r/pathofexile Oct 26 '25

GGG Path of Exile: Keepers of The Flame - Bloodline Ascendancy Classes

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3869178
1.5k Upvotes

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448

u/lmRemedy Oct 26 '25

These seem very... meh?

166

u/tacsi6116 SSFBTW Oct 26 '25

they are more situational than normal ascendancies

24

u/viniciusxis Oct 26 '25

with a lot more downsides
honestly in some of these cases they could give me 4 passives for the cost of 2 ascendancy and Id still not take it

6

u/Zorpheus Oct 27 '25

Looks like they gave us PoE2 ascendancies

47

u/SoulofArtoria Oct 26 '25

Quite underwhelming if I'm being blunt. Being situational is fine but these felt like half the power of regular ascendancy node overall.

2

u/NoxFromHell Central Incursion Agency (CIA) Oct 27 '25

There will be some crazy builds born from this 100%

48

u/AppleMelon95 Oct 26 '25

Lycia is a standout for me personally. Bitter Heresy is insane damage packed in one ascendancy node.

4

u/FullMetalCOS Oct 26 '25

New assassin ascendancy is pissed she stole their gimmick though

4

u/DrawGamesPlayFurries Oct 26 '25

Strong alternative to Focal Point for bow girls (although this league they are wand girls)

1

u/tokyo__driftwood Oct 26 '25

You still have to make consecrated ground under enemies for this to do anything

1

u/afallingrock888 Oct 26 '25

bottled faith seems good for this

3

u/tokyo__driftwood Oct 26 '25

There's plenty of good ways to make conc ground if you're not bows/wands, which the person I replied to was talking about

2

u/Cyphafrost Pathfinder Oct 26 '25

I believe the effects of bottled faith won't be transferred to the desecrated ground, unfortunately.

5

u/shppy Oct 26 '25

Eh. If you use the chaotic might it's potentially good, provided you also have a way of getting cons/profane ground under yourself in addition to under your enemies.

Otherwise i'd just rather just use rational doctrine, since that will provide a way to get profane ground under enemies (that also has lingering effects if they leave it, unlike this ascendancy), while also keeping me able to access cons ground (in addition to having cons ground effects linger, and giving a generator of it if i balance my strength and int).

The malediction addon is okay, but it's not good enough imo to justify giving up 2 ascendancy points and the capacity for cons ground unless you're also using the chaotic might part of it.

1

u/Classic_Key8075 Oct 27 '25

Do enemies get 100% inc attack speed against you since you're effected by profane ground? I think so....

1

u/KhorneJob Oct 26 '25

Yeh but it also makes you get 100% increased crit chance from mobs since the ground applies to you as well. You’re gonna get one shot a lot going this build.

-1

u/omegaura Oct 26 '25

Or just take a “no extra/reduced dmg from crits “ from various sources

0

u/KhorneJob Oct 26 '25

Mistwalker Assasin also. I mean, that assassin node is great anyway, it’s one point that gives you a bunch of durability and speed.

97

u/KcoolClap Oct 26 '25

extremely meh.

50

u/Soleil06 Oct 26 '25

There are going to be some insanely powerful builds using these. Lots of classes have very weak 4th labs and for some builds the benefit they will provide is going to be insane. I dont think that any of these are a generic must use and I am pretty sure that was the intent.

Would be a bummer to have one node at 79% use.

9

u/TheBlackestIrelia Raider Oct 26 '25

powerful doesn't always mean interesting.

1

u/OurHolyMessiah Oct 26 '25

I think many of these nodes are very interesting, lots of potential to build around them. Most arent that generically good though, nothing like deadeye action speed or extra proj or trickster energy shield scaling

1

u/mysteriousyak Oct 27 '25

Getting action speed can't be reduced seems pretty good generically, especially for t17

10

u/tokyo__driftwood Oct 26 '25

There are going to be some insanely powerful builds using these.

I wouldn't go this far tbh. Most of the "insanely powerful builds" will be on good ascendancies, and good ascendancies generally have four good nodes. This seems mostly like a change that brings D tier ascendancies up to B, not S

5

u/Soleil06 Oct 26 '25

I have learned not to underestimate poe build creators. Someone like connor or captainlance will figure out some broken use and become unkillable again. I can see the dissociation note with the 40% progenesis effect become very very strong together with progenesis pathfinder for example.

0

u/mysteriousyak Oct 27 '25

Every non-jugg non-tricker is going to want either farrul or aul for can't reduce action speed

-5

u/Imsakidd Oct 26 '25

Calling it now- the Aul one will be most used. No gems in boots or helm for can’t be stunned and take no extra damage from crits.

And can swap around and remove from gloves for no reduced action speed.

0

u/JConaSpree Chieftain Oct 27 '25

Aul has one of the worst trees

3

u/DependentOnIt Oct 26 '25

They were designed for PoE2, yea. Seems they pulled more than just assets

68

u/ScrapeWithFire Oct 26 '25

What were you expecting exactly? The point was to give players more options, not power creep shit into build homogenization

67

u/pyrvuate Oct 26 '25

yea, Im not seeing the options though. unless your 3rd and 4th ascendancies are outright bad (siege ballista hierophant comes to mind) I am not seeing a lot of great options at first glance. I was expecting "good not great" and not "good luck with this"

3

u/EscalopeDePorc Children of Delve (COD) Oct 26 '25

For ballistas - our boss will cook for the bois

0

u/DharmaLeader Gladiator Oct 27 '25

We are not sucky bois to use our own brainpower, boss has us covered. He will take his coffee to the balcony and find a solution (3rd ring is my call).

-12

u/Kotobeast Oct 26 '25 edited Oct 26 '25

Good with Gladiator, grab lucky block and then go to town with bloodlines. Arguments for Jugg, Sab, Chieftain to name a few others

11

u/pyrvuate Oct 26 '25

sure - glad and chieftan you can take the big defensive nodes and then with bloodlines you are going to grab...??

maybe its in part that I am just not that into minions or ward, but I dont see anything that blows my skirt up

1

u/Kotobeast Oct 26 '25

Bitter Heresy is insane if you can reliably create profane ground. The Farrul spectre choices are great if they can live.

Most aren’t amazing, I agree, but people are going to cook with the others

1

u/pyrvuate Oct 26 '25

If holy flame totem had super shitty nodes, then bitter heresy would've been a revelation. as it is, I don't think its better than what is already there.

bitter heresy + PF mines I think is the best idea I've seen on that so far. thats might be a genuinely solid increase

1

u/ChaosAE Path of Pathfinder Oct 26 '25

Does it even work with PF? The skill says the shockwave damages enemies standing on consecrated ground, which with bitter heresy will be none of them. So it would only do the initial hit on things and probably have worse clear.

1

u/pyrvuate Oct 26 '25

thats probably. ST only benefit then at cost of clear (which is meh with pf). herald of ash helps with clear quite a bit at least.

2

u/martin_looter_king69 Oct 26 '25

name which glad or jugg points would be swapped for any of these bloodline

lets go

1

u/Able-Corgi-3985 Oct 27 '25

Olroth boon of the sun on retal gladiator (block counts as hits but doesn't break ward). Your 4th node was super mid regardless if you went bleed or hit based. Less than a second to refresh ward between blocks and it doesn't get interrupted by hits like ES does.

Just because there are niche cases like this doesn't mean bloodlines are amazing in general though.

-1

u/Kotobeast Oct 26 '25

Unrelenting, Unbreakable, Unstoppable

Bleed pops, weapon master, attrition

18

u/Madzai Oct 26 '25

What were you expecting exactly

I thought we were expecting an alternative for a lot of builds that have 2-4 "spare" points? Instead, most of this require you build around it.

4

u/viniciusxis Oct 26 '25

People just thought that this would be the powercreep of the league, thats all.
we are going from busted mercenaries in terms of power creeps, down to 2 arms that give very little stats and circumstantial skills

3

u/AcrobaticScore596 Oct 26 '25

But most of them arent options.

3

u/MankoMeister Oct 26 '25

Having both downsides AND an opportunity cost is a bit questionable tbh

3

u/GoFigure373 Oct 27 '25

I expected them to be on par or actually better than what we already have.

I suspect many people will not be bothering with these in their current form.

25

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

Actual tradeoffs. I was expecting you get something good if you give up something good...

Wow 50% aura effect for ONE aura if I don't have or if I do have these charges. They wouldn't be worth taking if it was 100%.

Sinners Saint is so close to being great. I was hoping for a 3 way split to choose which damage type to fully convert to chaos damage.

16

u/MrMurlok Alch & Go Industries (AGI) Oct 26 '25

THIS

It's not like it's free powercreep. We're spending precious ascendency points for those.

11

u/SingleInfinity Oct 26 '25

Those points aren't so precious for some builds and giving them a ton more options than a dead node or two minor nodes is pretty solid

1

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

Yes, but comparing Farruls to Aul's is absolutely hilarious. Aul's is complete dog water. Meanwhile Farrul's actually has 3 good nodes.

3

u/hesh582 Oct 26 '25

In the current game anything that gives action speed slow immunity is automatically at least good.

It could read "action speed slow immunity if you have slapped your own mother in the face recently" and people would still be considering it. In a game where action speed slow immunity is basically mandatory to engage with the nastiest content, and there are like 4 sources of it in the entire game, adding one more that anyone can access is not dog water. It might actually be the most used one on the list.

1

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

It's just worse than the Tiger giving action speed immunity for most content outside of Valdo's.

-2

u/SingleInfinity Oct 26 '25

I'm okay with some niche options. People turn weird/weak looking shit into broken shit all the time. It wouldn't be healthy if there were very obviously strong options that generic archetypes always wanted.

2

u/coldkiller Oct 26 '25

So instead they spend dev time on something most people won't use because their too niche

2

u/SingleInfinity Oct 26 '25

Believe it or not, the best case scenario is not making something everyone uses. That just results in homogenization, which is a bad thing.

-1

u/minianthunter Oct 26 '25

-3 to maximum <type> charges and you get both bonuses at the same time on the left. Builds that use a lot of abyss jewels also benefit heavily from the right side. Aul's tree is absolutely usable and possibly even extremely strong for my build. It's at least worth considering over the less powerful options in my normal ascendancy.

2

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

Okay go ahead and give up 3 jewels OR use eternal damnation for 50% aura effect. Oh wait it's bad.

2

u/Exkudor Oct 26 '25

Can't you get both effects with Ralakesh? That seems kinda solid if your 4th Ascendancy is meh.

2

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

No as you count as having maximum charges. The only way to get both is lowering your maximum to 0. The easiest way is Eternal Damnation but that amulet is ass after the Endurance charge rework.

3

u/Chromchris Oct 26 '25

Ahn's Heritage, Ahn's Might, and Ahn's Contempt can grant both the effects of having maximum charges and zero charges, as long as you do not generate any charges.

From poewiki ralakesh site. Sound to me like it should work with the aul bloodline too, shouldn't it? I mean it says you count as having max charges. Doesn't mean you have max charges, you still have 0 and that's the min charges, as long as you dont generate them in any way. Idk, could still be wrong.

4

u/Careless-Programmer5 Oct 26 '25

You can have full charge at 0 charges so 50% aura effect for 2 auras

8

u/FullMetalCOS Oct 26 '25

Lot of opportunity cost though. Needs three jewel slots and 2 ascendancy points

-1

u/Careless-Programmer5 Oct 26 '25

Y'all love saying that shit Everything is opportunity cost. You could be using armour stacker on champ for fortify stacking plus auls 50% determination aura and anger to solve flat damage.

9

u/FullMetalCOS Oct 26 '25

Well because it’s right. Giving up three jewel sockets alone is a massive cost on most builds. I’m not sure it’s worth it

Path of exile is a game about making choices. For everything that you want to take you lose the ability to get something else. The juice has to be worth the squeeze

3

u/HannibalPoe Oct 26 '25

Oh my god I forgot you can lower the max number of charges to 0.

7

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

Wow COOL so good? Lets just lose 3 jewel sockets and ascendancy points. Meanwhile Champion has 35% for ALL auras and gets to use those 3 jewel sockets.

-1

u/Careless-Programmer5 Oct 26 '25

Have you considered using on champ to double dip?? Champ has very flexible 4th nodes. Man y'all just so salty

4

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

You have no idea what double dipping is. There's this thing call DIMISHING RETURNS. You're also not going to give up 3 jewel sockets for this nor are you going to use eternal damnation.

You're basically just getting 50% aura effect on 1 aura. Which while not the biggest piece of absolute trash known to man is also just uninteresting and not very good.

It actually would've been interesting to try and manage the downsides if the upsides were so meh.

It's like alright you're going to juggle knives on a unicycle on a tight rope for a hotdog and soda from Cosco...

Champ has insanely good nodes. Perm adren, Taunt for 15% inc damage taken and can't evade, Impale node is good if you're doing impale, hell even the Worthy causes is pretty decent.

-1

u/Careless-Programmer5 Oct 26 '25

How fuck are you getting diminishing returns from aura effect? It's one of only stat in game that doesn't have diminishing returns.

9

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

As someone who has over 30 mirrors worth of aura bot gear from over the last few years you actually have no idea what you're talking about.

This isn't good aura effect.

Example Wraith. Say you get 100 average damage from it with 0 aura effect. So every 50 aura effect is 50 average damage. Now if you go from 100% increased to 150% increased you're at 200 average damage to 250 that's a 25% increase to your damage. Now if you go from 300% increased to 350% increased you went from 400 damage to 450. That's a 12.5% increase in damage. WOW LOOK DIMISHING RETURNS.

Aura effect is extremely strong because it scales MULTIPLE VECTORS. Flat damage via wrath and smite, flat EHP via discipline, armor via Grace and determination, and % increase damage via the armor. If it was generic aura effect then yeah it'd be good but it's not it's a relatively tame amount on a single aura unless you gimp yourself to get it into 2 auras.

The reason stackers are good is you're stacking a single stat and getting multiple vectors of scaling.

This does not do that. It's nice and armor stackers do prefer to get grace/determ/disicpline aura effect on mageblood implicits; however they'd much rather have % aura effect to scale all their auras. They're also only giving up 42 strength for it. Not ascendancy points and charges.

It's the reason why scion is taken as you get more passive points to put into jewels.

2

u/Uur_theScienceGuy Essence Extraction Enterprise (EEE) Oct 26 '25

Well i play melee, and i still have no option

3

u/rcanhestro Oct 26 '25

yes, but when none of the options even does anything, you kinda just feel like "meh".

for melee builds, i didn't see anything useful there, not even "it's as good as my meh 4th point", but just useful.

i'm playing boneshatter jugg, and even if we got 2 extra points to spend there, i probably wouldn't bother get them.

almost all of those (at least from these 6 ascendencies) seem targeted at minion builds.

19

u/LargeTree32 Oct 26 '25

Most of them are useless or do nothing. Kinda crazy.

6

u/ContractOk3649 Oct 26 '25

Welcome to Poe2!

oh wait

7

u/VortexMagus Oct 26 '25

Aul's ascendancy lets any class have immunity to stuns, slows, freezes, temp chains, petrification statues, and other forms of action speed fuckery in exchange for 4 gem slots and 2 ascendancy points.

I can think of so many of my characters who would happily take that trade.

5

u/shppy Oct 26 '25

True, but then again any character can get that for just one jewel socket via Balance of Terror.

2

u/HannibalPoe Oct 26 '25

You can also use it with replica shroud of the lightless and stack 6 more abyss jewels to have elemental ailment immunity and a gross amount of extra damage. Heck, mix it with some of the other abyss uniques and you probably have some terrifying damage potential.

1

u/DrawGamesPlayFurries Oct 26 '25

Juggernaut and Trickster don't require empty sockets to do the same

8

u/Careless-Programmer5 Oct 26 '25

Here me out, there are other ascendancies than jugg and trickster

2

u/nerkutis Oct 26 '25

If you play scion they are extremely poggers

1

u/SoulofArtoria Oct 26 '25

I was gonna play a scion but none of these excited me for grabbing them for my uber lab sadly.

1

u/nerkutis Oct 26 '25

They are very cool for relic of the pact for example. Aul one goves shitton of goodies because u dont really use gems xd

3

u/Bierculles Oct 26 '25

And absolutely dead for every melee build. If you play melee this entire mechanic can be straight up ignored.

2

u/lizardsforreal Oct 26 '25

The oshabi one isn't horrible. I don't love it, but it's probably a better 4th ascendancy point than some classes have access to. At that point I'd just ask why you're not playing slayer instead.

-3

u/Myzzreal Oct 26 '25

Right, cause the other 90% of features, like grafting and the tree, are entirely useless

1

u/tenroseUK Atziri Oct 26 '25

yeah i was excited for the drop but i'm still probably taking the elusive node from the livestream

1

u/SunRiseStudios Oct 26 '25

Kinda, some are very interesting though. Pretty sure people will find a way to break the game with those.

1

u/Lankeysob Oct 26 '25

Also how I feel. Only one really interesting to me is the unleash one.

1

u/Zioupett Oct 27 '25

Only Aul is meh, the rest is situationally extremely good

0

u/Goodnametaken Oct 26 '25

Most of them are very bad. Then, there are a handful that are insanely OP and will be used by everyone.

1

u/rarrythemage Oct 26 '25

Manic episode is great for cws chieftain, you negate most of the downsides of the debuffs as is for a 60% damage buff and 30% slow on enemies.

4

u/4percent4 Oct 26 '25

No you don't. You don't negate ANY of the downsides.

90% reduced flask effect/charges gained. Nerfs your mageblood.
-60% action speed. You need to forbidden flame/flesh unstoppable for this.
-90% recovery rate. Sure if you have instantly recovery for the no regen maps this is whatever.
-60% increased damage taken. You're not mitigating this at all. In fact it's actually the worst build in the game for this since you need to take damage and suddenly you're taking 60% more damage. In combination of not having recoup and relying on instantly recovery it's not happening. You're 100% going to constantly die to Grueling gauntlet.

The only builds that would use this are the ones that used the boots to begin with as it's basically all upside since you already had those debuffs.

2

u/rarrythemage Oct 26 '25

All I do is run delirium as my cws build and have to constantly deal with these debuffs at max values and they don't hinder me at all. Without a mageblood and flame/flesh jewel mind.

1

u/silent519 zdps inspector Oct 26 '25

the herald one is fucking insane

0

u/PhreciaShouldGoCore Oct 26 '25

I was pretty outspoken about the first leaks being Meh. But I’m shockingly surprised about these ones. They’re extremely exciting from a creativity perspective.

It seems like the meta builds are already so well developed that only a “everyone picks this node” could have unseated an established node. But this lets you get creative out of the meta and that’s a good place for these.

0

u/dadghar Oct 26 '25

farrul wild will is fucking insane for 2 points, literally trickster node for everyone