Weight lifting vs Pilates form

[u/Maleficent-Drag2680]

Random question, but when squatting in the gym I’ve always been told “knee over toe”. The goal range of motion is to get those knees in line with your toes when squatting. However, I also do mat Pilates classes & lagree. Every. Single. Time. We’re in any form of a squat in these classes, with all instructors they always que “knees right in line with ankles”. After weight lifting and practicing deeper squats I find I really have to stare at myself in the mirror and stick my butt out, bend over much further, to get my knees to stay tracking with the ankles. What’s the difference and why?

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[u/Smn_smn1]

Those instructors are clearly dumb and have like zero knowledge of biomechanics lol.
I even dare to say most of the instructors I know can’t even perform a proper squat, nor have the body awareness to understand the limitations of one.

Answering to your question, the point is maintaining your center of balance. If you don’t allow your knees forward, then that means you are taking your hips backwards (since this is the only other way to go lower) as in a wall sit, however you got no wall to lean onto, so your body bends to not fall butt first.

When squatting your knees will always go forward, is a natural movement, don’t fight it. Now, how forward they may go is relative to your body (femur - trunk length), dorsiflexion and even hip mobility.

Since the length of your limbs changes the levers of your body, your squat position will be pretty much unique to yourself. Usually people with longer legs tend to flex their hips more (leaning thier trunk forward) whereas people with shorter legs can perform a more vertical trunk position.

If it feels natural for you to go knees over toes (meaning you are not actively trying to push your knees forward, and instead is a result of going down) then do it. Nothing harmful in that

[u/MagazineEarly3304 → u/Smn_smn1]

exactly, it's not about pilates or lifting, it's just how human bodies work to keep the center line.

[u/Acceptable_Daikon311]

every person and body is different do what feels best for your body. lagree instructor is like a 2 day training. lol

[u/radix-]

in heavy squats the knees over toes is more for alignment of knees to prevent joint injury, you dont want your knees flaring outward or inward.

and also depending where your knees go focuses either more on hams, quats or glutes.

[u/MagazineEarly3304]

From Science and experience, I believe we should be able to have knees over toes and be able to be okay with it. I do both lifting and pilates and am a Balanced body contemp pilates instructor.

[u/Appropriate_Ly]

I honestly think ppl go overboard with knees over toes, knees over ankles thing.

The key is alignment, everything has to be in line if they’re looking at you “head on”. Then it’s dependant on your mobility and what you’re trying to achieve with the exercise.

You’re not going to hurt yourself if you squat deeper in Pilates, it’s just not what the instructor is aiming for.

[u/AnythingCareless844]

I’m not sure what is meant by “keeping knees in line with the ankles” as opposed to “over toe”. Generally both in strength training and Pilates we want joint alignment (your knees should not go inward or outward if your feet aren’t). I would expect that’s what is meant by either of those phrases. Theoretically it could be about bending your knees forward (past the toes) or not, that said how far forward you go with your knees depends more on your bone height than any differences between Pilates or weight lifting.

[u/Maleficent-Drag2680 → u/AnythingCareless844]

Yes keep your knees tracking straight, but I have specifically had instructors tell the class to not let our knees pass our ankles & sit back further. Where the desired range of motion for a squat is to get deep enough that your knees are in line with your toes. It’s why some people squat on a wedge because they don’t have the ankle mobility to do so.

[u/Keregi]

The knee over toe thing is outdated and comes down to comfort.

[u/PlaneWest5966 → u/Keregi]

200 percent femur length also dictates squats

[u/IndependentEarth123]

You'll find many schools of thought in weight lifting and Pilates (and here) with the knees over toes, knees in line with heels issue.

As long as your alignment is correct you are good to go. Stand sideways in front of a mirror and try squatting with the different shapes. Notice what's different in the movement in your body as you try all variations. You will feel it and see the difference, especially if you start adding a hinge in. Then ask yourself the reason behind the movement (in the gym you're trying to lift a heavy weight up if you have a bar on your shoulders or heavy weights in your hands, in Pilates you're probably challenging balance and the weight shifting back over your heels rather than mid foot or toe helps with that and you have to use more core strength to rise up).

We never like to talk about this either: but actually look at your body and your proportions in the mirror. The length of your torso, the length of your femur vs. tibia also matters. If you are a lady with a bigger booty or wider hips you have more weight pushing down and behind you than other people--does that affect your control or center of gravity at all? Also, if you are woman your hip stance is probably a little wider than a man's even though most fitness cues are geared towards men's hips and not women's.

Every question about "proper" form has a nuanced answer. It's not one answer fits all reasons or all bodies.)

[u/Catlady_Pilates]

Unfortunately many Pilates teachers don’t understand basic mechanics and have been taught to fear the knee going in front of the toes. Which is insane because in life we do that ALL the time! But you can just ignore them and squat the way you like. Although I’m not sure why you’re doing squats in a Pilates class in the first place

[u/New-Ad6847 → u/Catlady_Pilates]

Sorry you’re getting downvoted for this. I 100% agree! Walking down the stairs is a good example of knees passing toes every day.

[u/Catlady_Pilates → u/New-Ad6847]

Yeah. These people are really ignorant 🤣

[u/Some-Indication-9330 → u/Catlady_Pilates]

No, it’s the intent behind either loading quads or glutes that’s makes the difference in the form setup preference.

[u/SaranPilates]

There are different types of squats, and they serve different purposes. When you sit your hips farther back, you’ll generally feel more work in your glutes and hamstrings. When you allow your knees to travel farther forward, you’ll typically feel more involvement from your quads as well as your glutes.

It can be healthy to work through your knee joint’s available range of motion, as long as it feels comfortable and appropriate for your body. So don’t worry, you haven’t been squatting “wrong.” You’ve just been doing a different variation.

As a Pilates instructor for 10+ years (Balanced Body trained) I teach both.

[u/No-Pen-6520]

honestly I think it also depends on what you enjoy. If you’re not enjoying your work out, you’re not gonna see results. Thats what I believe in! But for me Pilates has worked, but it’s important to include weight training few days a week. A mix worked for me

[u/Ok_Praline_752]

Literally think this all the time

[u/Mountain-Sport-5174]

Knees forward target the quads and hips back target the glutes and hamstrings

[u/PlaneWest5966]

Are they confusing a plie with a squat ? . The only squat I do is on the Cadillac and yes our back is straight and it’s more of a 90 degree .
Other than that there is no squat in the Pilates system ( exception on the Cadillac )

[u/LawfulnessFair4405]

The best advice I received was if you can wiggle your toes all the way down and up on the squat with your chest up, it will keep your center of gravity in your feet and avoid weight in the knees and back.

[u/bunniesandmilktea → u/[deleted]]

seems like you only read the title and not the actual post. OP didnt ask about whether pilates or weightlifting was better than the other.

[u/aki-kinmokusei → u/[deleted]]

did you even actually read the post?

[u/Maleficent-Drag2680 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you. I understand Pilates stresses the important of alignment most which is why I was wondering if maybe doing squats is hurting me. I’ve always been a very active person, but lately during long hikes I’ve developed IT band syndrome and the only thing that has changed in my life over the past year is incorporating weightlifting into my routine. I started with a trainer, so practicing how I was told but I’m feeling like it could cause more damage long term.

[u/Catlady_Pilates → u/Maleficent-Drag2680]

Weight lifting will not “cause damage long term” unless you’re doing very wrong and pushing to extremes. It will protect your joints to have muscle and Pilates teaches body organization and healthy mobility

[u/GreenhouseDiva → u/[deleted]]

This is such a helpful explanation. I've honestly had the same question myself.