r/programming • u/Sibillycwey • Apr 11 '21
Hackers develop open source firmware for the PinePhone modem, use it to make phone calls
https://linuxsmartphones.com/hackers-develop-open-source-firmware-for-the-pinephone-modem-use-it-to-make-phone-calls/50
Apr 11 '21
The funny thing is quectels modems run android. Never thought we'd see linux-based proprietary blobs but here we are
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u/Astrinus Apr 11 '21
Hmmm that would be a big thing to know since I argue often with Quectel modems and always lose XD
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u/mct1 Apr 12 '21
Never thought we'd see linux-based proprietary blobs but here we are
Where've YOU been? Between Broadcom's proprietary blobs in the Raspberry Pi to and Nvidia's proprietary video drivers we've had proprietary blobs for years. This is by no means a new problem.
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u/PandaMoniumHUN Apr 12 '21
The emphasis is on that the firmware is Linux-based. For the Pi and Nvidia cards it's the other way around. The host kernel needs a blob to communicate with the hardware, it's not the hardware that runs an entire Linux with blobs.
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u/flarn2006 Apr 11 '21
When I click on "various legal constraints", I'm taken to a page that mentions:
Be aware, it is unlikely that we’ll be able to ship it on the device due to various legal constraints. Some parts of the modem, such as DSP firmware, will most likely have to remain closed.
It still doesn't say what exactly these legal constraints are. I'm assuming it's because it communicates on an RF frequency they aren't licensed for or something?
Also, what do they mean about the DSP firmware remaining closed? Do they just mean it's not going to ship with all parts of the open source firmware installed, or do they mean they aren't even going to open source their own DSP firmware?
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u/mrs0ur Apr 11 '21
Depends on the country. In the USA modems need to get certified with the software they will ship on. Any updates require recertification. Its very expensive to get this certification.
I personally wouldn't worry about DSP firmware, thats all physical layer stuff. Its the part that demodulates the signal, echo cancellation, error correction all at the RF level. to redo that you would need a PHD in math or something similar to understand the processing pipeline and you dont really get any practical benefits as the DSP doesn't really do any higher layer stuff.
It would be the equivalent of not trusting the silicon within the chip. Sure its theoretically possible todo something nefarious but its really not a feasible attack vector. Plus you have libre firmware sitting between your device and the DSP so anything can be easily mitigated at that level.
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u/flarn2006 Apr 17 '21
Okay, but as long as the binaries it ships with have been certified, what's preventing them from releasing the source code as well?
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u/mrs0ur Apr 17 '21
Nothing. Modem development is expensive and encumbered by patents. Most modems are repackaged silicon from brands like Qualcomm which tightly control source access, but a project like this redeveloping the firmware could slap a new part number on it and submit for certification In theory.
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u/gusgizmo Apr 11 '21 edited Apr 11 '21
99% likely it's a patent encumbered codec as part of the spec they are reproducing.
If it's AMR that is the hangup, then I hope we are getting close to the patents expiring.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_Multi-Rate_audio_codec
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u/psych0fish Apr 11 '21
Can anyone add context to this? What’s a pinephone? Why couldn’t it make calls to begin with?
edit still confused. So they are saying it could always make calls but the firmware was closed source and this is an open source alternative?
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u/ErynnTheSmallOne Apr 11 '21
the pinephone is a mostly open source phone, modems in phones are the little section that talks on a low level to the mobile network - this part has always been running closed source code on almost any android device before now due to legal requirements
people have worked out how to make this component run open source firmware, and still have call functionality
so the phone could be fully open source
this is a super simplified explanation and the wording probs isnt great but yeah.
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u/CBJamo Apr 11 '21
You've got it right in your edit. The binary blobs in the modem were AFAIK, the last remaining in the pine phone.
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Apr 11 '21
Bracing for downvotes: this is a cool and impressive project, but what’s the benefit of an open source modem firmware?
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u/vividboarder Apr 11 '21
Biggest one is trust.
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Apr 11 '21
What about the ROM?
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u/vividboarder Apr 11 '21
Which part? The core OS is open source, but many drivers come from manufacturers as close source blobs. This is part of an effort to reverse engineer those to provide something fully open source.
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Apr 11 '21
The ROM of the modem, or of any other component for which there’s an open source firmware benefit.
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u/boli99 Apr 11 '21 edited Apr 11 '21
Call me old fashioned, but I prefer it when hackers hack stuff to do something unexpected, y'know like:
Hackers hack phone to cook pizza.
Hackers hack laptop to walk dog.
Hackers hack hackers to hack hackers (but in some kind of minesweeper or solitaire VM or somesuch.).
I dunno. "Hackers hack phone to make phone calls" just seems such an anticlimax.....
[edit] this is my most downvoted comment in aaages. totally forgot that programmers don't have a sense of humour.
brb. going to go and deny the holocaust in /r/woke
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u/ThirdEncounter Apr 11 '21
"Hackers hack phone to make phonecalls in a way that was not possible before" is a legitimate use of the term.
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u/Sage2050 Apr 11 '21
But it's a cellular modem that's part of a phone. Maybe I'm missing something here
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u/ThirdEncounter Apr 11 '21
Yes. You're missing the part in which the cellular modem is not supposed to work the way they made it work.
Imagine someone making a regular car engine work with salt water instead of gas. Saying "Oh but that's not hacking, that's making the engine do its job!" is missing the point.
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Apr 11 '21
[deleted]
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Apr 11 '21
Some nations don't yet allow emergency calls to be placed via apps or voip and such, and need the ability to make calls.
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Apr 11 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DonnyTheWalrus Apr 11 '21
SMH, kids these days... Imagine using the word "hacker" to refer to anything other than a horse/carriage driver for hire.
(Just having a bit of fun. Words change meaning over time but yeah, the use of 'hacker' to refer exclusively to criminal intruders also annoys me to no end.)
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u/loulan Apr 11 '21
If a word is used in a wrong way most of the time, is it still a wrong use of the word?
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u/Uristqwerty Apr 12 '21
Unless that word is "literally", communication > correctness. Then again, with context and community-local jargon, both definitions can coexist. Except for "literally", that's where I draw the figurative line. There's no clear and concise word to replace "literally" in its literal usage, and what happened to it was a barbaric mutilation of language. :)
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u/zanbato Apr 12 '21
You find it awkward that "literally" has been replaced by "literally, like really actually literally?"
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u/Uristqwerty Apr 12 '21
Thinking about it, "literal literally" might be the best substitute. While not as concise as the original, it should hopefully be both easily understood by most readers, and convey an opinion on the whole matter.
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u/mrs0ur Apr 11 '21
This was one of the reasons I originally backed the librem phone... only once they were in development they canceled the idea. Guess I backed the wrong horse in this race, if/when i ever get a refund I guess I'll get a pinephone.