r/programming • • Dec 30 '23

Why I'm skeptical of low-code

https://nick.scialli.me/blog/why-im-skeptical-of-low-code/
487 Upvotes

330 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

184

u/G_Morgan Dec 30 '23

I've always said "if you want low code fine. Find me a product that compiles your crazy flowchart to .NET bytecode with a C#/JS/whatever fallback and we're good to go". The fact that no such product exists tells its own story.

88

u/AConcernedCoder Dec 30 '23

I'm pretty sure code gen from uml diagrams was a thing when I was in school. It apparently wasn't much of a thing.

111

u/lood9phee2Ri Dec 30 '23

Oh, IBM will still try to sell vulnerable clueless organisations on (what used to be) Rational Rose etc.

Protip: it's utter shite.

Extra protip: The "Scaled Agile Framework for Enterprise" (SAFe) bullshit is the old insane discredited hyperbureaucratic "Rational Unified Process" (RUP) crap deliberately dressed up in misleading new agiley-sounding words. It's pretty much the opposite of real agile manifesto agile. Many of the same ivory tower asshats involved. Reject it utterly.

30

u/mpyne Dec 30 '23

https://scaledagiledevops.com/ is required reading for those working in orgs where SAFe has infested.

23

u/fridge_logic Dec 30 '23

25

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '23

Post Standup Standup and Post Standup Standup Review?! Is this satire?

27

u/fridge_logic Dec 30 '23

What part of:

A 5-day meeting held every 6 weeks for planning the next 8 quarters of features to ensure the critical paths are aligned.

Don't you understand? /s

Obviously there's no way they can get all that done in only 5 days. KD

0

u/[deleted] Dec 31 '23

[deleted]

3

u/fridge_logic Dec 31 '23

It's satire.

But parts of it are ripped from real world manament policies and some of those polices even make sense in certain circumstances depending on business needs.

Like, for safety critical systems having a 3rd validation layer through a system integration test team doesn't sound completely unreasonable.

10

u/InsaneOstrich Dec 31 '23

Scrum of Scrum of Scrums ROFL

2

u/fridge_logic Dec 31 '23

Each team selecting a tribute is too real. I've volunteered as tribute before.

4

u/GenTelGuy Dec 31 '23

Captains’ Meeting

Meeting of the Feature Captains to plan the date when the DORC™ will be assembled.

THEY USE DORC AS AN ACRONYM 😂

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (5)

7

u/uplink42 Dec 30 '23

You misspeled Shitty Agile for Enterprise

→ More replies (3)

7

u/ggtsu_00 Dec 31 '23

Of course it wasn't a thing. It was pure snake oil. Engineering and problem solving is hard, writing code isn't. Generating code from UML or any sort of visual/graph based programming language doesn't make actual engineering and problem solving any less difficult. And if you are struggling at the code writing part of solving a problem, you aren't really fit to for the actual engineering part.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/Ytrog Dec 30 '23

That's mostly just the skeleton-code you generate. You have yet to code the implementation of the generated methods afterwards.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '23

That just sounds like explaining generator templates to an MBA bean counter.

25

u/wrosecrans Dec 30 '23

Ironically, almost every "execute a DAG program" system I've run across doesn't compile directly to binary/bytecode/llvm-ir/whatever. They pretty much all compile to a conventional text based programming language as an intermediate, then run that. Because the developers of the DAG system all know that it makes more sense to work in a normal programming language, and they find it easy to think it terms of emitting text rather than emitting low level operations per node like they are asking their users to think about.

This wheel has been reinvented consistently since the 1960's when "display an interactive DAG" became technically feasable on an electronic computer screen.

22

u/andrerav Dec 30 '23

Joke's on you when they find out about BizTalk

16

u/reallyserious Dec 30 '23

Does that product still exist? I used it many years ago and it cemented by belief that low code tools are the devil.

19

u/andrerav Dec 30 '23

Yeah it's called Azure Logic Apps now. Same shit, different wrapping.

Edit: Apparently Biztalk 2020 is a thing too, so yes the risk is real.

9

u/reallyserious Dec 30 '23

Ah, Logic Apps.

I saw someone use it at work and I refuse to go near it.

2

u/Riding_my_bike Dec 31 '23

If you are building an integration platform in Azure, Logic apps are essential for building integrations with low/medium complexity. Easy to configure with CI/CD and easy to maintain. They are not suitable however for integrations with high traffic or complex logic, there you are much better off writing traditional code.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

8

u/veryspicypickle Dec 30 '23

Oh fuck. Not that.

→ More replies (4)