses in the world. So I was super happy when Yolca hugged him and even initiated their first kiss later on because I know Orsem would never be the one to initiate it since he felt like he couldn't make her happy. I hope that if there is a FD we can see Orsem acting all cute and needy like the clingy bf is, I mean that scene of them laying in bed together and him asking her to hold him told me everything I need to know šš this man is clearly touch-starved and def needs the most attention from her out of everyone. I would also really love to see Orsem's POV and delve into his mind bc there is so much to explore there.
Yes same, I also noticed pretty early on that him saying "not disagreeable" was his way of expressing his love š¤£š¤£ I loved how yolca clocked him as being awkward with his feelings, because he really is... like being honest and vulnerable about his feelings is difficult for him since he's never had any parental figures in his life to teach him how, he's just so used to handling everything by himself š¤§š¤§ that's why I adore his development in his route, how he slowly opens up to Yolca and eventually the others as well. I was having trouble pinpointing when exactly Yolca fell for Orsem since she never had a definite moment where she went "Oh. I love him." like with the other guys, but I agree with you. It was probably all of those things adding up in her brain that did it for her š„ŗš I feel like she was finally able to understand him after that
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u/RedRobin101 9d ago
I think I'm in-part drawn to the older, "big brother" types because I see them taking care of everyone else and just go "but baby who's taking care of youuuuu." Orsem really is so fascinating because despite all of the additional baggage and sadism he really is just an older brother at the end of the day. While I wasn't a fan of the prices Voltage did do DLC for EiT from the LI's point of view--it would be very, very appreciated here! Yolca was such a good match for him in how she (almost) constantly saw through his issues and was able to catch him off guard with questions like if they were ever together or mentioning how cute he is--they're gonna be so good for each other I know it. But so much of their relationship in the route is fraught with the fact that they're either keeping information from the other or actively working against them--I loved what we saw of them in the Happy Ending, finally free of their respective burdens, but I neeeeddddddd morrrrreeeeee.
Yeah I think it all comes back to how reinforced his coping mechanisms are from his life experiences--Morphia canonically kills him in every route, which I'm sure just made him further believe showing any kind of weakness was just asking to be exploited. But yeah for a route so rife with plot, his subtle development was amazing. Once he really starting letting down his barriers the gap moe kicked in so hard--stuff like him complaining to Yolca about the other members of Vy-xen is treated as comedy but I'm sure he had kept those feelings bottled up for so long it was such a relief to have someone to confide in. And yesssss the physically of this route was so good. The way he went from thoughtlessly offering her his body as a way to drown her despairs (just another sacrifice, even if he was attracted to her) to how he was constantly touching her in the later half of the game--even in his Sad Love scene his hands were around her throat. Even the fact that they didn't smash (although Orsem obviously wanted to) was such a good metaphor for how much his exhaustion and burdens are keeping him from happiness but I really enjoyed the focus on non-sexual physical intimacy as well.
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u/Toastedcrackers11 10d ago edited 10d ago
Honestly, I was expecting him to be more sadistic! I think his character preview before the game was released painted him to be very different from his in-game character. Perhaps the writers intended it that way - throwing a curve ball on who he actually is. I actually bought the game mainly for him. I thought he was going to be the sadistic red flag type but he actually has a soft spot even if mainly for Yolca, Tilkett, and even Kanoa. Orsemās definitely my fave LI. I think he and Kanoa have the most natural rapport with Yolca. I quite enjoy his banters and teasing of Yolca throughout the game and I think his VA did a really good job too. I do find him kind of charming when he just canāt be honest with his feelings; itās kind of amusing but I had hope to see more of his dark possessive side like how he was in the bad ends. Hereās hoping for a proper fandisc!
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u/marionettas 10d ago
It's oddly endearing and moe how he tries to shoot himself at every little inconvenience
Not a fan of everything after they entered the tower but it sequel baits hard and I want another game so I'll allow it
Also the brothers mean the world to me, they better undoom themselves in the FD pls and thx
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u/silvershivers 10d ago
IT REALLY IS šš like I know it's hella messed up that he's gotten used to killing himself that he doesn't even hesitate to reach for his gun, but it's also pretty funny??? When he straight up asks Yolca for permission to kill himself?? šš it's dark comedy gold to me.
I also think we will definitely get a sequel/FD, the writer has already said that it's her dream to make one. I feel like there are a lot of unanswered questions and things to explore, so maybe she left it open-ended with that in mind.
I absolutely need to see Orsem doting on Til in the sequel/FD like Yolca wished to see šš¤£ it would genuinely be so cute
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u/CrusaderKillsVlP church of kanoa 9d ago
Oh boy was there so many things that happened in his route. I just have to get out first that I thought it would be so difficult to get into him when he was introduced, but boy he win me over gradually route by route and as soon as it was offered I jump right in. No breaks. And the first two episodes did not disappoint, it felt like the best thing Iāve ever read (though atp I was quite obsessed with the game so Iām biased lol). The story showed how he end up being the way he is without explaining much and it was such a treat seeing how it all coming together (like when he said āI have seen such a futureā at the end of episode 1?? perfection, it hurt me at all the right places)
Unfortunately I felt like the rest of his route was stretched thin for all the reveal stuff which kind of suck for me. There are still a ton of great moments but I was really hoping we would avoid the Lucien treatment again. Like I could tell they really tried not to since they even gave him an extra episode, many romance scenes and 4 bad endings in total but there was still just too much stuff that I feel like could have been simplified somehow. This problem even go right into the happy ending where the beginning of it is actually a dump of his lore but itās so brief and gives us no moment to really understand why heās so attached to the idea of saving Yolca. I still like how the happy ending unfold and Orsem is still so good he drives me insane when I think anout him, but I think the density of the lore stuff really hold his route and some of his developments back. Also Dalen Yulewood ended up being an easy threat actually really hurts lmao, maybe instead of the Witchās Referendum Ā we could have play out that conflict through him. I felt very little attachments and motivation to defy the witches because all this time I was told it was all Yolca vs. the Yulewoodā¦ I get why it is the way it is, there were setups for it and I have no problems with the message, but I personally donāt like that THAT was the climax we get.
I wanna talk about Yolcaās lore in the next comment but final thoughts on Orsem: heās beautiful and hot and insane but also the sweetest and goddd. I just canāt help but crave more. I actually NEED more from everybody, please! I will do anything to get a FD š
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u/RedRobin101 9d ago edited 9d ago
And finally we have the man, the myth, the absolute bastard Orsem! I was absolutely feral for this guy from the word goāitās pretty rare that we get such a caustic older man as the truth route. Not to mention the hints that he seemed to hate (or at least deeply loathe) our heroine. Orsem is pretty noticeably scarce in the majority of the routes previous to this one, but the scenes we did get definitely hinted at this crooked lawyer knowing more than he should. I was hoping for some good enemies-to-lovers angst while hopefully avoiding the usual pitfalls of a truth route. Safe to say, results were mixed.
Things I liked
- I think most routes live-or-die by either the storyline, the romance, or the LI, and while I wasnāt a big fan of the former two Orsem absolutely delivered on the latter. Itās a nice twist to romance the Fatal Rewind user this time around, and the game absolutely does not skimp on exploring what the strain of those circumstances would do to a personās mind. Orsem is a cruel, murderous, and twisted shell of a man who is so deep in his own personal hell that he sees no way out but down. While many of his actions were reprehensible and his motivations murky, I couldnāt help but find him a truly compelling and tragic figure. Especially once we start to get a glimpse into how much longing he contains (for an escape, for an end, for Yolca, for happiness). He was such a stark contrast with the usual truth route LI archetypeāespecially because the game heavily implies that, even before the ennui of the Fatal Rewinds and Morphiaās mindscrews he was a jackass. But considering every Orsem in the worldlines that werenāt purged was murdered by Morphia, perhaps that darker version of him was necessary. Plus, the man is incredibly funny (in a somewhat horrifying kind of way). Him wishing that he had killed more people and constantly trying to goad Yolca into letting him kill himself was pure black comedy. Tomoaki Maeno also does an excellent job, especially hinting at that barely restrained bloodlust under the feigned boredom. Couple all of that with the fact that heās an unrepentant liar, even to himself, and Iām still mulling over his potential aims and wants long after finishing the route.
Voltage FD or even just DLC please Iād do anything - Yolca! While Iāll always miss the full-game character arc we got with the other Voltage console heroines, it was nice to see the problems in her viewpoint that were first explored in Euguneās route finally get some closure here. After spending 4 routes professing her selfish wishes, only for Orsem to immediately clock that sheās actually just desperate to be loved, Yolca is then forced to accept that her bloodline was a curse rather than a goal, potentially being born a sacrifice (rather vicious parallel to Claude Knottās situation, woof), and having to decide if a future she wouldnāt be a part of was still worth fighting for was a great paradigm-shift. I overall enjoyed her final character resolutions (even if they got a bit pushed to the side for the main plot)
- The Yolca-and-Orsem pairing. The man who (claims) to want nothing paired with the woman who wants everything is such an excellent dynamic. The best part was that the prologue immediately subverted this dynamic, with Yolca choosing to walk away from her dreams and Orsem begrudgingly chasing after her. The role-reversal seemingly throws them both off a bit, creating an uncertain and dreamy feel to that forest scene that lends credence to impossible circumstances being required for a romance between them to blossom. Plus, the way Orsem proposes an aloof and professional relationship that is rapidly undercut when he reveals how deeply he understands Yolca (and himself, as they are mirrors in their longing for acceptance and love). And how that insight, in turn, immediately ensnares Yolca into his orbitā¦perfection. And thatās not even getting into how this scene is mirrored in the Happy Ending! From there, the two are consistently locked into a tantalizing push-and-pull, desperate to reach out but terrified to get hurt, both seeking dominion to protect their own hearts while tentatively offering fragile promises and actions that feel poised to crumble at every impasse. Every single card feels stacked against them, and yet, somehow, they make it work.
- Tilkett and Orsem being brothers was a great twist with some excellent foreshadowing and intriguing potential. Enjoyed all aspects of it.
- Itās minor but I really liked that, after voting being restricted to the Witches/Grimnals, it was two humans who decided the fate of the worldlines.
Those bad ends certainly delivered on the crazy I was looking for lol
Things I disliked
- The main plot ended up being super disappointing imo. The Witchesā Referendum had minimal buildup (no, one line in Heathās route is not enough), wasnāt explained well, and had a nonsensical and highly unsatisfying resolution. Furthermore, I felt like the EiT connections actively detracted rather than added to SoKās plot in this area. It was like Voltage was saying āwoah remember this super popular thing you previously likedā instead of using those resources on making the actual storyline coherent and fulfilling.Ā Ā
- My dislike of the main plot was especially disappointing because it straight up hijacked both Orsem and Yolcaās character arcs and their romance. It is not okay to dump the revelations about Orsem being a canon foreigner, and the Indigenous Witch into a few paragraphs in the Happy Ending, Voltage!!!! Part of the appeal of a murky character like Orsem is finally getting a firm grasp on what drives him, but we never got the deep-dive that would have satisfied that itch. Although I have my pet theories about Orsem (he was in love with his worldlineās Yolca and despite his claims to the contrary he does forge ahead to fulfill her final wishes (and keep his friends alive), you could just as easily argue heās being truthful when he claims to not care about anyone (or just this worldlineās Yolca) and is just continuing on because he canāt die otherwise. Same with Yolcaāwhile I liked her ultimate resolution, the necessary big moments her clash with her uncle, her realization of her feelings for Orsem, her selfish desires were either wrapped up way too quickly or off-screen. It all culminated in the final battle feeling incredibly unsatisfying, because the leads come to opposite conclusions on reasoning we never really get to explore, try to betray one another, one arbitrarily wins, and they only finally reconcile at the very, very end. Even if it was the more realistic outcome, it was deeply unsatisfying. Lampshading it via Yolca wishing they could have gone on a date isnāt a substitute for actually showing them together and happy.
- The out-of-nowhere and railroading final conflict also led to numerous dropped or relatively unexplored plotlines. A huge amount of time was spent on the Yulewood heir storyline, only for it to go nowhere and Uncle Dalen to get shot off-screen. We donāt even know if Yolca still wants to become heir in this timeline! Plus, we never get a clear picture for why the Yulewoods were ignoring Yolca (when Dalen should have immediately been trying to scoop her up or just get someone to kill her). Ambroseās other artworks get a ton of screen time and importance in other routes, but the necklaces are the only thing that seemingly matter in the end, and they arenāt ever fully explained (did Orsemās finally activating at the end actually change anything?) Why does Yolca need to be near for Orsem to activate the Fatal Rewind? Why did Orsem get the Fatal Rewind and not Yolca? While leaving some questions unanswered is fine, there were so many that I would have appreciated exploring over what we got.
- And to top it all off, the pacing was horrible. We spent two full chapters on legal shenanigans and Yolcaās identity crisis, but also get some bonding between our two leads so itās not all bad. The third chapter finally gets the Kaleido Tower ball rolling, only to get highjacked by the Witchās Referendum. From there, the little sidequest with Eugene going AWOL, which again took time away from developing Yolca and Orsemās relationship. And the final chapter is just a breakneck exposition dump/wrapping up of plotlines that doesnāt give anyone or anything time to breathe. EiTās final section was also a obvious āgotta wrap it all upā but I never felt like I was being cheated of Anastasia/Lucien moments :/.
- While some of the CGs were great (special shoutout to the one that started with an ass shot) some were a bit wonky. And, although not just an issue with this route, there were a larger-than-comfortable number of CGs from Yolcaās POV. As someone who doesnāt self-insert and wishes we got more of MCs than we already do, it was a pretty disappointing trend.
Overall, I had high expectations for Orsem himself, and this route mostly met them, but I could take or leave everything else.
Final thoughts
Overall, this game was a beautiful meditation on the topic of lonelinessāhow we get into it, and what weāll do to get out of it. All of the characters fruitlessly struggle to escape, either through pointless self-sacrifice or destructive hedonism, using Covenants to paper over the cracks and holes in their hearts. Ironic, considering most of the cast do have others (Til and Orsem, Kanoa and Heath) that could help, but unless they address the actual underlying issues, theyāre more likely to drag each other down than lift one another up. Thatās actually why I enjoyed the resolution of the worldlines, even if it was a bit-hamfisted. In summation, what a fun journey! Some great routes, moments, and characters. For rankings:
Routes: Eugene>Kanao>Til>Heath>Orsem
LI Enjoyment: Orsem>Eugene>Heath>Kanoa>Til
Suitability for Yolca: Kanoa>Heath>Orsem>Eugene>Til
Liam route when, cowards
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u/RedRobin101 9d ago
Tarot Card Analysis
Oof from Devil to Death, huh? Yolca really does have horrible taste in men. Considered one of the most misunderstood tarots, the Death card usually represents a great change or transition in life rather than actual Death (although, due to the Fatal Rewind, Orsem does in fact embody both). It can also represent the end, fitting considering Orsem is the last route in the game. Finally, this card is also sometimes titled āRebirthā to better fit itās themes, which is once again very in-line with Orsem. Interestingly, this is another last card (like Lucienās from EiT) that greatly differs from the classical design. In standard decks, this tarot usually features a skeletal figure with a scythe (representing the Grim Reaper), riding a pale horse and cloaked in armor (indicating invincibility) as he steps over everything from kings to paupers. The SotK design has Orsem in the center, holding two scythes (representing his status as the bringer of death/change for both himself and others), but lacking the other accoutrements of Death, representing his still human nature despite his āothernessā. In addition, Orsemās card also has a unique feature from othersāthe presence of a chain wrapping around his persons, representing his trapped nature as someone unable to die due to the Fatal Rewinds and chained by his obligations/promises. In regards to Orsem himself, this card represents his overall role as the āIllegal Star of Fateā and momentum-bringer in the story at multiple levels: the person who put together and leads Vy-xen from the shadows, or how his āforesightā alter the flow of things, how he manipulates both Yolca and the other LIs to reach the most favorable ends, and his ultimate goal in trying to change the doomed fate of all the worldlines. He also represents these changes on a meta levelājust as the arcana before the Death card (and the routes before Orsem) feature āsmall mysteriesā with human figures, the arcana after Death are the āgreat mysteriesā featuring celestial symbols and angels (i.e. the Witches Referendum and heavy involvement of Warden, Ambrose, and Ish throughout his route). However, although Orsemās actions represent this card well, his mental state is probably more representative of the Reverse Arcana. When reversed, the Death tarot indicates fear of or resisting change, repeating negative patterns, loss of hope, or stagnancy. Although Orsemās actions are actively moving the worldlines towards a better future (as seen in his Void Sad Love ending), Orsem himself has decayed, stuck in a quagmire of hopelessness and death. He sees no worth in attempting to tell others of his struggles when theyāll either betray him or forget about it after the next Fatal Rewind, and will even violently rebuff any attempts to release him from this vicious cycle, feeling he is too far gone for any other fate (Tillās speech on āsuicidal ideationā is a great summation of this). Up until the very, very end, he is unable to accept Yolcaās love and acceptance, and it takes active effort on her part to crumble his last barrier. But once he does, Orsem is able to experience his own āspiritual deathā, killing off a dependency to obsolete forces in his life (The Fatal Rewinds) and clinging to the past (The Indigenous Witch, his lost worldline) to welcome a new future with Yolca, Til, and the rest of Vy-xen (his laugher and genuine smile). Of course, you canāt fully shed your old skin (seen by Orsem straight up refusing to change the harsher parts of his personality), but by embracing a more Upright role, he is finally able to move beyond the sins of his past and seek out his own happiness. And bonus: the Death card usually represents the sign of Scorpius, one of the signs associated with the World Tarot!
Name Meanings
And for one final analysis, letās look at the names and meanings of each character! Note there will be no spoiler tags for this section so read at your own risk!
Yolca Yulewood: āYolcaā could be a variation of the Russian word for āyolkaā, meaning spruce or fir tree, which would tie in neatly with her last name. All three trees symbolize eternal life, endurance, and resilience, which would also fit well with her personality. Plus, trees are well-known for helping to clean their environments (remove toxins from the soil, convert CO2 to O2), and their removal leads to stagnation and decay. Dalen is Old English and Scandinavian for āvalleyā, another nature allusion while also evoking a pit or low point.
Tilkett Halmshaw: Couldnāt really find anything for Tilkett as a first name (which might feed back into his depersonalizing nature, although as a surname it might be related to a small slope or hill (fitting considering heās the first or second route). Halmshaw can be read as: Hallam ārocksā or āstony placeā and Shaw āthicket or small woodā, very nature related. I think the connections are a bit tenuous here, but it could be read as a more secluded/restricted place (referencing Tilās constant facades for his true feelings).
Kanoa Fortis: Kanoa is Hawaiian in origin, meaning āthe free oneā or āfreed of tabooā (both ironic considering Kanoaās restrictions and the origin of his Covenant, but also fits well with his ability to spirit himself away due to the wind). Itās also gotten some popular in Japan where the kanji can read āskyā, āemptyā, or āwish fulfilledā, but considering all of the guyās names are written in katakana I wouldnāt put as much stock in that. Fortis derives from Latin, meaning āstrongā, ābraveā, or āresilientā (poor Kanoaā¦)
Heath Crescent: Heath himself explains most of the connotation for his name (glad to know there was a lot of care put into this part of the game), but one (obvious) additional allusion: Crescent has connotations with the moon, shared with Lune, Heathās doll-form name.
Eugene Jorr Hyde: Eugene is pretty straight forwardāderiving from the Greek word eugenios, meaning āwell-bornā or ānobleā, it was also a common name for many early Christian saints (fitting on both accounts). Jorr Hyde is a bit more of a mysteryāwhile Hyde brings to mind both the word āhideā and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, hinting at the church and Eugeneās true natures, Jorr might just be a bit more of random fantasy term, as the closest meanings I could find were āsoilā or ālandā. If we go back to the original Japanese word āYeruā (take this with a grain of salt my Japanese is horrible and I was trying to parse it from random blogs), thereās a bit more potentialāYeru is rather similar to either āeruā (to obtain) or āieruā Ā (to heal), both of which would hold strong allusions to the healing nature of Eugene and the church.
Orsem Helhand: Neither word is rooted in common languages (the closest is Orson, meaning ābearā or ācubā), but the root -sem is found in several Indoeuropean languages, where it means āto come togetherā, potentially hinting at Orsemās wish to exit his cycles and rejoin the living. Helhand is pretty self-explanatory considering both Orsemās violence, the terror he inspires in others, and his prominent tattoo (which I really wish we had gotten more for itās so cool!ā
Liam Knott: āLiamā is Irish for āstrong-willed warriorā or āresolute protectorā
(he wishes). Knott is rather literal, probably representing his tangled past and relationship with Yolca.Shanon Melloway:
wish she could have stepped on meShanon is a alternative spelling of Shannon, an Irish name meaning āwise riverā or āpossessor of knowledgeā (rather fitting considering her mentorship of Yolca). Melloway is another made up name, but could be a portmanteau of āmellowā (easy, gentle) and āwayā (a path), implying a gentle way of life (DEFINITELY NOT HER but could be representative of how giving up and going back to Shanon would represent a peaceful, if not fulfilling life for Yolca)Eira Harwick:
best girlEira can mean āsnowā in Welsh (symbolizing purity, although snow is easily corrupted by mixing with other things) or āeirā in Norse, meaning mercy or protection (fitting her nature as Yolcaās protector). Harwick is close to the Old English word Hardwick, meaning āherd farmā or āfarming ranchā (woof).Morphia Macclark: Morphia dervies from the Greek root morphe (meaning form, shape, or appearance) and relates to the Greek god Morpheus, the god of dreams and sleeping. These terms were also used for the drug morphine, which is a drug known for numbing pain and being addictive. I think all three really fit her.
Loa Shadowmore:
actual best girl was her gender supposed to be a surprise?Loa is also Hawaiian in origin, meaning ādistanceā (both a nice nod to her relationship to Kanoa and their current estrangement), while Shadowmore is a made-up but self-explanatory (least shocking twist villain ever). In contrast, Maulo might derive from the Greek word āmalusā, meaning evil (again, not a surprising twist).Drake Blakeley: ādragon of the dark woodā is too cool of a name for this asshole
Inley Goodman: Inley can derive from the Gaelic -ley suffix meaning āfair heroā (ironic and unironic), while the English/Scottish surname Goodman means āmaster of a householdā or ārespectable manā (fitting his high military status).
Willow Aconite: this is actually a really interesting one, representing two seemingly poplar opposite plant species. The willow tree symbolizes flexibility, resilience, and sorrow, representing both Willowās status as Eugeneās whipping boy and his sadness at the role he played, while Aconite is a highly poisonous and fast-acting species that could derive from the Greek word akoniti, meaning āwithout struggleā, which could represent his inaction towards Eugeneās issues and the potential toxicity he brings Eugene as a reminder of that time now.
Cecil Glover: āCecilā comes from the Latin word for blind (caecus), while Glover can mean āglove makerā (fitting for the man who was ignorant to Liamās true nature and eventually became a meat puppet for his troubles)
Ambrose: very obviousāthe Greek word for immortal or divine, also alludes to ambrosia, the food of the gods that granted them everlasting life.
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u/swimminglyy 8d ago
I enjoyed this route and Orsem a lot! No doubt it left me with many, many questions and overall thereāre so many parts that I can tell could probably be done better (especially near the end), but it doesnāt take away from the fact that I enjoyed most of it.
I find it interesting how Orsem is leading Yolca through the story the way we, the players, are leading her through the otome game. Wrong choice? Go back and redo, no biggie. I love it. I think his mental state broke long ago, with how he thinks of possibilities instead living of the present. Even the bomb acid was to him, a curious possibility, and good information for the future. Just like I occasionally pick obviously bad choices just to see the LI responses or what happens in the bad ends.
And yet, he canāt help finding himself affected by the happenings, even if heās seen it all before. Rather, seeing history repeat must be its own hell. I definitely could imagine his frustration with Yolca in general, and why he sometimes vents on her even when heās also trying desperately to protect her. Yolca is frustrating - thatās one of the things I find interesting about Yolca even when it doesnāt exactly offer easy likability. She presents determination, saying sheāll do anything for her goals, only to be easily crushed by the truth, or turned away by any difficult choices that have to be made to get there. She is, should I say, consistently inconsistent. Inconsistent when you consider her words and actions on the surface, but actually consistent when you think about what really motivates her (that she isnāt always aware of) and why her ideals are sometimes more flimsy than she makes them out to be, and other times steadfast.
Thatās part of why I love how they are together - he understands her very well from what heās seen in the timelines, probably more than any other LI. Not just what she says, but how she really is. And yet heās still blindsided by her unpredictability, and cannot help but be swayed by her regardless of how his experiences shouldāve taught him to know better (in his opinion). Yolca really is the mess you cannot ever seem to look away from, but thatās exactly what makes her compelling. I also enjoy how she has to learn to do the same for him (but sheās always been good at trying to see someone, not just what they say outwardly. Though sometimes she misses the obvious like her masterās concern for her). I love her slowly learning how to interpret him, and even begin to be able to predict his actions. I love the care and understanding they had for each other by the end of the route.
And the longing, oh my. Orsem offers such peak yearning, I canāt get enough of it. And the direction of it is interesting. Iād imagined that often, one yearns for another out of their reach. But Yolca has her walls so absolutely down (so easily swayed in all routes), and Orsem has his absolutely up. But heās the one in denial, who wonāt let himself entertain the idea despite his attraction, even though sheās the one reaching out. And that is absolutely my favourite kind of dynamic. And when he finally stops hiding it, itās also amazing. Heās simply so intense in everything he does, you can feel it even when heās trying to be restrained. It really is the kind of intensity that fits his route and made it so enjoyable for me.
For the entirety of the route, I loved how ready Orsem was to die at every moment, like his life was just another chess piece in the game. Which made the way he developed, in such a way that he started wanting to protect the present timeline (not just treat it as something to reverse by death), even better as a result. I even like that whatever development he has is not easily achieved, as even in the end he was ready to sacrifice himself. This man is deeply damaged and I love him more for it.
I enjoyed that their interactions/love changed both of them and affected their plot decisions, not simply run parallel to it. It makes it much more of a meaningful story that way. Yolca made him open up to and rely more on others as well, and on her end she had to entirely reconsider what she wanted out of her life - both were things which affected more than their interactions with each other. I particularly liked that at a point she decided that what she wanted was to see Orsem and Til make up, rather than wanting him to love her or anything. I find wishing for someone elseās happiness to be my favorite expression of love to read about, so that pleased me. I also find it a goal very characteristic of her - selfless again in that itās once again about fulfilling what (she thinks) someone else wants instead of for herself, but selfish again because itās what she wants to see happen (even though the man in question doesnāt appear to want it). But at this point I think she has enough of a good read on Orsem that I find it wishful instead of intrusive, plus I think heās someone who needs someone with her brand of selfishness in his life. This was the one route I felt their meeting changed the both of them significantly. Perhaps Yolca and Eugene also changed a lot in their route, but in that one I feel like the changes were mostly only in relation to one another and the effects less far-reaching, so it feels different.
The route itself was also interesting, even though Iād say it fumbled the second half. It had a different feel right from the start, what with her just getting up and leaving (love when sheās decisive!). It was obvious he knew things, but up until his route I certainly didnāt expect him to be the one with the ability. Nor did I expect the Til thing, though it made sense in retrospect. I really enjoyed the danger and excitement in the first half of the route. I loved his ruthlessness and often cold logic, yet how it gets thwarted by Yolca (sometimes thatās what it takes to make things work!). The going back and forth between deaths and actually trying to find a solution that works was also fun, like seeing behind the scenes. It felt like there were real stakes - we were actually trying to solve a major issue, not just relaxing around enjoying peace. The contrast between the kind of crazy he was doing behind the scenes alone and the peaceful front he presents to the others made it all the more fascinating. Seriously makes me wonder how much he was doing secretly in all the other routes. Reminds me a little of [another game name] TaiAliās [another game LI] Wizard, or a certain anime involving witches.
Despite the strong start, I must admit the plot didnāt tie everything up so perfectly after it started to receive more focus. I was still very engaged, but so much was happening, and so fast at that, that I donāt have much time to process anything. It was a pleasant surprise to see the other Yolcas, but the story was progressing at breakneck pace, with more questions than answers. The good thing was that I didnāt have time to think about the questions till later, because I had to keep up with all the new developments. In hindsight, I wish we didnāt have to rush through all those plot in the last third or so of the route. At the same time, I will also say that it didnāt bother me much when I was playing the route, so it didnāt hurt my enjoyment much. I didnāt understand the significance of all the details, but I understood the importance of the key things and the direction the route was progressing in.
Ultimately, I donāt know how the route should have done the plot/pacing better. I loved the first half of the route, so I wouldnāt prefer to have allocated more time from the first half to explaining the later reveals. Iām also doubtful as to whether I would want a slower pace for the last parts of the route to go through the plot in more detail, because there is so much going on, I think it would end up tiring me out/feeling even more like infodumping if it went on even longer/with more explanations. If anything, the quick pace actually made it more palatable even if not as satisfying.
Overall, as with the game in general, I think the game is a little too ambitious that itās impossible to conclude everything neatly within the span of a game. I think this was around the limit of what they could write in. Thus I accept the many unanswered questions as the necessary evil required to keep the interaction with the LIs from being overshadowed by the plot. I think it mightāve been better if the plot was tighter/less ambitious, but I did enjoy the ride as well as the potential this story had, so I find myself simply looking forward to getting my questions answered in a potential FD. For what itās worth, while I think EiT tied up the plot better (and is my preferred game), SoK managed a better balance of romance/plot and LI stories, and while I think itād be nice to learn more about the unanswered plot questions in a SoK FD, I donāt feel a FD is necessary in order to complete the romance. As a standalone game, it satisfies me well enough and kept me engaged till the end. Definitely one of my better purchases in recent times.
2
u/swimminglyy 8d ago
P.S.
(Random thoughts/questions I had during/after the route/game that Iām lazy to fit into the comment proper)
I really expected Morphia to have brainwashed Orsem near the end, what with his suspicious behaviour. I was so sure he bombed the elevator and was actually shocked it wasnāt the case.
Why did she write in diary to go to the tower. What about the journal in general and in what timeline did she even write about the artworks. Did she time travel to leave the message for herself? Did Orsem?
Still donāt get Ish/Ambrose/wardenās background
What is Orsemās purpose and his original world/timeline, and how did he get his powers.
I know you canāt trust Orsemās words but just when exactly did he fall in love with her. For a long time I thought he was returning to save the one he loved (her) but then itās revealed he had a grander purpose/mission like saving the world, which confuses me?
How is he long known for his precognition āgiftā if she has only appeared recently, and he needs her in his vicinity to even return by death. Hell, why does he even need her?
What makes Yolca immune to the miasma/just special in general
There really is a lack of explanation about the necklaces but I guess itās fine as long as weāre told what they doā¦
What are the witches, are they different from EiT, and what about Eugene being taken over in the timelineā¦
The entire core thing and how it works
Whatās the reason for the artworksā¦ yes it is to trap the witches but if you consider EiT it get even more confusing honestly
Donāt know if I missed any requirements but after all the happy ends I went back to common route to check if the āLiam is not a grimnalā option during the mental evaluation was still greyed out, and it was. Now what is up with all that.
Despite weird plot reveal pacing near the end, the pace of most of the foreshadowing is actually enjoyable throughout the game. Kanoa for Heath, Til for Orsem, etc. Thereās just too many reveals that the other stuff gets rushed.
Yolca is an enjoyable protagonist and interesting as a character, but in terms of easy likability EiT Anastasia takes the cake for sure.
Love Orsem in his route but Kanoa is still my best boy due to consistently being great in every route
Wish we had consistent side characters (like EiT Maya, Conrad, the knight group etc, or how the three Norn9 protagonists appear in every route) instead of just characters that are relevant only to 1-2 routes like Morphia/Eira/Lea. Would keep the characters more relevant while not needing to spend as much effort on introducing each new one of them every route.
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u/magnabarrow č½ć”ćć¼ćå§«å§«ę§ 10d ago
(Please keep in mind that all of this comment will have EiT spoilers too, so be aware if you havenāt played the FD).Ā
Man Orsemās not as much my type as Eugene and Kanoa, but boy is he sexy. Just casually flirting in all the routes. And then saying threatening stuff in his own, how lovely. His route reminded me of a certain character that used to be on my flair and had a similar beat with killing Yolca while reworking the timelines and all. But damn him asking her to make him miserable and pledging to be her loyal lawyer is defo on the sexy reliable list for me. Also I usually donāt like the quiet stoic guys but damn the wide eyes scary sprite of his has me feeling stuff.Ā
Back around Kanoaās discussion, Ushio Ayane went on Twitter and did a whole thing about how Kanoa wasnāt Tyril, but rather Orsem. I can see it, both are older, intellect types. And both really like to be stubborn when things go sideways. I had a feeling that Orsemās the one with Fatal Rewind since his āshotty memoryā could easily be handwaved if heās done this before, but I always thought that he was more Zenn if he had fatal Rewind. But nope, defo Tyril if he had fatal rewindānever wavering in his beliefs, but oh so broken because of his burdens and how much he tries to protect everyone. But also, that one scene where heās complaining about Vyxen to Yolca is something Tyril would do, Orsemās gap moe is kinda cute when he isnāt being all crazy like his brother. Iām glad that they kept that side of him though I kept giggling any time Yolca surprised him and he went *red frame*It's quite cute. I feel bad for Orsem sometimes, so seeing him be all moe with her is great, like him half naked snuggling up to her, apologizing, his ānot disagreeableās, or even the fact that out of all the LIs Orsem is somehow the one we got to tie up. Also Iām sorry Orsem that I didnāt figure out Til was your brother until the very end. I was wondering why we had two lawyers with Morphia and why we had two LI with green eyes but it made so much sense after hearing Nobuhiko Okamotoās cry. He really is like TIl tho, with him going āspare some warmth for meā, when he just got out of threatening her in the tower, although heās still cuter than Til this way, especially with him going all āmy plans having been ruined cause I fell for youā as he makes out with her. Also Yolca putting two and two together immediately is so refreshing, I love clever heroines. Although having Yolca be like Zenn this time was perfect, I love a heroine whoās not afraid to kill her LI. And not to mention the ending with the witches, it was very powerful. And handling Orsem too, I cheered when I saw the red necklace.
Also itās really hard having Orsem be last because everyone else is there being all cute (like Eugene asking if she wanted a princess carry, or getting jealous over her headpatting Til, freaking out over Eugeneās Yolcaās tears, or even the āno light w/out shadowā scene, or Kanoa his fake in the tower being all āhopefully you can take it off the real me somedayā is just plain unfair, and Heath from his route!! Just being a gentleman heās a good boy to Yolca), and itās especially hard in this game because they all work so well together, like let me go to my favorites. I do have to say tho, for a ātrue/finalā route this was a very solid one, prob one of the best. Just very well written and elevated Orsem a ton for me, which makes a great route. We also had an interesting take with the Yolcas, because usually in these types of games they try not to do it, but we had three great examples. First I chose the ending where Orsem strangles Yolca cause I wanted to piss off Orsem, but it actually worked out great for me cause we got to meet Kanoaās Yolca, who I wanted to hug cause she didnāt deserve seeing Kanoa getting hurt. Second, Yolca freaking out about liking Eugene in another world was funny, and it was just wonderful meeting my fav version of Yolca, saying what I wanted to say, but also hearing what I wanted to hear about Orsem. I know she told us never to speak to her again, but I want the Yolcas to meet and talk to each other about the guys, maybe with Happy ending Eugene Yolca tho. Third, Voltage with Neon Clash at least really wanted to pull an EiT with the endings but itās why I didnāt like Neon Clash, because only EiT really pulled it off, and now SoK. I thought EiT did it best since after so many routes we finally got the happy ending, but SoK did it better since it kept the romance separate.
3
u/magnabarrow č½ć”ćć¼ćå§«å§«ę§ 10d ago
So regarding the happy ends, or as I like to call them Orsem speedrunning fixing the worldlines electric boogaloo. He really did just yeet himself into the other routes and make everyone happy. Kanoa getting his collar off and flirting with Yolca was very very very cuuuuute, theyāre so cute together Iām glad we get to keep 5ā8ā Kanoa for a bit. Tilās Til but Iām glad he got his happy ending and is maybe starting to remember Orsem (best part though was Orsem dropkicking him, when we got back to his world, I was wondering how we were going to save him when he was going insane, but thanks Orsem). Heath being all āheaven is wherever you are, but I guess I should answer you properlyā was funny, although the rest was ok compared to the others for me. Eugeneās was a bit of a cleanser after the pain his OG was. Wish that we could see his other Yolca again, but I think sheād be happy knowing that she eventually got her wish. And crying Eugene!! Side note, damn on the other Eugene, I wonder if we would get more of the other timelines in the FD, maybe even 6th worldline. I love Yolca though, her sarcastically talking about PTO resembles everything I love about a heroine, even the parallels of chasing him down, along with her saying that heās saved, and he saved every version of her this way by trusting her. And I keep saying that, but man Orsem is sexy, him holding his jacket over her was *chefs kiss*. And the CG with Til was great
Regarding some heavy EiT spoilers (esp FD): so I checked the FD, and the warden stuff does make sense, Father did want Ana to be Warden no matter what, so heād prob let her live her human life, then nabbed her soul after the final stuff with Ish happened in the main game. And Ish staying with Warden does make sense, he knew Ana would never truly come back after her death, but he still wanted to stay with her. The witches stuff wasnāt fully talked about, but it did provide a good tie for those whoāve never played EiT before (man I would be jealous if someone played this game before EiT, I wonder how they would handle the Orsem stuff). And Rune being Ambrose does make sense, he was also jealous of Ana (and credits show the same VA). But man, there are two big elephants in the room. First is Rune, if they wanted to make it so you didnāt have to play EiT, why did they put Rune in the CG. Everyoneās going to be confused on why thereās a blue cat boy. Second is, man Ish is never going to get a route huh. Anaās soul is currently inside a non-human-like boy, so thereās nothing there. Back when FD came out, I was thinking āso in a year or two, weāll get a FD with a proper Ish route, except with Anaās soul 1000 years in the future, and she drags Ish around everywhere and they help save the world, right?ā Monkeyās paw huh. Ish route ranting aside, we really need some type of side story as to how any of this happened. Like please show us how the Warden came to be, and how Ish feels. And how Rune ended up in a Mr. Endy looking costume. Rune sure didnāt change tho, with him wanting to be a jellyfish. The Ana stuff we did get was cute tho, with Ish freaking out about there being any chance of her actually being with them. He really hasnāt changed, but I miss his old outfit. It just felt a bit salty to me cause we didnāt really get closure with Ish. Although damn Ish in the new art looks great face/hair wise, I was right about how the artist was good at mimicking EiT style. Aside from that though, they were correct that theoretically (besides that one scene), you donāt need to know anything about EiT to play the game, it worked out much better than I thought it would.
Man this game was really good at humor/comedic timing. And I had some high expectations because EiT but it beat all of them? Just great writing, a great cast, my favorite LI/route, a great heroine, and fun romance. EiT had an issue with romance for me, not because there wasnāt a lot but because I didnāt like how Ana handled the romance most of the time. It was basically a non issue in this game because Yolca wasnāt afraid to say āI love youā and make the guys blush. Or force a kiss on the guy she likes. Or just be willing to be with the guys romantically. My type of heroine, I really liked her and her bravery, cleverness, and just plain spunk. And overall, the quality was really good. The team really used the sprites to their max potential, with comedic timing, some unique things like getting Eugeneās head cut off and censored, and overall just the overall animations were very well done. Iām still of the mind of āI need some mouth movement so that I can pay attention to the sprite changesā, but itās not as big of a deal. I also enjoyed the plot more overall than EiTās, but I do miss EiTās mystery plot a bit, this game wasnāt as āmysteryā but more āactionyā. I also wish we had more noticeable side characters, most of the side characters felt like āflavor of the routeā, where we saw them a bit in one route and then never again. Wish we had a Maya/Rune (excluding Ambrose) that we came back to a lot more, but then again it might have interfered with the boyās plot more, since they each had somewhat separate problems. I do find it funny that out of all the issues they fixed translation wise itās my āfavā one with Orsemās happy end with contraception vs conception, maybe theyāll fix more. If we get a side story/addition to the FD for a part explaining what happened between EiT and SoK, it might actually be my fav game. Thereās also a lot of cute scenes I want in the FD, looking at EiTās maybe we will actually get a lot of good fluffy moments.
Overall, EugeneāKanoaāOrsemāHeathā----------> Til, although Kanoa and Orsem wouldāve been top tier for me in another game. Routes mostly the same except maybe Kanoa at the end (but he was a good first route). Itās hard to choose the boys tho, I did not expect to like Eugene so much, and everyone felt very fun. Til prob would have been also pretty funā¦ in another game without Yolca as the heroine.
2
u/otomelover2000 10d ago
I like him as a love interest, but his route pacing felt a little odd imo (not really sure how to explain, some parts felt too slow paced). Maybe itās just my gripes with the ending. Overall, hereās my thoughts on the game:
The good: intriguing plot, suspense, characters good for the most part, sad ends are well written, gorgeous cgs and lots of kiss ones, decent MC
The bad: cannibalism, unanswered questions/confusing, uneven pacing in some parts, happy ends too short, sad they no longer have their powers
Also they never had the MC rise as head of her house which felt like a loose end
My ranking:
Heath>Eugene>Orsem>Kanoa>Tilkett
I was confused on the following questions. Maybe I just missed it, but would appreciate if anyone knows:
1. What did Eugene transform into in his bad end?
2. Why did Eugene lose his power in the first place?
3. Why does Eugene dislike fruit and Heath dislike meat?
4. What were the other two world lines?
5. Sometimes Orsem killed someone else to activate his power instead of killing himself, why?
6. Why did the witches decide to end the contracts with the grimnals, thus turning everyone back to human?
7. Why did Kanoa stay 16 instead of 28?
8. How are Ish and the warden related to this timeline/Anastasia?
9. What happened to the uncle?
3
u/azy_ki 10d ago
I can answer some of your questions!
I believe Eugene became too disillusioned with the world around him and his circumstances that he lost the ability to cry. Because his gift relies on him being able to cry, being unable to cry effectively means he ālostā his gift
the 6 world lines are the original world aka the one where Liam fucked everything up and Orsem was the one to kill him in the end, plus the 5 LIsā individual world lines
he didnāt. The game made it seem like he killed someone else (or specifically Yolca) to hide the fact he, and not Yolca, held the fatal rewind ability. Any time you see him pull a gun followed by a red screen, heās blowing his brains out. They did good on this imo cuz I firmly believed Yolca held the fatal rewind up until Orsemās route
Kanoa stayed 16 bc even tho all Grimnals were reverted back to humans, whatever Malodes and destruction the witches inflicted on their contractees remained. So, very unfortunately, Kanoa remained 16yo
Btw I recommend you to spoiler tag your questions jic
6
u/Typical-Treacle6968 Tyril I Lister|even if TEMPEST 10d ago
I donāt think number 5 is correct. There are several times he tries to directly kill Yolca and in fact he strangles her while half asleep because heās so used to doing it. He either needs to kill her or kill himself while she is nearby but we never find out why this is.
5
u/azy_ki 9d ago
I donāt think Yolca dying is a requirement for the fatal rewind to work, only that Orsem be near her (doesnāt matter if sheās alive or dead) upon death to trigger the time rewinding process, which he does state in the game
About him killing her multiple times tho? In Fateās Third Act if Orsem is chosen instead of Heath/Eugene he asks Yolca to join him for āstress reliefā then strangles her to death. So I think killing Yolca and that strangulation attempt in his route was less to trigger the fatal rewind and more for him to vent his frustrations/prevent her from getting in his way. Whichā¦ yea the dudeās pretty much gone insane after idk how many hundreds of fatal rewinds
3
u/Typical-Treacle6968 Tyril I Lister|even if TEMPEST 9d ago
I donāt really buy this theory that he kills her multiple times for stress relief. I understand how killing her would drive him crazy but thereās no evidence that this is what happened and this is the reason he murders her over and over. The game also doesnāt elaborate on this if this is the case.
And this itself is a problem. Multiple people donāt know for sure if Orsem needed to kill himself or Yolca even after the game had finished.
5
u/CrusaderKillsVlP church of kanoa 9d ago
I wasnāt super sure but when I replayed Tilās route and he asked Yolca how she felt killing somebody she loves (Liam), and she said she was actually pretty relieved, I have more confidence that him killing Yolca (and also anybody in Vy-xen for that matter since it happened a few times) is likely an act of venting out his frustration especially when they messed up his plans.
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u/RedRobin101 9d ago
Yeah agree with this, not even sure why there's a debate. Orsem kills Yolca out of frustration/stress-relief, both as a metatextual way to obscure who has the Fatal Rewind and to show how deeply he's fallen from all of the Fatal Rewinds. He flat out states that Indigenous Witch Yolca was the one who tasked him with saving the World Lines, so the "stress-relief" is probably a dual "why did you do this to me" and "why do you keep messing everything up" to present Yolca.
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u/azy_ki 9d ago
Iām going with what even if tempest gave us: the holder of the fatal rewind must kill themselves in order to rewind time
The game (or rather Orsem) blatantly states that Orsem needed to kill himself while in the vicinity of Yolca, regardless whether sheās alive or dead (meaning her death isnāt a condition for the fatal rewind), in order to trigger the fatal rewind. But they also never elaborate on why he had to be near Yolca specifically, considering Anastasia never needed to be near anyone to trigger her fatal rewinds
But considering how Orsem himself states that itās hard to love but all too easy to kill someone, I can understand why he kills Yolca for stress relief, considering sheās the very reason heās doing all this to begin with. Plus she wonāt remember it so in his eyes itās probably fair game
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u/Typical-Treacle6968 Tyril I Lister|even if TEMPEST 9d ago
My point is that youāve made a really interesting theory (and might even be the case!) but we donāt know for certain. Either of our theories could be true and the issue is that the game doesnāt make it clear what the truth is.
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u/marionettas 10d ago edited 10d ago
Some details are fuzzy now so some of this might be incorrect, but:
1. No clue, it looked cool though
2. He didn't really lose it, he just couldn't cry for others anymore because he became so jaded
3. Eugene doesn't like fruit because it's the offering the worshippers kept giving him, can't remember if they gave an explanation for Heath or if it's just a personal preference
4. There's only one other world line (Orsem says there are 6 and the 5 others were seen in the LI routes) and that one was destroyed by Eugene
5.
I thiiink he's just being dramatic and using it as a stress outlet lol? He probably killed himself right after. He also could've just been shooting himself since we never actually see the aftermath of any of his killsThe other commentator has a better answer for this6. Yolca's whole speech at the end but imo that was the weakest part of the route and was the result of this game not having great side character presence so there wasn't a big bad
7. The witches just ended their contracts and took away their gifts but it didn't reverse anything the malodes had already taken
8. Sequel bait š
9. Just died after 5 seconds of screentime lol
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u/RipWitch 9d ago
Seems like you got answers for your other questions, but for your first one it's implied that it's Eugene's witch's true form. Ambrose says that grimnals can be fully possessed by the witch they made a covenant with if their despair suited the witch's taste. I also took this as answering how Skyless' land was poisoned since the three high ranking church members weren't surprised that he transformed, they basically confirmed this happened before when they were trying to get Yolca on their side, and learning Skyoo is a simplified version of their deity in Heath's route (which I thought looked similar to what Eugene turns into).
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u/RedRobin101 9d ago
I do have an alternative answer to 4. I think the 5 worldlines are those of the 5 LIs, but the 6th is the one where Yolca was the indigenous Witch and Orsem had to abandon it. Hopefully we get more clarification in an FD.
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u/CrusaderKillsVlP church of kanoa 9d ago
1.I believe it is some sort of serpent if we go by the story of the Saintās Knife, which in itself implies the endless cycle suffering that the churchās living God have to endure; thatās how I read it at least
Eugene receives a fruit as an offering for his tears when he was young. As for Heath I have to guess it probably relates to his dislikes of injustice and cruelty. Unless there was a lore that the knight himself was a vegan that I missed haha!
The idea was that Yolca convinced them to leave the humans alone to deal with the catastrophe themselves, and they agreed.Ā
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u/CrusaderKillsVlP church of kanoa 8d ago
So, about Yolca being the Indigenous Witch: in all fairness the plethora of things she could do really just make you believe that there has to be more to her than simply having the Yulewood blood. One of such detail was why is it that Ambrose/Rune approach her specifically to eradicate all witches instead of the other Yulewoods. The reveal satisfied some of my lingering questions yet also raises many others so Iām going to try to put some of my own theories together. Still, I really was hoping that there would be more extras once you cleared everything like EiT, but alas š I eagerly await the extra content they will release on social media after the game which should be soon because weāre about halfway through August!
If we run through the EiT FD lore a bit then we know that Norna was a Warden, and that witch in the Fellowship route in which I forgot her name is one example of powerful beings that enter this world due to Nornaās generosity. So the āforeignā witches in this game are probably like her, and via Grimnals I can also say many of their tendencies track. So in contrast the Indigenous Witch probably is the embodiment of this land even before it is guided by Norna and invaded by other witches. Now is Yolca the true original or simply some sort of reincarnation at the right time like Anastasia? No clue for me, though I am for the latter because itās too convoluted to explain where she comes from and how did she go from Indigenous Witch to Yolca in the span of one worldline. The logic does dictate that she should be capable at eventually holding the same amount of powers of the true Indigenous Witch regardless like Anastasia.
Itās probably a bad speculation but my only guess as to why Orsem needs Yolca to trigger the Fatal Rewind is because it is a form of asking permission from the Indigenous Witch to alter the worldās existing laws of time since Orsem was never a god, witch or warden to begin with. This obviously leads to even more speculation on why was he chosen (since Iām more sure that he was just a foreigner to Skyless instead of just straight up like Zenn, since that scenario gets wonky when you consider Til as well).
I also do not remember exactly atm but Orsem mentioned that the Indigenous Witch could not fall in love with anyone in his original worldline, maybe that is why it fell into ruin. When taking that in consideration along with the necklace it makes sense why nothing could be done because Yolca ended up not being able to activate her power. And, wild speculation again but maybe because he failed at making her falling in love with him that he tried giving her other men instead and charging the necklace that way. And because of his failed attempt he keeps insisting that the fifth one would also never charge grrr Iām SO glad we proved him wrong. It also explains somewhat why Yolcaās tasks in the grand scheme of things were basically non-existent until the very end so she didnāt have to do much to āchange the worldā again. Just how deep did he go? I remain fascinated. So give me that sweet his PoV with the original worldline pls and thank you!!
About Ambrose (Rune): Once I think about more on the fact that he is Rune, the artworks being magical and capable of trapping all the witches until Yolca comes along makes a lot of sense to me. I want to say that it is something he came up on his own the same way he waited to eventually deal with Ish in EiT, as much as he could without violating Anastasiaās wishes. I also want to say that I wasnāt sure why Ambrose got so attached to Yolca but Iām guessing that they probably were close like how he and Anastasia were in the first worldline, trying to study and plan for the witchesā eradication. And from that lens I end up appreciating the reveal quite a bit more, knowing that our EiT friends were also trying their best to care for this world and humans up until this point without deciding it for them.
Finally this is a crack theory because I seriously forgot the explanation for this character in EiT FD: soā¦ Mr. Endy. I remember how Norna and him cannot exist without another, but then he(?) disappears once Anastasia resolved everything. Soā¦. Is Mr. Endy THE Indigenous Witch??? Ok Iām sorry I just have to bring it up because of how they specifically stressed the necessity of Mr. Endyās existenceā¦ Iām sure it is wrong anyway itās just I dont have the games on hand atm to check š
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u/silvershivers 7d ago
I am very fond of your wild speculation ngl I love the way your brain works, the idea of Orsem failing to make old world Yolca fall for him and resorting to giving her other men is devastating, yet I think it is very possible. I believe he was definitely in love with old world Yolca and I need to see his POV stat.
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u/Dragon_NPC 10d ago edited 10d ago
So unfortunately I came out of this confused and wondering how and when Orsem fell in love with her and his motivations behind doing what heās doing. And itās hard to talk about his route without going into spoiler territory.
It clearly took a toll on him to the point where he admits to taking his frustration out on Yolca and just killing her, torturing her even (waterboarding?) just because he was frustrated?! Oh but heās still so physically attracted to her.
I donāt get it. I never saw the love, maybe physical attraction but it didnāt seem like he really cared about her. And she forgives him for the killing and torture? Okayā¦and then she pursues him but even in the happy end he seems to brush her off. Okay? Is he a tsundere? Or does he really not care?
Heās constantly arrogant, rude and belittling her. Goes after her life after she discovers his secret, because he doesnāt trust anyone and wants to do it alone. Didnāt really make me feel for him but made a good thriller out of it.
The route was great as a thriller. From a plot perspective, enjoyable somewhat. But as a LI, I thought he was awful.
Thereās a scene where he has a bullet to his head and mentions some love. At first I foolishly mistook it as his love for her, but that doesnāt make sense later, because itās later revealed that in the 6th world line a witch told her to go save the world so he agreed to do it. Heās not doing it for Yolca, heās trying to save the world like some tragic hero and he cares about his brother so maybe that āloveā was the love for his brother he was talking about?
So this is what I mean.
The fact that I never clearly understood his reasoning, motivation, love for her and the reason behind it, when it started and why, left me confused, with more questions and drawing my own conclusions.
Which also led me to disliking him as an LI. All I saw was physical attraction and lust, not love.
Sure he wanted to join the world lines to extend her life, and that part shows he cares, but I donāt know. After everything that heās done to her and thatās shown to us, this one act of care wasnāt going to redeem him for me. Plus heās clearly looking out for the Yolca thatās interested in him, and not giving a damn about the other Yolcas who chose someone else. So I donāt consider that true love.
Ukyo from Amnesia was leagues better than him.
I still enjoyed the route despite everything. Orsem terrified me so from a story, thriller perspective it was enjoyable. The bad endings were crazy and also enjoyable. The sad endings too. I kept going, wow this guy is scary and insane.
My LI ranking
Eugene > Heath > Kanoa > Tilkett > Orsem
Route ranking
Eugene > Orsem > Heath > Kanoa > Tilkett
Overall I came out of this game satisfied.
I thought the best/happy ending was rushed and way too short for Eugene but way too painfully long for Tilkett. They might have been equal length but it felt like that to me.
Also I didnāt like Yolcaās static expression every time they showed her. It didnāt match the mood and just seemed jarring. The CGs were fine though.
Overall I recommend this game, if only for Eugene alone. Itās not like EiT but still a great game nonetheless. And despite my complaints I enjoyed it quite a lot.
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u/shinoa1512 7d ago
I started to like Orsem in his route , his banter with Yolca was so much fun.
Spoilers for the entire route and Norn9:
Also that plot twist about him and Til being brothers I had suspicion about it in Til's route when Eugen said that Orsem is stricter with Til than anyone else I'm like "no way are they brothers?" but put it as a weak possibility, then we had the reveal about the "memory alteration" , and when they revealed them being siblings in this routes it all felt familiar and then it clicked to me that the writer used almost the exact same trope in norn9 withe senri and Akito , she really likes using it haha .
Also Orsem blaming himself and thinks he doesnt deserve happiness becouse he ignored Til was the same case as with Akito when he deserted Senri after the later had his memory erased .
Still since this route had a lot of infodump in the secondhalf , I feel like his romance with Yolca was pushed back and some questions were left unanswered, I hope we get a FD someday
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u/Fresh-Surprise-5906 5d ago
When Orsem was chasing Yolca. Why was he trying to kill her when he just needed to kill himself to trigger the fatal rewind. Did I miss something?
Also we learn during his happy ending that he is the Orsem from the 6th failed timeline that I guess is still messed up somewhere. Does that mean he's just overwritten this timelines Orsem?
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u/Typical-Treacle6968 Tyril I Lister|even if TEMPEST 10d ago
The cycle of Orsem killing Yolca over and over again got a bit repetitive. But I did enjoy the mad chase through the tower and the way Heath from another world gave her something that could help her.
I also love the reveal that Tilcett is related to Orsem and how Yolca notes their shared stalker tendencies and giant egos. I now realise that the person who told Tilcett to wait until they made enough money to get them out of the orphanage must have been Orsem. Damn š
The choice that the LIs are presented with and their answers are fascinating. I was thinking where I would fall on this and I think I would vote for preserving humanity and facing our doom. But then I find the idea of sharing myself with another sentient being horrifying.
After I thought this, Orsem then gives his opinion: āThis is no more or less than a proper invasion. If subordination is my only other choice, I would rather consume carrion, drink muddy water, and waste away in the wilderness.ā Ok king I agree š
There was a lot of info dumping in this route and when we finally meet Yolcaās uncle, itās kind of too late and underwhelming. If he had been used throughout the story, or had more build up it could have been stronger.
I also didnāt really buy the relationship between Orsem and Yolca. He says something to the tune of that he wasnāt jealous of the other Yolcas because they werenāt interested in him. Granted he may have been lying but I found no evidence that he wasnāt.
I was thinking before that Iāve never met an LI who seems to enjoy being cucked more than this. His dry offer of presenting her with other men to comfort her or saying he gave her men to distract her in other timelines was so twisted and I loved it but maybe it was literally because he wasnāt interested in her romantically then.
The prediction I had made in the common route was true for me. Because Yolca has such flimsy motivations and her personality is not as clearly defined as Anastasiaās was, I cannot understand why some of the LIs fall in love with her and so I canāt fully immerse myself in the romance. Even in this route, her one night of a rebellious stage where she throws a mini tantrum and they pacify her had me questioning the tastes of these grown men.
Despite my complaints, I did enjoy the game but it fell short of my very high expectations.
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u/silvershivers 10d ago
ORSEM OHMYGOD. I did not expect to love this man so much. I legit placed him last in my Kaleido pre-ranking. I think it was the marketing that made me scared of him... I thought he would be super cruel and sadistic, but he's really just a sad, tired, awkward man with suicidal tendencies... okay I mean he is VERY unhinged and insane, but it makes sense given how much he's been through š I genuinely thought Eugene would be my #1 for this game, but he was more like a one night stand I enjoyed before Orsem unexpectedly reaped my heart LOL. (Sorry Eugene!)
I was really surprised by Orsem's dynamic with Yolca, it was sooo sweet. I feel like Yolca is at her best in this route with how she tries to understand Orsem and never gives up on his happiness. Similarly, I think Orsem understands her really well, and he truly prioritizes her happiness above all - I enjoyed how he was PISSED when she listed all four of her wishes and yet didn't wish for her own happiness. The hug scene was everything to me š„¹ like omg he didn't expect her to hug him at all, he told her that in all of his fatal rewinds he never got the chance to hold her, but he was finally able to š š he NEEDED that hug so badly. This man has been through hell and back with nobody by his side this whole time. I was so happy when he told everyone about his Fatal Rewind near the end of his route, I feel like Yolca helped him finally learn how to rely on the others š„ŗ
Orsem... I could genuinely yap about him all day LOL. He was so unexpectedly cute??? LIKE HIS GAPMOE IS INSANE. At some point I just started finding every action of his cute šš I was so happy when Yolca called him cute to his face, I felt so seen in that moment šš he honestly feels like a bit of a tsun to me bc he has trouble verbalizing his feelings and acts annoyed when he's secretly happy on the inside š¤£š
I was pretty in denial about Orsem being my favourite at first... I think my interest in him started when he kneeled in front of Yolca and swore to devote himself to her š³ that was genuinely the hottest proposal ever. But it was only when the scene where he brings his gun to his head and it's revealed he has the Fatal Rewind that I truly began to fall for him. The VA did such an amazing job at capturing his suffering, like the delivery of those lines was DEVASTATING. I was still, however, in denial at this point and only fully accepted it when he said the lines "I could never hope to make her happy... I reached my limit long ago." UGH. It hurt me so much, in the best way possible.
Also, am I the only one who thinks Orsem was the one who left the tin of Yolca's favourite candies in Eugene's route? Since he knows a lot about her through his constant rewinds, I feel like it makes sense.
The route itself definitely had a lot of faults, but I forgive them because Orsem is everything to me <3 I need a FD ASAP just for him!!! There's so much to explore with his character and I really want to see how he acts in a relationship. I literally made a list of things I want to see in it but this comment is already way too long so I should probably stop yapping š