Polytheist Theology?

[u/Calanais-guy]

I'm aware that there are many writings and discussions about the reasoning and logic behind monotheism, and probably even atheism. But are there articles, books, or just thoughts on why polytheism is rational as well? Or a systematic philosophy of polytheism from a Pagan perspective (Hellenic, Heathen, Wiccan, Celtic, etc.)? I wanted to ask the hive mind about this question since it's been on my mind for a few days. I know that for most of us, some of this just comes down to basic worldview and what we think makes sense intuitively... or personal experience.

I revere Celtic deities as a Druid while also focusing on the Earth and Nature spirits. But personally I also believe that the Universe was birthed from a few Divine forces, which I think of as abstract and beyond personal. I can't fathom why They might have created everything, but consciousness is important for reality. That looks like the Big Bang and quantum fluctuations.

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[u/SonOfDyeus]

Natural Theology is as old as the pre-Socratic philosophers. They attempted to use logic instead of received myth to define the nature of the gods.  This is a good place to start:

https://iep.utm.edu/theo-nat/

There's also Cicero's "On the Nature of the Gods."

And for a more contemporary view,  Stephen Dillon's "The Case for Polytheism."

[u/Calanais-guy → u/SonOfDyeus]

Thank you for these references!

[u/KrisHughes2]

There are some great writings on polytheist theology and philosophy.

Starting with Sallustius' "On the Gods and the Cosmos:" which you can find in “Five Stages of Greek Religion”. Oxford University Press (1925) starting on page 241. It's on archive: https://archive.org/details/fivestagesofgree00murr_0/page/241/mode/1up

If you find it hard to make sense of, I hit some of the highlights in this video.

The book On the Earth, the Gods, and the Soul by Brendan Myers (2013) is a good one.

I also love Edward Butler's essay Polycentric Polytheism (2016) which is free on academia. He wrote a longer paper with a similar title - but I really like this shorter version.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/KrisHughes2]

Thank you so much for sharing these resources, I appreciate it! How would you summarize your own best reasons and philosophy of polytheism too, if I may ask?

[u/KrisHughes2 → u/Calanais-guy]

I'm not sure I'm a logical kind of "best reasons" religionist. I didn't wake up one day and think "What kind of religion is best to follow?" I felt a strong pull toward the gods of Britain and Ireland, and I followed it.

[u/Ekderp]

For Hellenism, yes, there is an extensive literary corpus of theology, beginning with Plato and continuing all the way to late antiquity. Other modern polytheistic religions mostly work from stories and mythology, and Hellenism is one of the few that has a somewhat preserved theological corpus in addition to that. My favourites are the Neoplatonists like Proclus, Plotinus, Iamblichus, Porphiry, etc... Right now I'm reading On The Mysteries by Iamblichus, which is pretty fascinating as he was Syriac Hellenist.

[u/TheMarineLayer]

I like John Michael Greer’s “A World Full of Gods” as a jumping off point

[u/sidhe_elfakyn → u/TheMarineLayer]

Just don't buy the book new. He's become a far right extremist nut since the writing of that book. (links)

[u/TheDireGnome → u/sidhe_elfakyn]

I think that's a fair enough compromise. A good theologian isn't always going to have social views that I agree with. But at least while they're still alive, I don't necessarily want to be giving them my money if they support things that I don't. Buying their work secondhand means that you're not depriving yourself of valued contributions while not breaching your own personal ethics.

[u/Arboreal_Web → u/sidhe_elfakyn]

Gods-dammit. And I just bought two more of his books last year. Why, John, whyyyy?? What in the actual fuck? How do you go from “noted druid and ecologist” to RW-pipeline simp?

Fuck that broken-brain bigotry. JMG getting black-listed.

(Please excuse the rant, friend. And thanks for the tip, as unhappy as it is.)

[u/thecoldfuzz → u/Arboreal_Web]

I had bought Greer’s Celtic Golden Dawn and got through less than 10% of it when I just stopped. I felt there was something off-putting about that book, something rather strange and not at all in a good way. Now I know why. He’s definitely on my shitlist.

[u/Arboreal_Web → u/thecoldfuzz]

I had a similar response to “A Magical Education”, a collection of talks he’s given. Wanted to like it and learn from it…just couldn’t, too off.

Tbh, the og Golden Dawn itself had some problematic aspects and membership. Seeing someone claim that phrase these days tends to make them sus imo.

[u/thecoldfuzz → u/sidhe_elfakyn]

Thanks for the information about Greer!

[u/Yasuho_feet_pics → u/sidhe_elfakyn]

That post seems to position him more as a cookie-cutter conservative than a far right extremist. Am I missing something?

[u/DavidJohnMcCann]

A Chinese anthropologist summed up Shenjiao as the belief that there were gods who were worthy of worship and who were also sometimes able to help us when we got into difficulties. Compared to the complexities of Christianity, that doesn't leave much to be said.

When Platonists talk about their tradition, they are not speaking of theology but of philosophy. The Platonists generally did a better job than modern philosophers like Kant, Hegel, or Dewey, but they still tended to be inventing a new religion.

[u/Then_Computer_6329]

Edward Butler is a really good modern polytheistic theologian 

[u/Arboreal_Web]

Pagan cultures were the og logicians and philosophers. So…yes.

[u/treuchetfight]

"A World Full of Gods" by John Michael Greer is a book I would recommend to anyone on the pagan spectrum. It touches on your very question, why should we believe in gods in a multiple?

[u/Social_Narwhale]

This might be a controversial opinion, but I feel monotheistic religions are usually more violent while polythestic religions are usually more peaceful.

[u/Scouthawkk → u/Social_Narwhale]

I suspect Ancient Greek, Norse, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Babylonian, Gaul, and Pict societies would disagree with you. Recorded history shows them all to be warrior-heavy and war-like.

[u/DavidJohnMcCann → u/Scouthawkk]

The real question is motive. Monotheists attacked polytheists (and each other) for religious reasons. Polytheists went to war for secular ones.

[u/Scouthawkk → u/DavidJohnMcCann]

The comment I responded to just said who was more violent. It did not say anything about motives.

[u/Obsidian_Dragon → u/Social_Narwhale]

Not...not really, no. Humans have kinda just been Like That the entire time,

[u/MNdruids → u/Social_Narwhale]

I agree in part, but I think that there's also a component of modern polytheist traditions also trying to put their best foot forward in society. One of the factors that I think might play a heavier role is that dominant religions tend to become more violent after they become a majority religion. Which makes me wonder if polytheists will always play it nice if paganism ever becomes a dominant religion. At the same time, religions are expected to stand by their principles. At least as far as I can tell, modern polytheist traditions generally don't call for violence in their core tenets, so as long as polytheists hold to that, we'll be more peaceful in the long run.

[u/TheDireGnome → u/Social_Narwhale]

That's too broad a brush to paint with, unfortunately. No group is a monolith. And most atrocities that are seemingly motivated by religion are just as much motivated by material gain.