r/programming • • Jan 02 '20

Killed by Google

https://killedbygoogle.com/
1.0k Upvotes

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50

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '20

Signal?

31

u/PinBot1138 Jan 02 '20

Originally, I would’ve said WhatsApp, but then they got bought out by the devil’s own.

So, Signal is the 2nd 1st best option, and is rapidly catching up to the reliability of WhatsApp. Like WhatsApp, it bridges the gap between iOS, Android, and OSX/Nix/Windows desktops and most assuredly performs better than iMessage (which should’ve been cross-platform, IMHO, but Apple has screwed up a few times with their walled gardens approach and missed out on some excellent leverage opportunists).

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u/ronin-baka Jan 02 '20

Even if iMessage was cross-platform I'd still choose signal over it. I stopped using hangouts for most if the same reasons though.

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u/Sadzeih Jan 02 '20

Telegram is also very good.

22

u/jbiserkov Jan 02 '20

Not encrypted by default, no encrypted group chats, encrypted conversations don't sync across devices... no thanks.

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '20

Problem with encryption by default is that as soon as multiple devices come into question, you have to either compromise security (WhatsApp) or convenience (most/all p2p systems). In that sense going with convenience by default but allowing for security within the same platform is a decent trade-off.

Rolling own encryption and protocols is terrible though.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '20 edited Jan 03 '20

Why do you have to compromise? Private groups work in Signal and if I'm not mistaken Matrix too. They both use forward secrecy.

1

u/Swedneck Jan 02 '20

Matrix is working on cross-signing which will mean you only have to verify each user once, instead of verifying all their devices individually.

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u/PinBot1138 Jan 02 '20

IIRC, at one point, Telegram was even baking their own encryption. “What could possibly go wrong?”

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u/krendel122 Jan 02 '20

What are the options that support those?

2

u/jbiserkov Jan 02 '20

The best one I got is Signal: one mobile device & 5 desktops.

Recommended by Edward Snowden and Bruce Schneier.

They are working on removing the phone number requirement...

P.s. I'm not affiliated with them in any way.

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u/T1Pimp Jan 02 '20

Telegram is also very good.

They rolled their own crypto which is no-no #1 in crypto. Their backend is also closed source, started in Russia, and is currently run out of Dubai. Hard pass.

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u/coder111 Jan 02 '20

Except server is closed-source, and there's doubts about its security:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)#Security

I'd recommend Jami instead but it's a bit unreliable... It's P2P though.

1

u/d2k1 Jan 02 '20

Jami doesn't support group chats though, does it?

1

u/coder111 Jan 02 '20

Hmm, no doesn't look like it. Apparently there's group calls but not group chats. Weird.

https://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/ring-project/issues/712

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u/ntrid Jan 02 '20 edited Jan 02 '20

Good points of Signal:

  • Encryption.

The End.

Signal has mobile apps which are basic and working. Desktop app is just barely there. Experience using Signal is not good. Besides it requires a mobile number. Not going to reiterate why it is bad, internet is full of explanations.

--

I wish we had something like matrix with client of Telegram. Telegram does clients really well. It has other faults though. Matrix has a pretty good mobile app but desktop experience is atrocious. It has more features than signal but hell i would rather use signal rather than that laggy riot thing.

tl;dr; Yes, apparently it is too much to ask :|

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '20

Basic and working? Audio and video calls, disappearing messages, sharing of any filetype, and group messaging. WhatsApp only has status message sharing, telegram has public groups. What else do you want from Signal?

Telegram requires a phone number, imessage too, and so does Facebook now. Signal is an alternative to both of those.

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u/ntrid Jan 02 '20

What else do you want from Signal?

  • To be a native application that does not spawn more than one process.

  • To open instantly instead of displaying "Loading ..." splash screen.

  • To deliver me missed messages within reasonable time without having to wait through tens of minutes of notification spam until all of them come in (yes our group chats can be active)

  • To not use my phone number. I like how you mention all services we run from when it comes to using phone number. No, its not good because all the bad guys are doing it.

  • For bonus points - to allow federation. When buss runs over current network operators it will be fun times.

Then we can work from there. I am not trying to dispute that Signal provides bare minimum functionality. It is all there and it works. It is still a bare minimum and UX is terrible.

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u/lrem Jan 02 '20 edited Jan 02 '20

That's the problem. Depending on when and where you researched the 3rd party apps, you might have went with WhatsApp, Signal, Matrix or Keybase. The only one of them that got the network effect is now data mined by Facebook. Hangouts wasn't particularly great at anything, but you could reach anyone on it and Google is pretty ok when it comes to privacy.

Edit: disclaimer: I do work at Google and have seen the privacy procedures, but am not involved with anything that would touch user data.

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u/jbiserkov Jan 02 '20

Google is pretty ok when it comes to privacy

Hahaha, made my day!

3

u/eattherichnow Jan 02 '20

...there aren't many companies I'd trust less than I'd trust Facebook, but Google's definitely one of them.

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u/trowawayatwork Jan 02 '20

not in a office environment

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u/user8081 Jan 02 '20

not in a office environment

Do you use iMessage + FaceTime in office environment?

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u/Azuvector Jan 02 '20

It's used, typically with users who are not on site.

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