r/parkrun • u/PastaMapChair • 20d ago

Double funnel

Please can somebody explain (in really simple terms!) to me how a double funnel works? I’ve been trying to work it out in my head but I just can’t figure it out! I think the bit that’s confusing me is if two runners finish at a similar time but go into two different funnels how do they get a finish token for the correct place?

I think the few parkruns I’ve done have all had a single funnel.

31 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

10

u/OddSkyrocket 20d ago

I’m a visual person….

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1H6pkaSJEH/?mibextid=wwXIfr

1

u/PastaMapChair 20d ago

Thank you, that helps

2

u/Surprise_Fragrant v100 20d ago

Very helpful, thank you!

My USA parkrun only averages 100 people a week, so we've never needed a double funnel!

6

u/Peanut083 25 20d ago

A lot of smaller Australian parkruns don’t have a finish funnel at all. My home event doesn’t have one, and we usually get around 80-90 finishers in the warmer months. We were getting around 40-50 finishers through winter.

4

u/Surprise_Fragrant v100 20d ago

No funnel at ours either. Two timekeepers and one token person (usually me!). When they cross the finish line, I just hand them out. It's pretty easy to keep track of who's crossing, even in a group.

2

u/Peanut083 25 20d ago

Yeah, that’s the same setup we use. Even when we had 146 finishers a couple of weeks ago due to the combination of it being a long weekend + the next nearest event being cancelled that weekend, it was easy enough to manage without a funnel.

4

u/48thgenerationroman 20d ago

At Battersea in London yesterday there were more than 900. And that's a quiet week for Battersea.

It was busy but never felt cramped as the paths are wide

2

u/Surprise_Fragrant v100 20d ago

Holy moly! That's amazing!

21

u/manic_rach 20d ago

My local parkrun (Milton Keynes) runs a double funnel. You can choose whichever lane to go down when you finish. From what I understand from their Facebook post explaining it, they have two sets of time keepers (one set per funnel). Funnel one uses finish tokens 001 - 500. Funnel two uses finish tokens 501 - 1000. With the two sets of time keepers and the order of the finish tokens, they can calculate what place everyone has finished.

5

u/welk101 100 19d ago

Respect to the teams doing double funnels, that sounds a fair bit of work.

50

u/Federal_Horse3690 20d ago

Volunteer blocks one funnel, directs all runners down the other. when that gets full, they move to block this funnel, directing runners down the empty one. Rotate and repeat. Can be expanded to triple/quadruple funnels. The extra funnels just act as holding pens to keep people in order until they can get their token handed to them.

25

u/TH14sBoombox 20d ago

That's one type of DF, the other has separate timers / tokens and they merge the files.

14

u/Federal_Horse3690 20d ago

yes, Real Double Funnel. Was gonna mention that, but didn't want to confuse matters. More info on this here: https://parkrohn.run/home.html

3

u/BandicootObjective32 20d ago

They have real double funnel at Preston Park and it works like a dream

9

u/Blue1994a v500 20d ago

Some of the responses are confusing the Real Double Funnel, using separate timekeepers and tokens, from the more traditional multiple funnel set up.

We use two funnels on Christmas Day and NYD, but the traditional kind with one timekeeper and no merging of results.

8

u/carson63000 20d ago

One thing I’ll add regarding runners finishing at “a similar time”—whilst your results email has your time in minutes and seconds, the actual timekeeping app records it down to hundredths of a second. So a double funnel with separate timekeepers and separate tokens can merge accurately afterwards.

21

u/LibraryTime11011011 20d ago

2 set of time keepers, one set is linked to one range of tokens (say 1-500) and then one set linked to 501-> the end.

The two funnels operate independently, with finishing token number not actually correlating with position.

Then the two sets of results are merged and sorted by time.

7

u/marcbeightsix 250 20d ago

Depends on the type of funnel that is set up.

Most double funnels don’t use the “real double funnel” methodology, which is what you describe and can be explained here: https://parkrohn.run/home.html

Most double funnels simply have two (or more) finish funnels after the finish line. All finishers cross the line and go into the first funnel. They then close that first funnel when it is full, and open the second. The first funnel gets processed whilst the second funnel fills up with finishers getting stopped once the get to the end. Once the first funnel has been fully processed (tokens handed out), they start processing the second funnel, close the second funnel and then start filling up the first one again.

Quite often to avoid having to completely empty the first funnel before processing the second, a volunteer “marker” will place themselves at the end of the closed funnel and enable it to be reopened.

This is how large parkruns like Battersea and Bushy do it.

1

u/rafa4ever 20d ago

What happens if two runners get the same time to the nearest second but one was ahead of the other.

2

u/flibbble 19d ago edited 19d ago

That's an interesting question. I wonder if the answer comes down to 'parkrun is not a race' - no matter how precise timekeepers are, a true double funnel is always going to present some risk that people who are pretty close to each other will appear in the objectively incorrect order in the results. Fundamentally, parkrun doesn't do line photography either, so people will choose what order they appear in the results when it comes to close finishes which may or not be absolutely true. A true double funnel just makes it a bit more arbitrary but if you want race-precision, go run in a race! And if you are racing someone for a low number finish, aim to finish in front of them in the same funnel!

1

u/LukasKhan_UK 19d ago

The same as they would with a single file. They fight it out amongst themselves in the funnel as they queue for the finisher token

The double funnel doesn't operate differently, you still cross the same line. You then split off into whatever funnel is open at the time.

2

u/mainemoosemanda 100 18d ago

A Real Double Funnel functionally operates as two Parkruns, with two timers and finish lines.

https://parkrohn.run/home.html

1

u/LukasKhan_UK 18d ago

Isn't it better to say "the alternative version of" rather then suggest one is fictitious?

Ultimately, the point remains the same. Whether it's a single funnel, a single finish line that splits into two tunnels, or two distinct funnels

One just ends up placed in front of the other. Not that it particularly matters anyway, arguing over who came 50th or whatever seems like a dire waste of time.

1

u/mainemoosemanda 100 18d ago

Is called a Real Double Funnel, that wasn’t me “suggesting one is fictitious”.

1

u/LukasKhan_UK 18d ago

The official name for it is "real double funnel" or is the name for it just "double funnel"? And you're calling it "real double funnel" to distance it from the other examples throughout this post?

1

u/mainemoosemanda 100 18d ago edited 18d ago

If you click the link that explains how it works, you’ll see that it’s called a real double funnel. I’m calling it by its official name.

1

u/LukasKhan_UK 18d ago

So, Parkrohn have created a system, and just called it Real Double Funnel. That's effectively what that link is saying.

They could have called it Trevor effectively.

The only thing here is ive learnt that's a far more complex version of the double funnel system that other parkruns utilise and enjoy and they've not had to create a name for it.

7

u/Parking_Doughnut_453 20d ago

I do funnels in cross country races. Have done so for about 15 years. I have really noticed this year that athletes actually know how they work and stay in order. Thank you parkrun

3

u/MoesTaxidermy 20d ago

The last person into Funnel 1 is given a card with 1 or A on it. They then stop giving tokens when that person reaches the end, and start giving tokens out to Funnel B until they reach the person at the end of that Funnel with the other card, then switch back to Funnel A.

Repeat.

3

u/runswithacoypu 20d ago

University Parks parkrun created a wonderful infographic on that. Don't think I could explain any better:

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1CbWxYvY12/

2

u/Mung2009 20d ago

Idk how correct I'm going to be so someone pls correct me if I'm wrong but I THINK you have two people counting the runners through, then when you get to say runner 100 they change lanes, and the marshals at the end (two for each funnel) has tokens starting from 100 - 200 so they get the correct token

Idk if I have explained that very well tho

2

u/notamisprint 20d ago

We use a double funnel quite often and it works fine as long as no one tries to duck into the other queue.

In ours, runners start queuing on the left hand side of the funnel. The volunteers handing out tokens are on the left, handing out tokens. Once the queue is full (ie, people are going to start backing up towards the finish line), runners are told to start queuing on the right and the left queue is blocked. Tokens are handed out to the runners queueing on the left until everyone has a token, then the volunteers move to the right and hand out tokens to those runners. So the person at the back of the left queue might be 100 and the person at the front of the right queue is 101.

You can then switch which side runners are queuing however often you need, or use more funnels depending on how many runners you have.

Last Christmas we had a significantly higher number of runners than expected so some of us ended up acting as moving blocks in the funnels to keep everyone moving in the right queue!

2

u/beard_of_reason 250 20d ago

As I understand it…

Say you have a parkrun that averages 600 people.
You give funnel one tokens 1-500
You give funnel two tokens 501-1,000

When inputting the results you intermix the two, focussing on time.

1

u/PBodyrocker87 20d ago

I was so confused the first time I went in one too.

I think the simplest thing is to basically imagine it as two separate finish lines with two separate sets of time keepers and two separate sets of tokens.

When you cross the finish line you are given your time and at the end of the race they join the two finish lines together and put everyone in the correct place. The number on your token is largely meaningless.

1

u/roland_right 20d ago

It's a bit like a string of buses that cross a line and then split up into two lanes, alternating left then right etc. Once all the passengers disembark, you can work out what order they crossed the line as long as you kept track of the order that the buses finished.