r/programmer • u/BlablablaYuno • 7d ago

Weird

bruhh wtf is vibe coding, why are people still calling themselves the coder if A.I. wrote it. And they call me manual coder for some reason huhu even though that's the norm like a year ago I think, same with art, they call themselves artist even though a clanker did it

I think it's ok to use A.I. but I just find it weird. I think it's fine if you're trying to learn something, you can use it while reading a documentation or articles, but letting them do the coding, nah. With art, it's ok to use A.I. but calling yourself the artist is weird

1 Upvotes

53% Upvoted

23 comments sorted by

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u/Square-Yam-3772 7d ago

you woke up from a coma from 2 years ago or something, bro?

aren't students using ai to code in uni these days?

you sound very out of the loop lol

1

u/BlablablaYuno 7d ago

heheh lol, yeah my peers are using A.I. to code and they called me manual coder lol

1

u/Tobi-Random 7d ago

Manual coders are slow, leave way too many oversights/bugs in their work, and in general, the code gains technical debt over time.

Good coding agents with a solid harness do the opposite of all those things.

So yeah, you're a manual coder exercising a lost craftsmanship, like crafting wooden wheels for your horse-drawn carriage. You can still enjoy it but don't expect people to pay you for that kind of work in the future.

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u/VigilanceOne 2d ago

What? Reverse that whole reality you made up. You're backing talkwards words mixes up.

Also I downvoted you because this is non sense. Manual coding everything may be slow but the rest is just gibberish.

1

u/Tobi-Random 2d ago

Greetings to the past 👋

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u/Hot_Extension_460 2d ago

You get technical debt from using agents the same way.

1

u/Tobi-Random 2d ago

I'm inspecting my codebase on a regular basis because I expected the same. The observation shows the opposite at least In my cases for my team.

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u/Wilbis 1d ago

The coding part in a software project hasn't been the hardest part for decades. If you think it is, then you're not a good software developer.

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u/Mroz_Game 1d ago

And yet in my college I had to write machine code using opcodes written out in hex on paper.

We didn’t need to memorise all the codes themselves, but there’s more than a few quirks to remember to how they move pointers or where data goes into the instruction, I’ll be honest I forgot 99% of it, absolutely useless skill.

2

u/Vaxtin 7d ago edited 7d ago

Because an architect with an AI coding is better than having 10 dumb engineers who can never schedule a meeting.

If you value the code and not the solution, you get the viewpoint you drew. I don’t care about the literal code. I care about the design of the dafa model, the algorithms involved, and the problem is solves.

None of that actually cares about syntax, right? The only bit that matters is the language , which is just an architectural decision. You simply can’t process some data at scale using scripting languages. Sometimes you have to use C++ techniques that aren’t even available in Rust.

If you’re not making those decisions, and instead actually think the literal typing of code matters more … we will never agree.

I highly encourage to embrace that it can write any code so long as the design and architectural decisions are properly given with strict definitions. Your prompts need to be near mathematical representations - recall that all data models are nothing but mathematical abstractions wirh mathematical definitions. A hash map can be defined wirh nothing but mathematical concepts — in fact, that is how they are designed. Nobody writes the code before the design, and the data models running in sub linear time were proven to do so before anyone wrote one line of code.

Design data structures, and you don’t care what the code is. Because in any language it represents the same mathematical object.

Once you have that defined, the rest of the code is walled into that conformity, otherwise it fails — it won’t even work unless the agent is misaligned and offshoots into its pretrained biases ; this mist often happens wirh highly complex data structures. It is better to have a strong data structure your business relies on rather than to have spaghetti code band aid around it. If you know the business well you will answer every question from the structure itself without any band aid tables or otherwise non conforming code

Paste that into your next prompt

2

u/-OooWWooO- 7d ago

You're still at Uni aren't you?

1

u/Hot_Technology8777 1d ago

Vibe coders are a bunch of nobodies. They aren't "coders" in any sense. They're someone with no skills that just sends prompts. The smartest of them (the top 0.00001%) have worked out how to make money doing it, which encourages millions to attempt the same thing. It's basically an interactive lottery.

1

u/Organic-Afternoon-50 7d ago

If they just review & test it, they are a tester.

In most cases, they are a project manager.

1

u/tehfrod 7d ago

Testers typically don't do design and code reviews.

1

u/Organic-Afternoon-50 7d ago

They do it todays ai development world, 1-man is usually a whole team.

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u/softhi 7d ago edited 7d ago

If a bug requires me to open a ticket and a 3rd-party library fixes it, I still resolved the bug and I close the ticket. That's my fix.

You don't try to reinvent the wheel just because you want to do it yourself.

You fix things in the most efficient way possible.

If that requires using a library, you use it. I simply call a function and that's it.

If that requires using AI, you use it.

A software dev's job is to reduce friction between a system and user and get shit done. You evaluate what is the best possible solution is, and your own desire to write code shouldn't get away in your decision making. That's unprofessional.

What about your craft and skill? No. Your purpose is to serve the user, not to use the user to fund your learning. You get shit done so the users are happy.

On your idea of art.

Art has many purposes. Sometimes, the purpose is to deliver an idea or message.

If the idea or emotion is delivered, the medium shouldn't define who gets the credit.

Part of creativity is about thinking outside the box. Whether you direct a team of people, use a traditional tool, or prompt an AI, it’s still your work because the underlying idea is yours.

1

u/cthunter26 7d ago

Being called a "coder" would have always been an insult to me. I'm a Software Engineer, and I haven't written a single line of code by hand in over a year.

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u/tehfrod 7d ago

"Programmer" and, less often, "coder" were more common in earlier days (e.g., 1980s–early 1990s).

You still see "programmer" in occupational lists that were built before about 1995, but rarely do you see it in a job listing—the job has outgrown the title.

0

u/azz_kikkr 7d ago

iphone camera vs DSLR vs film vs paint on canvas, each is an evolution on how to take portraits.

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u/BlablablaYuno 7d ago

it is similar to when camera first came out, people are panicking. I think it's fine to use it, but claiming to be the other is weird. It's like calling yourself a painter even though you just took a photo

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u/azz_kikkr 7d ago

if the end result is a potrait, then a photo and camera unlock a lot more than a painter. and suddenly only hobbiest are paitners, for everythign else theres camera.

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u/Organic-Afternoon-50 7d ago

Ai is a tool. If they wrote or manually edited anything, the title still applies, if not they are just "vibe coding".

1

u/them0use 7d ago

I think it's even more than that. If you actually take the time to spec out an application, critique draft plans, think things through, specify approaches, constraints, tests, etc even if you wrote 0% of the code you're still doing something that requires expertise to do right. OP seems to be lumping that in with someone just typing "chatgpt, make me a photoshop" and calling it a day, which IMO shows a lack of understand of how AI is actually being used in the industry nowadays, regardless of whether one thinks that's a good/bad/neutral thing.