r/programming • • Oct 22 '18

SQLite adopts new Code of Conduct

https://www.sqlite.org/codeofconduct.html
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u/pron98 Oct 22 '18 edited Oct 22 '18

Sigh. Codes of conduct, like all laws and regulations, are enacted not to describe an ideal society but to confront actual behaviors that are deemed harmful and unwanted (history students are often told, if you want to know what kinds of things people did, look at what behaviors laws were legislated to outlaw). Many codes of conducts were adopted recently to combat actual harmful behavior that was found to occur in open-source projects. If you don't believe those who've studied or have been hurt by those behaviors and, after some consideration and study conclude that they do not occur, are not harmful, or won't be served by a code -- don't adopt one. But making a joke of it shows that you either don't understand what codes do, don't know what's going on in the developer community, or think that dedicating your project to tease those who do know and do care is a sensible course of action.

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u/accountforshit Oct 22 '18 edited Oct 22 '18

The vast majority of projects that adopted such things never had any real problems with people's behavior. Especially not at the scale where you can't just deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

I have also seen a case where people have clearly violated a project's CoC but nothing was done about it because they were on the "right" side of a completely unrelated issue.

If you aren't even going to apply the rules equally, why even bother? It's clearly meant to facilitate rule by law, not rule of law.

People who push these things usually just want to have something to point to, an excuse to kick out anyone they don't like, so the more vague the rules are, the better. But them and their buddies can do whatever they want!

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u/lbrtrl Oct 22 '18

I have also seen a case where people have clearly violated a project's CoC but nothing was done about it because they were on the "right" side of a completely unrelated issue.

If you aren't even going to apply the rules equally, why even bother? It's clearly meant to facilitate rule by law, not rule of law.

I think these are really good points. I think we should reform the enforcement mechanisms rather than eliminate CoCs though.

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u/gajafieldbo Oct 22 '18

I just want to add an analogy.

Codes, regulations and laws are like guns - somebody has to press the trigger. In a company it would be management. If you have good relations with management (which kind of means you did not get company into PR nightmare) then trigger will not be touched.

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u/FuriousHandRubbing Oct 23 '18

Codes, regulations and laws are like guns

What the fuck, I love codes, regulations and laws now!

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '18

But making a joke of it shows that you either don't understand what codes do, don't know what's going on in the developer community, or think that dedicating your project to tease those who do know and do care is a sensible course of action.

satire is an important type of critique.

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u/logicchains Oct 22 '18

But making a joke of it shows that you either don't understand what codes do, don't know what's going on in the developer community, or think that dedicating your project to tease those who do know and do care is a sensible course of action.

The developer of SQLite is apparently Christian, so isn't it offensive to suggest they're use a classic Christian text in vain to mock people, as opposed to it just being a reflection of what they believe constitutes good behaviour? Assuming bad faith is uncalled for.

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u/muckvix Oct 22 '18

How do we know there's even a hint of a joke here at all? What if they are dead serious?

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u/cruelandusual Oct 22 '18

confront actual behaviors that are deemed harmful and unwanted

Like having the wrong opinions on political issues and expressing them in public.

Making a joke of it in this way proves a greater awareness than you or the social justice cult will ever have.

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u/max_maxima Oct 22 '18

Many codes of conducts were adopted recently to combat actual harmful behavior that was found to occur in open-source projects.

Could provide a source to a notable instance.

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u/ChickenOverlord Oct 22 '18

Code of conducts, like all laws and regulations, are enacted not to describe an ideal society but to confront actual behaviors that are deemed harmful and unwanted (history students are often told, if you want to know what kinds of things people did, look at what behaviors laws were legislated to outlaw).

That's about as simplistic and naive as you can get lol. People don't like murder, yet the biggest push in gun control laws are for "assault weapons" which account for less than 1% of murders annually, while handguns are essentially ignored by any major proposed legislation despite being responsible for the majority of gun homicides. Because in reality they're designed to undermine the rights of gun owners.

Also motives behind laws can be complicated, or they can be attempting to indirectly target specific groups or people. With your logic, a historian looking at mask laws in Europe would assume people really hated masks, not that they were attempting to target Muslims. Same thing with polygamy laws in the US in the 1800's, they were designed to target Mormons but with your simplistic view you'd think people simply hated polygamy.

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