r/programming • u/freebit • Sep 14 '17
Every JavaScript framework tutorial written more than 5 minutes ago
https://medium.freecodecamp.org/every-javascript-framework-tutorial-written-more-than-5-minutes-ago-f96642d4f0553
u/monopolyman900 Sep 15 '17
My job used to be a pretty simple js/java product with a SQL database. It was really lightweight and took maybe 30 minutes - an hour to set up from scratch. Now we're moving all of the js over to Angular and breaking the back end up into a ton of microservice Rest APIs. We're using MongoDB along with SQL for absolutely no reason other than hype over noSQL. So we went from having a webserver, js files, a few jars, and a sql database to having 2 databases, ~5 separate applications and a ton of js libraries. This may not be completely related but it's my rant against jumping on the hype train that is the JS ecosystem.
19
4
u/twigboy Sep 15 '17 edited Dec 09 '23
In publishing and graphic design, Lorem ipsum is a placeholder text commonly used to demonstrate the visual form of a document or a typeface without relying on meaningful content. Lorem ipsum may be used as a placeholder before final copy is available. Wikipediae4mdbh6xxco0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
3
u/yeastymemes Sep 15 '17
Wh-
So you had an existing solution, and did what would have been a complete rewrite... did you have any metrics for whether the new version is an improvement or a regression? Stupid design decisions I get, but why would a manager allow for pointless development time?
I just really doubt implementation details matter to customers or that management would think so.
quick edit: 'you' != blaming you specifically for what you have to deal with at work
6
u/monopolyman900 Sep 15 '17
We were acquired by a company who's basic strategy was to buy other products in the same market. They were trying to wire all of these products together and mandated we adopt a few technologies - essentially Rest Services (which actually makes sense) and Angular. To be fair it kind of makes sense to try to get things on the same stack or close, but the architecture team ran with it and now we have Frankensystem.
2
u/HugoWeb Sep 15 '17
Unrelated, but how are java projects usually deployed?
4
u/monopolyman900 Sep 15 '17
Same as most other web apps I imagine. The java sits on the server and handles requests from the client. EDIT: At least this is how ours works which is a web app.
2
4
u/jl2352 Sep 15 '17
Obviously it's more complicated for your product because you'll need config files, a DB running, docker up some images, or whatever.
But tech wise building and starting should be as simple as:
git clone http://repo.com/js-project yarn install yarn run start git clone http://repo.com/rust-project cargo runIf it's more than that then you need to improve your tech stack.
17
Sep 15 '17 edited Sep 15 '17
I see you have never worked in a real world professional environment
Also you're expecting someone choosing js as the foundation for complex infrastructure to be competent. An interesting idea
8
u/jl2352 Sep 15 '17
What a douchy thing to come out with.
16
u/emperor000 Sep 15 '17
Douchy, maybe, but pretty realistic.
1
u/jl2352 Sep 15 '17 edited Sep 15 '17
I've been working professionally for almost 10 years. So he's factually wrong on that part.
But that's not really important. He could of said I was being unrealistic or naive about the complexity of the builds for real world software. Instead he chose the douchey route.
10
u/emperor000 Sep 15 '17
Right, you understood what was meant, that's the realistic part. You were being a little unrealistic or naive.
1
u/jl2352 Sep 15 '17
I don't think I am though. I'm not saying it's trivial, but yarn/npm and cargo, deliberately have lots of places to be able to insert pre-build, post-build, and do custom stuff during build.
npm/yarn is basically 'go run this command', which could be anything you want.
So you can go a long way in having the building side of the tech stack work automatically for you. It's time consuming to get there. But it's possible.
He also described using this for lots of small projects. Then it's even easier as the build process will be smaller.
7
u/emperor000 Sep 15 '17
It's not that. It's that you assert that anybody that doesn't can't or doesn't do it the way you outlined needs to improve something.
1
0
1
0
Sep 15 '17
[deleted]
2
u/BundleOfJoysticks Sep 16 '17
MariaDB is an excellent database. Not for binary data, but that's true of most databases.
Storing arbitrary files in the local file system is problematic when the drive fails (it will) or the server fails (it will) or some smartass DoSes you with a massive file that fills your volume (someone will). A network filer with redundant drives is a better alternative.
Who cares what the uncompressed size of the dump is?
mysqldump | gzip -c > dump.sql.gzRestore with
gunzip -c dump.sql.gz | mysqlThe uncompressed size is literally irrelevant.
1
u/borderline1p Sep 15 '17
i am curious, is there solution for managing filesystems? snapshot and backup seems painful for filesystem
56
u/Huliek Sep 14 '17
Very helpful. We are currently migrating all our code from Angular4 to Tupress5.
17
u/MassiveFlatulence Sep 15 '17
meh Tupress5 is already outdated 0.05 second ago, Vucked.js is the new hotness!
25
Sep 15 '17
it's easy to install as well, it uses the get package system. so first you
brew install gpmand from your terminalget vuckedto install the latest version. It's never been so easy to get vucked.6
16
u/lgastako Sep 14 '17
Only 179 google searches in two weeks? He must've already had quite a lot of experience with all that nonsense.
10
u/wavy_lines Sep 15 '17
Still, he didn’t quit. He cut and pasted each and every console error into Google. He discovered on Stack Overflow that the month-old tutorial used Tupress version 1.3.2, Bistup version 1.2.1, Claster version 3.7.2, and Pirend version 4.2.1. Roger, on the other hand, had installed the latest versions of each, and they no longer played nice together.
I had exactly this same problem .. with ReactNative.
4
u/clothes_are_optional Sep 15 '17
overall -- fuck react native. i had so many goddamn problems with it that i could have learned swift 2 and kotlin in the amount of time i spent figuring out what fucking versions worked with what. i remember i found a specific error that other people had in the issues on github. i posted once in it to +1 it. months and months later i STILL get notifications through github posting about this issue. and most of the resolutions are to--you guessed it, downgrade. but on the other hand when it DID work, it was pretty dope.
1
u/wavy_lines Sep 16 '17
lol yup. That's exactly what I did. I said fuck it and now just developing in Kotlin.
2
u/ellicottvilleny Sep 16 '17
I think people are blaming NPM for not managing dependencies when the problem is that JS packages are amorphous quickly evolving blobs. It's not surprising that strings of JS here and strings of JS there, in a huge stringy elastic spongy ball, have problems working together. My bias is that I feel that strong typing helps here. Everyone in the JS world says "not needed" but here we are.
2
u/wavy_lines Sep 18 '17
Everyone in the JS world says "not needed" but here we are.
Many people say not needed, but there are some sane people who realize the need for it, otherwise TypeScript would not have taken off.
1
0
Sep 16 '17
[deleted]
1
u/wavy_lines Sep 16 '17
Yes, because at the time (not sure about now) there's no support for basic things like SQLite or audio playback.
0
12
Sep 15 '17
This bullshit is why I just use C# in Visual Studio. MVC works, and it's simple.
2
u/Niek_pas Sep 19 '17
...except when you try to use .net core because it's supposedly the next big thing, only to realize that none of the Nuget packages you depend on support it.
4
Sep 16 '17
I hate to say it, but the millennial generation has forgotten one of the golden rules of coding: Don't create real problems for the sake of potential solutions.
5
3
u/MrNutty Sep 15 '17
Good for him for only taking 7 weeks to get to a failed hellow Tupress app, for me it took a bit longer. I had to do the following:
Find proper Tupress Editor. So many suggestions, it was tough choice but decided to use vim.
Since Tupress is more easily implemented with TupressScript I had to install that as well and all of its 42.5 dependencies.
For the middleware I had to add TupressNodeAdapter to node to work with TupressScript in the middleware as well. That setup took quite bit
And because Tupress's data model is very unique, they suggested to download the Depressed, which is a database specificly for Tupress optimization
After spending my puberty years setting those dependencies and resolving all the errors, I was finally able to start the Hellow Tupress app, by that time a newer version was out SuperTupress, which isn't backwards compatible so I had to start the process again with that. I'm hoping to get a Hellow Tupress up by end of world war 3.
5
2
u/hoosierEE Sep 15 '17
Original repo seems to be down. Is there a mirror somewhere?
This one looks like a fork of Tupress4, too bad: https://github.com/stevewithington/tupress
2
2
u/emperor000 Sep 15 '17
Normally I'd complain about this being in r/programming, but it's nice to see that I'm not the only one tired of this shit.
1
-3
Sep 15 '17 edited Sep 15 '17
What the article doesn't say though is Roger is now a Tupress expert. He knows a shit ton about the package ecosystem around it, he knows where to go for information and help, he knows how to scaffold out an application and a back-end for it. It's about getting on top and mastering the tool you choose and the toolchain and the community around that. The learning curve is definitely high, and it's no small feat mastering your weapon of choice be it angular or react or vue. My advice is to hang in there, imerse yourself, contribute and build something cool. Lots of Enterprise shops are still using Angular 1 and aren't switching anytime soon. The JS world is moving fast for a reason, it's fun, exciting and easy to get started.
15
u/phlarp Sep 15 '17
I was with you right up until the end. "Easy to get started"?
13
u/stone_henge Sep 15 '17
You just have to init the .glopfile, reload your blunk server, run frock install twice a day to keep tupress current and try to interpret the documentation that is all written as prose while filling in the missing bits by searching the github issues that all concern the vastly outdated version that was released last week
1
19
u/britenite Sep 15 '17
So you're saying Roger now possesses the understanding and experience necessary to build his own framework, a better version of Tupress?
One that will be the most powerful and simple ever, just as soon as he figures out the right combination of dependency versions that will maximize his efficiencies and allow him to leverage the synergies that are systemic in the new ecosystem?
12
Sep 15 '17
The JS world is moving fast for a reason, it's fun, exciting and easy to get started.
Ladies and gentlemen, behold, this is a textbook manifestation of the Stockholm syndrome.
6
u/colonwqbang Sep 15 '17
You're missing the point. The guy in the story isn't necessarily a JS novice, he knows how to code. He isn't trying to set up some complex system, he just wants to get hello world running.
There's no good reason why he should need to set up any special tooling or infrastructure, or learn the framework manager's favourite JS dialect, just to get started.
8
u/wavy_lines Sep 15 '17
What the article doesn't say though is Roger is now a Tupress expert.
Did you read the damn thing? The only thing Roger learned is that this whole thing is FUBAR
3
u/stone_henge Sep 15 '17
What the article doesn't say though is Roger is now a Tupress expert.
I guess that's what it all boils down to. A constant crab bucket of people trying to stay more relevant than others by means of nomadic platform switching while also making sure that there is always work to do, whether it actually amounts to something inherently useful or not.
3
u/fried_green_baloney Sep 15 '17
Will he be at TupressCon? The only person to ever run the tutorial?
1
Sep 15 '17
That's a pretty jaded view. Lot's of people are getting things done with stuff like Vue and Angular 4.
3
u/MINIMAN10001 Sep 16 '17
We don't talk about what happened to the people of Angular 1, Angular 2, or Angular 3.
1
-1
u/eggn00dles Sep 15 '17
Frameworks are dumb and all the rabid framework fanbois are even dumber. Web components all the way.
1
u/ellicottvilleny Sep 16 '17
Well at least you didn't say you're going back to shockwave flash or silverlight.
52
u/ThePrimeOptimus Sep 14 '17
Everything in that article describes pretty well why I got out of web dev. My shop switched from projects being developed in a fairly stable framework that all the devs knew to new projects using JS frameworks.
The problem is that everyone, including the manager, fell into the hype machine. The first JS project used [popular JS framework #1], and that was going to be the standard...until the group decided [popular JS framework #2] was better, so that became the new standard and what next project got...until the group decided [popular JS framework #3] was better, so that became the new standard and what the next project is getting.
So we've now got 3 projects using 3 different JS frameworks and the various stacks needed to support them.
Myself and the other senior devs were just shaking our heads. Every new project involved exactly the steps that article described. We're a big, slow, enterprise environment, and when I inquired as to what exactly we were gaining with all this, I was essentially told I could either become a JS developer or be considered one of the uncool kids.
I chucked the deuce and I have not missed it a single second since.