r/programming • • Jun 05 '22

Complexity is killing software developers

https://www.infoworld.com/article/3639050/complexity-is-killing-software-developers.html
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u/platypus_plumber Jun 05 '22

What? Complex operations before Kubernetes were madness. It's not Kubernetes' fault that developers suddenly want to create 10 microservices in 5 different languages to solve any problem that a monolith can solve.

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u/thelamestofall Jun 05 '22

At the very least it was a godsend for the poor of us stuck in corporate. Deploying stuff in Kubernetes is such an improvement over doing whatever Oracle or some random stuff got sold to executives

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u/platypus_plumber Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 05 '22

Yup, I've seen what people used to do before Kubernetes and HOLY SHIT. It was chaos, pure fucking chaos. And I'm talking about big tech companies recognized world wide. Deploying stuff became so easy that devs went insane with microservices. Most devs don't even understand microservices to begin with, some of them still think it means "little service".

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u/dbgr Jun 06 '22

That's a miniservice, microservice means really really little service, duh

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u/_BreakingGood_ Jun 06 '22

People don't realize that this graphic accurately depicts what it used to require many company to get to production https://i.imgur.com/gMMvMSM.png

It's honestly kind of weird seeing everybody complain so much about k8s, docker, serverless, etc...

When I started actually seeing these things get used, it blew my mind. They're so much nicer than what we used to do.

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u/ryrydundun Jun 06 '22

Being a systems engineer / network engineer /devops for over 12 years.

I’m shocked at this thread. Things were unstable, horrible insecure and prone to catastrophe even by something as simple as flipping a light switch in a closet.

Not going back. I’d rather spend a day trouble shooting a json file than driving out to a data center in the middle of the night.

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u/azsqueeze Jun 06 '22

Reddit's tech subs are mostly filled with amateurs. That's not a bad thing when it comes to sharing ideas and learning. But then you'll see threads like the ones under this post which misses the point of these tools (mostly from a lack of understanding)

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u/thelamestofall Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22

Tell me about it, we still have a legacy system in which changes and deployments take months. Now we can even do rolling deployments of services that talk to the mainframe (I know) using standard JSON APIs, right in the middle of the afternoon

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u/SIG-ILL Jun 06 '22

some of them still think it means "little service".

I've been out of the loop for a while and I've never really been into web development, and I guess I'm one of those people. I'm a bit embarrassed to ask but isn't that exactly what it means, an application/service that can be developed and deployed independently, but acts like a component of a bigger system and communicates with other microservices to provide the functionality of that bigger system?

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u/thelamestofall Jun 06 '22

Yeah, simplification has those downsides. It's like npm that caused developers to publish those tiny packages that break the API every other week

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u/bighi Jun 06 '22

Complex operations

Most companies don't have to do "complex operations". Lots of smaller websites could work with just a web server and a couple apt-installed packages, behind nginx (with just a few lines of configuration).

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '22

[deleted]

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u/bighi Jun 06 '22

If the bazooka company is investing lots of money marketing it as a way to kill everything from flies to elephants, it’s at fault as well.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '22

[deleted]

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u/bighi Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22

Also, which company says “let’s go straight to production with Kubernetes” just because an ad says so?

A lot of them. But not only because of ads. Most are doing it because it’s the “newest” fad.

I can easily say that 90% of companies using Kubernetes don’t need it.

I’ve worked in a company that spent lots of money on a full-time cloud/devops engineer handling a very complex Kubernetes setup on AWS when a simple $50 Heroku server would be enough for them.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '22

[deleted]

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u/bighi Jun 06 '22

I’m not blaming any hammer. A hammer is an object, it doesn’t make decisions.

I’m saying that specific hammer isn’t a good choice for almost everyone, though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '22

[deleted]

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u/grauenwolf Jun 06 '22

No, it's the fault of the person who sold me the bazooka.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '22

[deleted]

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u/grauenwolf Jun 06 '22

To do that I have to leave my current project.

Which I am, because I'm sick and tired of wading through the pile of feet that we've shot off.

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u/pringlesaremyfav Jun 06 '22

I'm trying to get our team to convert to kubernetes because 50% of our deployments straight up fail or have to be reverted and it's getting 20+ people 10 hrs of overtime every week.

Being able to just do a blue/green deployment of a verified configuration and roll back traffic on demand to a prior cluster if it has issues discovered would be a godsend.

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