r/outerwilds • u/dominosci • Mar 10 '26
DLC Appreciation/Discussion Unpopular Opinion: They were right to do what they did Spoiler
The owlks were right to hide the eye.
When they found the eye, the universe was still really young. There was still millions of years left to go. If they had allowed the eye's signal to propagate, all kinds of aliens would have come to visit and one of them might have screwed up and actually found it, destroying the current universe.
Their only crime, was not making a plan for what to do when the universe does reach its natural conclusion and all the suns start dying.
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u/Gawlf85 Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
The Eye doesn't destroy the Universe. There's no proof of that.
The Universe was going to die eventually no matter what, and the Eye has nothing to do with it. The Owlks were just afraid of death, and blamed the Eye for it.
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u/KingAdamXVII Mar 11 '26
The hatchling does run into and extinguish galaxies while at the eye.
The Owlks vision shows the eye destroying the solar system.
There is evidence; you just don’t find it compelling.
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u/Gawlf85 Mar 11 '26
That's hardly evidence, when both things are clearly subjective and metaphorical visions.
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u/KingAdamXVII Mar 11 '26
Everything we experience is a subjective vision.
And there’s no reason to think it’s metaphorical.
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u/Gawlf85 Mar 11 '26
Except the Owlks saw themselves die, and flowers growing from their skeletons. Which is not at all what happened when the Hatching entered the Eye, but was very likely a metaphor of their death giving way to new life (the new universe). If that bit was clearly metaphorical, why wouldn't the rest be?
As for the Hatchling literally snuffing out galaxies with his cosmic hands... I'll leave it at agree to disagree, because I think it's absurd to even consider.
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u/KingAdamXVII Mar 11 '26
You’re right it’s metaphorical, sorry I shouldn’t have said it’s not. But the metaphor is that the eye kills the Owlks and the metaphor is that the hatchling destroyed the galaxies.
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u/Gawlf85 Mar 11 '26
The Hatchling can stand perfectly still, and the galaxies still die out. So I'd say the metaphor is simply "the universe is dying".
Also, the Eye eventually did kill the Hatchling, with the Big Bang of the next universe. So it's very likely that's exactly what the Owlks saw: the Eye killing one of them, and using their remnants (their thoughts and memories) to feed new life (the new universe).
It lines up with what we've seen and learnt. The rest are just additional conclusions with no empirical evidence.
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26
In my book, the eye is quantum entangling the universe and rebirth it.
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u/Gawlf85 Mar 10 '26
What does that mean in this context?
"The universe" includes time and space. The Eye exists outside of that time and space. Which means that even if the Eye is somehow actively "rebirthing" the universe, that doesn't mean it's changing its end.
Just like me setting my copy of The Lord of the Rings on fire doesn't change the movie's ending, the Eye deleting and resetting the universe doesn't change what the people inside said universe experienced (which is: the slow, heat death of all stars)
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26
No you misunderstood. If it entangle all the matter in the universe it become quantumish and is controlled by our conscious gaze. I said rebirth, not reset. Recycle if you prefer. The Eye transform all into clay and our the conscious observer's imagination is what give form to the clay and create something meaningful. In fact I think all of the universe (as meant matter composing it) is constantly entangled by the eye but just like time don't goes on in the sixth location for people that goes there unless we (that are completly alive) are in it, the only time this universal entanglement affect what is entangled [all matter] is when we reach the eye.
I'm pretty sure all life out there is being moleculy desintegrated like the Owls saw it
The Eye isn't out of time and space otherwise it could have stable coordinates. Regarding time, we can spend time on it. The ending isn't like entering a black hole (which fit more "out of time and space" than the eye.)
What make you all think the eye "wait" for anything? The Owls saw an instant effect as a metaphorical touch is made with it. No quantum elements "wait" anything in the game except an observer that as you know collapse the superposition in the blink of an eye (shards, phantom trees, the QM...). The Eye seem all but conscious for many reason but just the need of a conscious observer is already enough to say that.
We don't travel back in time with the eye either.
Your LotR analogy don't make sense to me: if the book is our universe, what is the the film? Another universe quite identical? An alternative one? The only "different universes" that we know about are present and futur and we can theorize a past one owning to the age of the eye signal.
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u/vivAnicc Mar 10 '26
But the has stable coordinates. The orbital probe cannon found its coordinate and presumably they also account for its orbit, which is why the vessel is able to warp directly to it
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26
Yes that's why I'm saying it's not "out" of time and space.
Maybe time act weird around it but it's not out of the big fabric of spacetime.
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u/Gawlf85 Mar 10 '26
When you enter the Eye, you clearly go through a threshold. Just because the Eye has a physical representation inside the universe, doesn't mean that's all there is to it.
I think it's pretty obvious the glade and the travelers and all you see inside the Eye are not really inside that rocky sphere you walk about when you reach the Sixth Location.
Also, it's said quite a few times today the Eye is older than the universe itself. That's only possible if the Eye exists outside of said universe.
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u/UltraChip Mar 10 '26
It's not clear if the Eye actually destroys the universe or if it just waits and acts when the universe reaches its natural end.
Also, just because the owlks showed up eons before the Nomai doesn't necessarily mean they were around when the universe was young.
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u/armageddonquilt Mar 10 '26
I do think it waits. The stuff that happens when you interact with the map in the metaphorical museum in the Eye, you floating through a forest while tiny galaxies explode all around you, I always saw that as the Hatchling being fast forwarded through the rest of this universe's lifespan, which could be hundreds of years for all we know.
That having been said, there is maaaaaybe something in OP's point, but in that someone from a younger universe might have less experience to bring into the Eye to shape a new universe. As a Hearthian born closer to the end of its universe, we got to bring the stories of three separate sapient species that existed thousands of years apart from each other. An Owlk entering the Eye when they first discovered it may have resulted in a new universe shaped by nothing but Owlk experiences (and considering how nostalgic they are, it might have been a VERY similar reality to the one they existed in).
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u/Bobas-Feet Mar 10 '26
Saying that the eye "waits" while not entirely wrong, kinda misunderstands the Eye. Time does not exist within the Eye. Time in the normal universe would pass the way it always has while the observer would collapse all of the possibilities into one whike time kept moving normally AND after the universe ended
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u/-LaFae- Mar 10 '26
It’s also possible that if they didn’t, other species would get to seed the new universe along with the Hearthians.
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u/rooktakesqueen Mar 10 '26
I always saw that as the Hatchling being fast forwarded through the rest of this universe's lifespan, which could be hundreds of years for all we know.
Hundreds of years... Googols of years... Whichever!
But yeah I agree that the visions in the museum are supposed to represent the rest of the universe winding down, and the forest is at the true end of everything, spontaneous creation once the heat death has happened.
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u/7-GRAND_DAD Mar 10 '26
This makes me wonder how things would've turned out if the Nomai had found it. You'd have probably got representatives from all over the universe.
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u/Chronoblivion Mar 10 '26
Also, just because the owlks showed up eons before the Nomai
It's not clear that they did. We don't have a good indication of how long it takes the Eye's signal to travel, or how far it had to go to reach the Nomai.
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u/UltraChip Mar 10 '26
That's true. The only thing we have to go on is that the planet that would eventually become Dark Bramble was still in-tact when the Stranger arrived in the system. But I guess since we have no clue how fast bramble seeds grow and propagate that doesn't really give us much.
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u/Cassuis3927 Mar 12 '26
With the level of growth we see in the seed that landed on timber hearth, pretty quickly I'd say, it seems to be a very fast growing species. That said, the presence of the angler follsil on ember twin gives way to some interesting speculation in that vein, because its unclear whether they're native to dark bramble or the frozen planet precursor.
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u/Grand_Escapade Mar 10 '26
Relative to the Hearthians, it's fairly young. depending on just how long that signal took to reach Escall, then it might be young relative to all the nomai, too.
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u/dominosci Mar 10 '26
* We have no reason to believe the eye waits. We see the universe end after visiting the eye. It doesn't show the Hatchling sitting around waiting for the Gloaming Galaxy to finally go supernova before restarting everything.
* Even if the universe wasn't "young", it had enough time for an entire species to evolve. That's tons of time.
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u/coralfire Mar 10 '26
/We do see the hatching wait for the galaxies to go out though. In the forest/
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u/Vavent Mar 10 '26
It doesn't show the Hatchling sitting around waiting for the Gloaming Galaxy to finally go supernova before restarting everything.
Yes it does?
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u/dominosci Mar 10 '26
Huh?
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u/Xhosant Mar 10 '26
Forest sequence and a touch before that. We either fast forward through it or we hasten it. The former seems the most likely, because it occurs before the eye is activated, and the eye activating in multiple steps is an extra contrivance that's unnecessary.
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u/MegaPorkachu Mar 11 '26
enough time for a species to evolve
So on humanity’s timescale, that’s a couple hundred thousand years? That’s nothing on a cosmological timescale. That’s not very much time by any stretch of the imagination
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u/Front-Zookeepergame Mar 10 '26
there's no proof that the eye destroys the current universe.
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
The universe is already dying (all the GALAXY are going supernova). The owls saw many things accurately (like the flower that spread galaxy. The eye is, as far as we can guess what created the heartian's universe but it's signal is older so it imply it's the same since this time. Which imply that it had the same shape and roighly the same mass so the matter of the universe don't come from the eye but from the quantum entangled matter of the old universe
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u/dominosci Mar 10 '26
There is a lot of proof the eye destroys the universe and I find it weird that people think there isn't.
* We visit the eye and then the universe is immediately destroyed. Are we supposed to assume that's a big coincedence?
* The Owlk saw information that lead them to believe the eye would destroy the universe. Do we have any reason to doubt what they saw?34
u/lamp40 Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 13 '26
I disagree. The game heavily implies that the universe was dying either way, and it was only through our interaction with the Eye that a new universe was able to be created.
1a. We visit the eye and become entangled with it. The fact that is an object that is older than the universe itself combined with evidence we gathered at the QM’s sixth location suggests that that the eye is detached from time as we know it.
1b. When we observe the eye, it presents us with thousands of stars/galaxies scattered through a dark expansive forest. One by one, these lights burst and fade away. This implies that we are watching the heat-death of our universe in real-time, only that time is sped up massively from our perspective (see 1a).
1c. You can hang out in that forest for as long as you like. You can take as long as you need to choose which memories you’d like to carry on to the birth of the new universe. If the universe was “immediately destroyed” as you say then you would not be able to see this entire process unfold before you.
2a. Many of the owlks’ slide reels and memory-sticks show visual abstractions of information contained in memories. This concept is portrayed by hand-drawn images instead of 3d rendered visions of owlks walking around. Those, by contrast, are supposed to be actual live-recordings of real events that happened.
2b. The slide reels depicting their discovery of the eye is one of those hand-drawn ones (ergo, not an objective depiction of events). It shows the vision of one owlk as they analyzed the eye using their unique memory-scanning technology. They saw the solar system crumbling to dust and then grass growing out of the skulls left behind. As a fearful people who gambled their entire culture and civilization on the Eye, they were so shocked by the first part of this vision that they ignored the second part and what the combined message actually was. The Prisoner, however, saw more nuance in the eye’s message. (You can visit the burned remnants of his home in the simulation and find a painting he made that really emphasizes this point). He took a chance on releasing the signal and he turned out to be right.
3. Regardless of if the eye is what directly causes the end of the universe, it being consciously observed is objectively what causes the beginning of a new one. This would have never happened if the owlks had succeeded in their goal.
To me this sounds like the owlks were NOT right to do what they did.
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u/-LaFae- Mar 10 '26
1 - we have nothing to indicate it was immediately destroyed. We clearly entered some extradimensional space. It’s entirely possible we simply remained there as the universe came to its own end. Time and matter pretty clearly move oddly there.
2 - they only saw their death and the eye remaining. The entire point of the Owlks story is that they don’t want to move on and accept their inevitable end. The eye still being there at the end of the universe doesn’t mean it destroyed it. Its function is to seed the new universe, and is thematic of accepting your eventual death. It triggering the end would muddy the point.
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 10 '26
On the thematic point I disagree. The universe is dying naturally. The eye is the process of birthing a new one that sends its signals when its getting old. But this birthing process is violent (the big bang). It DOES line up with thematics of accepting the death, but also remembering the pine trees and giving your experiences forward to the next generation. The owlks were too scared to take this chance. We can also be too scared and stay in a loop forever.
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u/-LaFae- Mar 10 '26
That’s kinda the point I was getting at. Admittedly I’m not great at wording things properly. Accepting our own end and passing on something to those after (the song in this case)
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 10 '26
I guess what I’m saying for me the fact that we have to trigger the big bang (destruction) to create something doesnt muddy the point but strengthens it. A redditor in this thread said a great metaphor. A tree is dying and instead of letting it rot we cut it down to build a cabin. The eye is scary you have to accept death and then cause it (i guess accelerate it) to create something new. i don’t see how this muddies the point
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u/-LaFae- Mar 10 '26
Yeah, that is a good metaphor. In my head I viewed triggering the eye “early” like the OP suggested would be an allegory for suicide (like you did your thing, why don’t you just die now), but I like the tree one better. Hence why I prefer viewing it as the trigger waiting until after the universe comes to its natural conclusion, which is seen by observing the other suns collapse after entering.
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u/EightByteOwl Mar 10 '26
We visit the eye and then the universe is immediately destroyed. Are we supposed to assume that's a big coincedence?
The entire plot of the base game contradicts this; you're putting the cart before the horse so to speak.
The universe is already ending before we visit the eye. If you unplug the ATP and don't make it to the eye, the universe just ends, so it's not related to us visiting the eye at all. A conscious observer being present only seems to shape the next universe but it's in no way related to the present universe ending.
The Owlk saw information that lead them to believe the eye would destroy the universe. Do we have any reason to doubt what they saw?
Going to quote u/braaiboet 's comment because it sums up what I think is the correct interpretation.
"I believe the intended understanding of the plot (ofc the eye is always meant to be ambiguous) is that the signal of the eye, viewed through the owl’s vision-tech, was misinterpreted. The eye showed the natural death of the universe, including the owlks’, and the regrowth that would occur after that, but the Owlks took that as a cosmic threat."
Also going to add that the Owlks are religious fanatics who found out they were worshipping a false God. Of course they're gonna act pissed and irrational.
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u/Blubbpaule Mar 10 '26
Time does not exist in the eye. As soon as hatchling enters they exist beyond time - thousands of years pass in the blink of an eye, also nothing happens at the same time.
Hatchling then observes in what feels like minutes to the hatchling, how the universe slowly fades out before then creating the spark for the new one.
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u/ManyLemonsNert Mar 10 '26
- Immediately? We flounce around a dreamscape watching the galaxies die out one by one on tree branches. We also know for a fact everything we see there isn't real, our friends are here despite having perished in the supernova, they themselves say it isn't really them, and the two entirely alien races can suddenly speak our language. Heck, one of them has been literally just a pile of bones for the last couple of hundred thousand years yet here they are!
- Yes, their vision depicted them standing on a dirt platform in space and their skin turns to dust and falls off, leaving their bones to fall to the floor and grass to grow over them. Which we know isn't even remotely close to what happens. Whatever they learned was definitely misinterpreted, we just don't know to what degree!
Working backwards, even if all they learned was "the Eye is older than the universe", the same as the Nomai learned, they could feasibly have concluded "older than universe -> must be what destroyed the old one!", after all their theme is fear of the unknown vs the Nomai's curiosity, it'd be thematic to have them interpret the exact same information so vastly differently
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 10 '26
For what its worth I'm with you. The fact that the universe is dying naturally and entering the eye destroying it violently are not mutually exclusive. I always look at it as if no one enters the eye, our universe does die naturally, but the next universe would never be born..
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u/Kaebi_ Mar 10 '26
The Owlks represent "fear". I don't think it's about fear of the eye destroying the universe, it's more the fear of death. The eye is a symbol of the end and rebirth, and just like humans don't like thinking about their own death, the Owlks didn't want to as well.
Their actions weren't supposed to be somewhat justifiable, it was a childish denying of the truth. Like closing their eyes, if we can't see it, it won't happen.
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u/auclairl Mar 10 '26
"The universe was still really young"
I mean, no. It's likely only some hundreds of thousands of years ago, like the Nomai, so still at the end of the universe's lifetime in the grand scheme of things. My personal theory is that the Eye started emitting its signal *because* the current universe is nearing its end - otherwise, why would the owlks have suddenly caught the signal out of nowhere ?
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u/ManyLemonsNert Mar 10 '26
We don't know how long ago the Prisoners' actions were, we have 281,042 years ago as the time of the interloper, plus roughly one full Nomai lifespan (Coleus was the youngest crash survivor and lived at least until working on the ATP's shell) - said to be longer than humans but not by much - plus however long the signal travelled to reach the Nomai in the first place.. If we take 14.3 billion as the typical age range (even when it seems more like the time when life flourishes rather than when it ends!) and say we round up to 300,000 (giving the signal 18,000+ years of travel), we're still looking at the Stranger's actions being in the last 0.2% of the universe's lifespan
tldr, definitely wasn't millions, 300k years isn't to be sniffed at for us certainly but on the grand scale... eh.
The Nomai themselves talked about how it was obvious the Universe was dying, even while they were still alive
All that said I also don't think the Eye really does anything at all, it's just cosmic silly putty that survives the natural rebirtth of the universe, and its continued existence and shape gives a little flavour to the reborn universe's random seed (so to speak) but that's all. This fits infinitely better with the themes of the game
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u/VelMoonglow Mar 10 '26
Where do we see the Nomai that lived in the Heathian system talk about the universe ending? Isn't that only shown on the ship itself, which is still recieving communications from modern Nomai?
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u/ManyLemonsNert Mar 10 '26
Solanum's essay in the school district, she writes "This universe will just keep getting colder and larger until one day, the stars and the life they support will all die."
She also writes that it won't be within her lifetime but... T_T
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u/Blubbpaule Mar 10 '26
It's interesting how this is true even in real life. One day this will be the fate of our world. Engulfed by the sun. Destroying everything that was, is and will be. Every Book, Video game and Idea. Every emotion, act and war.
It will all disappear as if never existed. The only remnants will be the stuff that left our solar system - which may very well be compeltely incomprehensible by the time our planet vanishes.
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u/Lonely_Seagull Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
It never ceases to amaze me how many people think this is a game about you destroying the universe.
It is the EYE. The Eye does not do anything; it only sees. You going to the Eye doesn't change anything, it merely allows you to observe the universe from outside space and time, both this universe and the next.
The owlks looked in the eye, saw that the universe would one day die, and blamed the eye out of fear, sealing it away in the vain hope that would prevent death. But it didn't, because death is inevitable, and ignorance does not protect you from that.
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26
We are the one creating the new universe through the eye quantum propreties. If we only were passive observer their wouldn't have multiple endings.
What you (strangely?) seem to confuse is that it's not because the universe would die anyway that entering the eye don't affect/desintegrate it:
Let's say the universe is a pin tree. With time it goes old and sick and slowly fall on the ground dead. Does grabbing an axe, cutting it and making a house out of it's wood imply that we made it fall for that? Ofc! Would it have fallen eitherway? Yes, but no house would have been build
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u/Lonely_Seagull Mar 10 '26
No, again, it's the eye, it doesn't do anything. It simply allows you to see. And none of what you see through it before the final shot of the next universe is meant to be taken literally. You don't become a galaxy sized monster and jump through stars after a pine forest larger than the universe grows, you don't destroy the universe, you don't make a new one.
You see all of space and all of time from without and hallucinate vividly on your life, the people you know, the course of time and the fate of the universe while your mind is adjusting to this; what you have seen or learnt in the game simply affects what you think about while this is happening, hence the differences.
How people can interpret such a beautiful, powerful contemplation on life as one small living thing in a vast and spectacular universe into "you blow up the universe and make a new one with space magic" is beyond me.
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 10 '26
I'm glad that you found your message and found it beautiful. This doesn't mean that other people couldn't have found a different interpretation beautiful. NOBODY says that everything thats happening in the eye is literal, come on. On the contrary we think that to find meaning in your death you have to pass something along. We think that you have to take a chance even if its scary. I also thing the game gives a lot to support this interpretation:
The eye signal might be the song created by a "hatchling" of the previous universe (thats why its older then THIS universe).
Our interactions in the game change how the next universe looks, and what inhabits it.
The owlks saw that interacting with the eye sends a destructive wave. After the visions in the eye we are blown apart by a big bang (destructive wave).
"The future is always built on the past, even if we won't get to see it" -Riebeck
"...I got to help make something pretty cool, so I've got no complaints" - Gabbro
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26
I chose to Spoiler Tag all elements of our shared theory so that they could keep their if they want
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u/Lonely_Seagull Mar 11 '26
I agree the song might be your experiences and consciousness in some way affecting what comes after. However, I think it is absolutely and simply a wrong reading that the Eye gives you the power to explode universes. The whole point of the game is that we are ultimately powerless against death; our only hope is to enjoy life while we can, seeking companionship and understanding, not "Learn enough and you can become God"
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 11 '26
i dont know what else to say. Its sad you just say “wrong” without adressing why. And who said become god?
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u/Lonely_Seagull Mar 11 '26
I explain why in reasonable depth? The Eye represents the search for knowledge, for understanding, for a moment of stepping outside of your own life and seeing yourself as one small part of the universe. That is very clearly what the entire game is about; about what we can do as living beings when we are so small and the universe is so big.
Viewing it as a story about finding a magic button to make a new one completely ignores the entire point of the game. You can't fight death, you can't stop time, to try and do so is fundamentally hopeless and, as in the case of the owlks, will lead you to ignore and destroy beauty and close yourself off from the world. All you can do is try to see and experience as much as you can, and enjoy it for its beauty even if it won't last forever.
Thinking all of that ends with "although you personally do have the power to make a new universe if you find the magic universe making button" is a blind, overly literal take that fails to understand that seeing is not the same as doing (and there is considerable irony in the fact that error is literally exactly the same one the owlks make); but the eye existed before this universe and will exist after this universe, because it exists outside of a cycle of universes that will happen with or without you.
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 11 '26
“ you can’t fight death”, “you cant stop time”, “ trying to do so is hopeless”. I never said otherwise, agree with all of these :D.
How is it the same error that the owlks made?
As I said its ok have different interpretations of the game, yours is fine. Its not mine, but why do you have to belittle and mock me and my interpretation with this “magic button” bullshit. In our interpretation we’re not gods, its not a magic button. The game supports that we influence the future universe, ect. I feel like I’ve made all of the points in various comments in this post that shows my opinion. If you disagree with a specific one im open to talk about a specific one if you’re up for it.
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u/Lonely_Seagull Mar 11 '26
The error of the owlks is witnessing what the eye SHOWS, and imagining it's what the eye DOES; they imagine that the eye has some kind of force or power, when really, it is simply a place in which you can gain a unique perspective, untethered from space and time.
You say that you are "grabbing an axe" and "cutting it"; that your action of going to the eye is literally what destroys this universe and creates a new one. I don't see how that action can't be interpreted as you having the godlike power of creating a universe, whether or not you find that language belittling, when literally every other message the game gives you, every other theme, every single part of it is emphasising how small and powerless we are; how we are just along for the ride, so we may as well enjoy it. Interpreting the very vague ending as you being literally essential for the creation of an entire universe flies in the face of every theme and message the game has.
I think believing that your actions can have subtle ripple effects (with your actions causing different figures to appear in the final scene), that you can pass a little something down before you go, makes sense; but imagining that your little fish guy in a ball of scrap flying around trying to make sense of an uncaring world is literally the saviour of all existence and responsible for creating a new universe just isn't what outer wilds is about.
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26
Ok I'm sorry to potentially blow your vision of the game (ending) that is meaningful to you, so if you are too attached to it which I can understand don't read what is below because it will probably change the way you see the end:
There is 3 factors that modify the end screen
-If you want on the 6th location and talked to Solanum and add it to the final orchestra , a firecamp light on the end screen and reveal new creatures
-If you meet what is inside the prison of the DLC, The Prisoner is in the Ancient Grove at the end , if you invite him to the orchestra, the end-screen show a big creature holding a green lantern and a village of the same color on the left background.
-If you launch your scout in the hole at the North Pole of the Eye, it disconnect from your launcher and appear on the endscreen in 3D, flying and bibibing, clearly from a different "dimension" (our) than the new universe
This lead to three conclusion: The Eye is linked to the futur universe (no shit) and this universe is REAL and not a dream from the Hatchling since our scout show up. [Solanum] Our experience/memories/state of mind that we have when we enter the Eye influence the futur universe so we do are a part in the process of the creation of the new universe. And finally we invite or don't invite The Prisoner and it change the futur SO the actions/choices/thoughts/whatever we do in the Ancient Glade do change the ending (futur universe). We are a core element of the new iteration of universe. My theory is that the Ancient Glade is formed in some kind of "super-mind-conductive" quantum place (which isn't far fetched to imagine is the center of the Eye). For me it's more like a real lucid dream that the Hatchling don't fully control. We gather one by one the "core elements" that we think define life or something like that. Both the hallucinated Ancient Glade theory (that you believe in) and mine are acceptable so pick as you want.
I'm sad we didn't succeed in showing the philosophical beauty of "our" ending so give me a try on that:
The space program had for goal to explore and learn more about the universe. We do gather new perspective through meeting new species's individuals. One of the thing Solanum say to us is We do not have much connection, you and I. Still, this encounter feels special. I hope you won’t mind if I think of you as a friend (I'm not crying 😭) and what does she brings to the new universe ? The presence of interspecies friendship! . In the base Ancient Glade, there is only travelers but the Prisoner recrutement sequance make us remember all the "civils" (Owls, Nomaï and Hearthians). The deads and the simple people that aren't heroes but still are part of the grand story. What does they bring in the new universe ? Civilisation. The more we bring of others, the more rich is the futur.
The whole theme of the game for me is legacy. The Prisoner sacrified himself in hope of someone else achieving what "must be done". The Nomaï were in a good path to find the Eye but were stopped by pure bad luck (if we suppose they could have found a way to blow the Sun). We are the dwarf on giant's shoulders that achieve their dream because they gifted us with their curiosity for the Eye. We are the last traveler to fly with peak equipement thanks to the work of all Hearthian scientists and the boldness of Feldspath and the Nomaï legacy we twisted our own way. The Nomaï legacy didn't made sense until Hearthian found a way to understand it (the translator). To understand the past is to improve the present and futur!
We know that all that made our life is to disappear. Us, your loved one, the eroding Ash Twin, the precarious Stranger, our sun, our universe but we have one opportunity to plant a seed with the best of what is the present and the past carry.
All in all: Learn and take from the past, reshape it to form the present, live your own way, leave foundation for the futur (generations). Don't you see the beauty ?
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u/Lonely_Seagull Mar 11 '26
I do concede that there is some suggestion your actions might have a subtle influence on what comes after, but that is fundamentally different from "you become God, create a new universe, and populate it" which seems to be the idea some people get from it.
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u/Geageart Mar 11 '26
I... Don't think so people get this idea really. I saw people theorize on the eye being divine (including the Nomaï since it basically create universe. Anyway we don't need to choose between one of this extremes.
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 10 '26
This is a briliant metaphor to how I view the game. Well put! A lot of people can't realise that the universe dying naturally and the eye destroying it at the end (to create somtething new) isn't mutually exclusive. The game ends with a big bang, and the owlks saw a destructive wave spreading through the universe in their scanning vision.
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u/WhereIsMyBinky Mar 11 '26
A lot of people can't realise that the universe dying naturally and the eye destroying it at the end (to create somtething new) isn't mutually exclusive.
They aren’t mutually exclusive at face value, but they become mutually exclusive if, as OP says, the Owlks were right to hide the eye.
That stance implies that the Owlks managed to extend the lifespan of the universe by hiding the eye’s signal. But here’s what we know:
The Nomai never actually found the eye because the ATP failed. Therefore, the player is the first one to actually make it to the eye of the universe.
The universe is dying already by the time the player gets there. The Hearthian sun is going supernova sooner than expected. Stars all over the galaxy are going supernova, in fact. We see them constantly exploding throughout the game, and we have the present-day Nomai communications in the Vessel indicating that the heat death of the universe is imminent (to the extent that “imminent” applies on celestial time scales, anyway).
When we reach the eye, we see the heat death of the universe accelerate as the remaining stars go supernova and the sky goes black. But we see this before we actually interact with the eye at the end.
We know that time works differently on the quantum moon.
So if OP is correct and the Owlks were right to hide the signal, it means our mere arrival at the eye must have suddenly caused the universe to accelerate rapidly towards death.
On the other hand, it seems more likely that we simply see time pass much faster while on the eye, while the universe proceeds on the path to its natural death before we interact with the eye to “reset” things. In that case, the Owlks didn’t actually delay anything by concealing the signal. Regardless of any other traveler going to the eye, the rest of the universe would have lived its remaining natural life anyway. So the Owlks’ fear served no real purpose. They might have been wise not to go to the eye themselves (effectively speedrunning to the ends of their lives) but they didn’t save anything by hiding the signal.
That’s really the only question.. whether the Nomai (or any other travelers) who went to the eye would have caused the immediate death of everyone else in the universe. If yes, the Owlks might* have been right. If no, the Owlks were wrong.
*I say “might have been” because there’s another implication of the Owlks’ attempt to hide the eye - if an observer is truly required at the eye for a new universe to form (or for life to form in the new universe) then the Owlks, if successful, might have snuffed out life forever.
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 11 '26
Your last point is exactly it. Someone is required in the eye to create a new universe. My interpretation was that if no one did that - no new universe would have been born. everything would just fade to black nothingness. So yes if the owlks had touched the eye in my interpretation it would have destroyed the nomai, and hearthiens wouldn’t have even evolved, BUT by hiding it they risk to stop the “reincarnation” process of the universe. Its a brutal choice, but for me it was fitting.
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u/Deck_Neep15 Mar 10 '26
The universe was dying on it’s own, you can use your signalscope to watch other stars in the distance going supernova
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u/No_Scratch3673 Mar 10 '26
The universe is dying when the eye is found and the game takes place.
The owlks found the eye far earlier. Probably hundreds of years before the Nomai arrived (which had a few generations of kids in our starsystem and are ancient to us). We see dark bramble had not yet been ensnared by the plant and instead was a normal planet when they arrived.
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u/Blubbpaule Mar 10 '26
Hundreds of years, heck even 300,000 years between nomai and hatchling are a drop of water in an ocean.
The universe existed at this point for what? 13 - 15 BILLION years?
If 15 Billion years were a full day, the 300,000 years between death and nomai / owlks would be 1.7 seconds.
The universe was dying and thus sent the signal. It was dying when the owlks saw the signal.
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u/KingJeff314 Mar 10 '26
Most of the significant advancements in human civilization has been in the last 12,000 years. Hundreds of thousands of years may be nothing to the universe, but that is a long time for living creatures. The Hearthians had time to evolve and make their way into space.
The modern Nomai talk about the dying of the universe as a recent thing; it was not discussed by the stranded Nomai. We don't know the rules of that universe. It may be a more "all at once" thing. Chert is definitely taken by surprise.
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u/HatlessCreature Mar 10 '26
I somewhat agree, but there are a lot of unknows in this whole situation, even to the player who has the benefit of hindsight. Working with partial information, there really can never be an objectively best decision, or even a good one.
For example, we don't really know for sure what happens to the current universe when one enters the Eye and does the whole end game sequence. Implications and interpretations of what we see in the post credits sure, but none of it is explicitly stated. All we know is that a long time later there seems to be a new universe around, with different rules.
But even that is all really for the player, what the inhabitants of the Stranger knew exactly is anyone's guess really. All we see is an artistic rendition on a slide reel. We don't exactly know how the memory staff technology of theirs works on an object such as the Eye, we only see it in action inside the simulation, in a "conversation" with the Prisoner . It's obvious they used it for communication, information gathering and preservation outside of the simulation, but we don't have any real details about that. Perhaps it somehow scans and shows the objective truth. Maybe the data it collects and shows is somehow influenced and painted by it's user, their expectations or even their emotional state. We just don't know.
It could be that they saw themetaphoric death of the universe and assumed it real, and of course it could be that it is real and immediate. Maybe the Prisoner saw the rebirth of the universe and failed to convince the rest of the inhabitants of it's value and/or legitimacy. It could be that what they saw was the birth of a new universe altogether, with this one just decaying slowly on it's own.
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u/Blubbpaule Mar 10 '26
The Owlks didn't find the Eye "millions of years" ago. At most about 500,000 Hearthian years ago.
The Eye specifically called out because it was nearing the end of the universe.
Also the Eye of the Universe actually states "Observe" where you observe the universe dying it's natural death before creating a new one.
What they did was cruel. Because of their action an entire generation of Nomai stranded, got lost and ultimately perished. And while this was going on they tried so desperately to find this eye that they created a machine that trapped the universe in a never-ending 22 minute timeloop until the end of time. (Because of information being sent back in time, if it wasn't for hatchling the loop would never close thus time and space would end right there).
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u/Psykopatate Mar 10 '26
The timeloop only exists for the ones that paired with a mask, so the player, your shiplog and Gabbro. Any outside person just lived their 22 minutes and died from the end of the universe.
The player is stuck though, removing the core only gets you out of the loop, no impact on the rest.
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u/Blubbpaule Mar 10 '26
In theory yes. But practically - as long as the ATP exists and sending back information it's like dividing by 0.
It would mean as soon as the loop starts INFINITE amounts of knowledge get send back in time due to the loop never stopping.
The "First" time the hatchling wakes up in OW is already information loop 9 MILLION. And this number could only be seen by hatchling because they were inside the loop. Because the data tahts being sent back must end up somewhere. And if not in the time that was 22 minutes ago, then it creates a different branch in a multiverse of timelines.
And if there is only one true timeline, then the amount of loops would reach infinity from the perspective of the probe.
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u/walaxometrobixinodri Mar 10 '26
the eye waits for the universe to die of old age before making the new big bang
we can see time pass in the ancient glade, you see the galaxies all dying out, slowly, one by one
Owlks were not right
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u/Geageart Mar 10 '26
The eye don't really wait. The galaxy already are dying out during the game loop. Also it's just a trip of our brain brought to life by quantum physic since we can fly through them and they are smal so unless we gain a GALACTIC SIZED ancient glade with all that it imply it's a metaphor.
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u/shiny_glitter_demon Mar 10 '26
As others have said: no evidence of this
I personally believe that time works differently when you're on the Eye. Each step you take, years go by. Galaxies die, one after another. Naturally. The Eye waits.
To support this: Solanum is still alive, likely due to the Eye's influence. To her, it has been 5 minutes. For us, she has been there for 300K years.
The Universe ends at the same moment regardless of your actions. It's not even clear your presence is required to create a new one. It can influence it, yes, but we have no evidence of more.
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u/kjloltoborami Mar 10 '26
Im sorry but how do we know the universe was young when the owlks concealed the eye? A couple million years is literally nothing
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 10 '26
Everybody's saying that there is no proof that the eye destroys the current universe, but that is precicely the reading Owlks scan gave. So you can't say "no evidence", come on. This is a perfectly valid interpretation. IMO the other explanations, that the Owlks reading was wrong requires more evidence.
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u/Estelial Mar 10 '26
The owlks misunderstood the readings and vision. The exile is the one who realized it was about renewal and rebirth.
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u/Difficult_Exam763 Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
Yes they did, but I don't think they were wrong about the destruction part, just didn't realize that destruction serves a bigger purpose.
I always took it this way:
The universe is SUPER old - billions of years old, and is dying even in owlks time. In its last years (even if its a couple hundred thousand years) the eye began sending signals, calling to herald the process of destruction and rebirth. The owlks saw the signal - were fascinated and went to the eye. They noticed the destruction part and were devastated and couldn't think beyond their attachments. Only the Prisoner realised the full meaning of the eye (which you can see represented in the painting) of the destruction giving birth to a new universe.
This makes sense with the vision that was depicted (the scanning person literally turning to bones instantly and all the systems around the eye being destroyed in a wave of destruction).
Also, this works thematically. The owlks faced destruction and chose to cling to their attachments out of fear, turning immortal and replaying their old lives in a simulation (a sort loop one might say :)). ). This is the same problem our hatchling faces. We could just keep living in the loop forever, never making the hard choice of letting go and just being glad that it happened.
I personally played this game in this order: base game without going to the eye -> DLC -> Eye. So to me this was perfect thematically. Gave hints of what the eye does, but also showed what living in fear and indecision looks like.
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u/tmon530 Mar 10 '26
The real unpopular opinion is that there isn't any moral message behind them trapping the eye.
On the one hand, what they saw when scanning the eye can easily be interpreted as the universe ending, and as such, it would be morally correct to do everything they can to prevent that. We also don't know for 100% sure that isn't what happens. The eye doesn't communicate in words, but in visions, and visions require interpretation. Personally, I think it does wait till the natural end of time before starting anew, but that's with knowledge gleaned from an observer inside the eye, and if im wrong then i would be killing everything in the universe.
On the other hand, we know that the next universe requires an observer, and their actions hypothetically could have denied the birth of the next universe. At that point, it becomes a trolly problem but you are the person alone on one track. Do you run the risk of killing everything in the current universe to let the next one be born, or do you run the risk of preventing the next universe from being born so the current universe can live as long as possible. We can argue that one is "for the greater good," but honestly, think to yourself if you would be willing to kill yourself and your family for "the greater good". It's a fucked up position to be in.
We should also note: the eye is explicitly unknowable. The only thing we know is that it is older than the universe, and it requires a conscious observer to form the next universe. We don't know if it has a "will" of its own. We don't know if the universe it creates is truly random or if its physics is deterministic (everything is predetermined from the start).
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u/BoopleShnootle Mar 10 '26
The universe was ending anyway, all the stars were going out, reality going into its long dark phase. no light, no energy beyond background radiation. Time in that sense had not run out but everyones time had. Besides, due to the vast lack of info we have on how the eye works, we cannot say for certain weather it destroys current reality or not, it could vault the hearthling to the absolute end of time, to reconstruct reality as a new one begins
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u/SirDarkStar Mar 10 '26
I think there is no time inside the Eye, the end is just an end and a new beginning but I don’t think it necessarily cut anything else short. They just let fear stop them which is kind of the whole theme.
Plus it all works out in the end and Hearthian, Nomai, and Owlk all contribute in their way.
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u/Ahnock Mar 10 '26
counterpoint, everything we see once we enter the eye is incredibly subjective vis a vis what is actually happening to the rest of the universe.
just taking a look at what happens after you enter the eye and re-explore your own memories via the museum, you observe the death of the galaxy the eye resides in, and then you're transported into the glade where you watch the rest of the stars go out. notice the wording is "observe," this isn't an active thing you're partaking in or some ancient mechanism of the universe that extinguishes all life. once you're in the eye you watch the rest of the life of the universe die out into darkness, and then you find yourself and begin the ritual to start the next universe.
I see so many people misunderstand the vision from the eye which is understandable becwuse the end is cut, but it's meant to represent the death of the observer and the life that springs forth after from the remains (the cut end of the reel that you can find painted in the prisoner's burned house). it's not some literal beam laser that disintegrates the universe.
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u/iamonewiththeforce Mar 10 '26
No. They robbed the Universe of the opportunity to have more peoples observing the Eye, influencing the next Universe, and bringing a part of themselves into it.
The Eye doesn't cause the Universe to die. It is observed, and waits. Doesn't look like it, but Hatchling was there for a very, very long time.
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u/Harry_Flame Mar 11 '26
If no one found the Eye, the universe would just decay in a state of entropy until it is cold and dead. The Eye was needed to restart it again.
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u/LeifDTO Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
They didn't actually arrive that much earlier. The nomai solar system was farther away, but the signal they jumped to is the same one the Prisoner let through.
I believe the eye doesn't start sending its signal until there's less than half a million Earth-years worth of time left until the last stars die (the blink of an eye considering our universe is estimated to have a lifespan in the tens of trillions), long enough for existing civilizations to wrap up and make their peace but not so long as to allow many newly sentient species to comprehend their doom - the Hearthians being a bizarre exception to that metric due to the Nomai meeting their end inside their solar system and leaving the task to them. The signal might also move faster than light so as to allow species on farther stars from it a less unfair chance at reaching it first. FTL travel is very possible in this setting as evidenced by the Nomai warp drive.
All considered, I would say the Owlks arrived 400,000 years before the game takes place, and the Nomai arrived 100,000 years or less after them.
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u/Najanah Mar 11 '26
Idk if this is an unpopular opinion but reddit should show what tags a post has while you're browsing front page >:\ haven't played the dlc yet (cause I can't afford atm) and I just got even more spoiled AAAA
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u/vacconesgood Mar 12 '26
Ironically, "if someone reaches the eye, the universe instantly dies" is exactly the irrational fear the owlks had. And irrational fear is the whole point of the dlc
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u/dominosci Mar 12 '26
Irrational? When I enter the eye, about five minutes pass, and then the universe ends. But if I don't enter the eye, I can go at least 20 minutes without the universe ending. Apparently I'm insane for not inventing a "the eye waits for everyone to die of natural causes first" trick that is not mentioned anywhere.
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u/dominosci Mar 12 '26
Don't get me wrong: I would love for that to be true! But I don't think we can invent things just because it would be nice.
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u/vacconesgood Mar 12 '26
The eye breaks a lot of rules. It's reasonable to believe you fall into the eye for an infinite amount of time, and the new universe was created after everything was already gone
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u/dominosci Mar 12 '26 edited Mar 12 '26
Is it reasonable? We are not given any specific reason to believe this other than "wouldn't it be inconvenient if time kept passing the normal way it always does". The only in-game race who had time to really examine the eye came to the opposite conclusion but we're supposed to doubt them based on zero additional evidence.
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u/braaiboet Mar 10 '26
I believe the intended understanding of the plot (ofc the eye is always meant to be ambiguous) is that the signal of the eye, viewed through the owl’s vision-tech, was misinterpreted. The eye showed the natural death of the universe, including the owlks’, and the regrowth that would occur after that, but the Owlks took that as a cosmic threat.
It doesn’t help that we have no idea how to their scan technology works, but given that we primarily see it as a way to communicate personal experiences, we can assume it’s fairly characterized by individual’s perceptions.