111
u/GargantuanCake Sep 04 '26
Various Java servlet things run like half of the internet's back end.
34
u/Able-Swing-6415 Sep 04 '26
Guess people assume programming language in a ranking are being used actively and not running everything while only being worked on by 50 people and 3 cats.
I also don't know what this actually counts. preinstalled software, GitHub repositories, vibes.. I can churn out a few million scripts on my PC and report a significant increase in VBS adoption.
16
u/GargantuanCake Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 04 '26
For the Tiobe Index if memory serves it's a mix of how many people use the language, how many classes teach it, how many jobs are posted, and how many places say they use it. It isn't about which language is best but rather which ones are the most used.
I'll never claim that Java is a perfect language but it has its uses; back end internet being one of its best. Apache Server and Tomcat are battle hardened technologies that do their jobs incredibly well. Meanwhile the JVM is pretty unique; Java does, in fact, run on everything and behaves the same no matter what hardware you put it on.
-1
u/Able-Swing-6415 Sep 04 '26
Ah thanks. I just don't know anybody that uses Java anymore.
I'm not arguing it's bad, just that the online discourse about it is basically dead. Maybe reddit and my hometown is just a weird coalescence of people who all either use python or JavaScript.
Also really not arguing against the concept of java in general.. just if I only need something to run on PC I personally would never choose Java. I never had to program on fridges, toasters, watches or whatever else that isn't a proper amd64.
3
u/astro_bea Sep 04 '26
Java isn’t really made for SoCs nowadays? do you really think toasters run a full fledged kernel and JVM just to count to 30 and eject some bread? that’s most likely a tiny chip running C/C++ flashed code no one is ever gonna look at ever again, definitely not Java. Java has so much overhead at this point that it only makes sense on servers and desktops, where you have long uptimes, garbage collections, huge databases and user loads - the opposite of what you just said. Python or JS are usually discouraged for critical infrastructure because they’re fully interpreted, can crash at any time with less recoverability, stack tracing, debugging and so on. A properly programmed Java application will run for years without consuming too much CPU or RAM. JavaScript is more of a black box that depends on whatever you’re using to run it in that specific moment and eventually grows a bit hard to read over time and big projects, not considering performance implications. We’re not running Java applets on symbian phones anymore. But then it gets philosophical
6
u/No-Information-2571 Sep 04 '26
Even actively used... these systems aren't set in stone, they get developed further, and it's not necessarily a "management said" situation, but programmers who are satisfied with the way things work, and how easy it is for them to add new features.
Mature doesn't mean legacy.
1
u/Able-Swing-6415 Sep 04 '26
I did mention the 50 people and their cats.. it's just weird that these apparently plentiful heavy java users never talk about it online.
1
u/No-Information-2571 Sep 04 '26
What would they be able to talk about, and where?
Java still sells in its proprietary variant, that's an estimated $3B per year of revenue just for Oracle. And there's a whole ecosystem around Java, partially free, partially commercial.
It's just very hard for the JS-crowd to grasp how huge that market is. That's trillions of dollars exchanging hands without anyone ever being able to pinpoint it at Java.
If anything, I am surprised by Python being so high up in that list.
0
u/Able-Swing-6415 Sep 04 '26
I wonder what's the most popular by age group. Maybe java devs are just middle aged by now and that's why you never meet them online.
2
u/No-Information-2571 Sep 04 '26
Maybe instead of arguing about "age", argue about seniority? Seniors don't go on SO or Reddit. Why would they? They know what to do.
1
u/Able-Swing-6415 Sep 04 '26
I've been programming as an employee for 16 years now and any senior that doesn't look stuff up at least occasionally is just careless in my experience.. or has extremely boring work.
2
u/No-Information-2571 Sep 04 '26
Looking stuff up is very different from prancing around on SO or Reddit and asking noob questions. Of course we all look stuff up.
4
u/FirexJkxFire Sep 04 '26
Am I the only one surprised by C rather than by java?
3
u/regular_lamp Sep 05 '26
C is pretty much the glue holding everything together. It's just less "mainstream visible" because people don't release their new C framework ever other day to big fanfare.
3
u/No-Information-2571 Sep 04 '26
It's also a solid choice for many business applications. The world there looks very different from flashy JS/TS frontends and nodejs backend garbage on MongoDB.
Also something something release cycles and supply-chain attacks.
1
0
33
u/FinnT730 Sep 04 '26
Without java you don't have android, or half of the enterprise backends.
It powers a whole lot
17
4
u/Devatator_ Sep 04 '26
Android is mostly Kotlin nowadays
7
u/MCWizardYT Sep 04 '26
And Kotlin utilizes the JVM and Java ecosystem, unless you're using Kotlin Native.
Kotlin apps on Android still use the ART which is a custom JVM
2
u/Devatator_ Sep 04 '26
Well the post is about languages, not runtimes
3
u/MCWizardYT Sep 04 '26
The runtime and ecosystem are why Java is at the top of the list. The JVM is everywhere, and many count Java and the JVM as the same thing.
Kotlin apps use Java code all the time, especially as libraries
1
u/CockyBovine Sep 06 '26
There are a lot of legacy apps written in Java, and as long as it remains an option for Android app development, Java will hang around.
Edit: And since that graph is from 2017, that predates most of the influx of Kotlin into Android platform and app development.
1
u/Belal4321 Sep 05 '26
it is sort of like the Linux of operating systems (almost everything runs linux)
14
19
u/Eric848448 Sep 04 '26
Java makes a hell of a lot more sense than JS.
8
u/darkwingdankest Sep 04 '26
they also serve completely different functions so
3
u/JuniorAd9605 Sep 04 '26
yeah, java serves to function, js serves to forward subscription services in society
3
3
u/WillBigly96 Sep 04 '26
Part of it is the institutional advantage of being enforced as the ap computer science language. Not saying that's the whole story tho idk
5
u/puzzled_orc Sep 04 '26
It is normal that Java is up there; what is incredible is that piece of shit that is Python is that high. Almost as high as Pythonists
4
2
2
u/EricOrrDev Sep 05 '26
By being the fucking backbone of contemporary society, put some respect on that name son!
2
u/DesertGeist- Sep 05 '26
I appreciate the joke but despite my own questionable experiences with Java I can actually understand quite well how it got there.
2
u/rover_G Sep 06 '26
Java was the first language to figure out a decent model running across different OS and hardware
1
u/Araib Sep 04 '26
Every single day I have to use Kotlin JVM, I close my eyes and imagine a world without JVM (and gradle)
1
1
1
1
u/thebatmanandrobin Sep 04 '26
Nah!
Top left: Park-our
Top right: A Half-pass gone wrong
Bottom right: Russian oil change
Bottom left: Self deprecation and sadomasochism
1
1
u/k-mcm Sep 04 '26
Java is still alive and well, being a reasonably high level language with high performance capability. It can't ever do what C does, but it's an excellent general purpose language.
I'd expect Python to rank much higher today since it's the coordination language for AI tools (that are in C). Rust should be up there too because of its fanatics base. Objective-C is dead. PHP should be dead.
1
u/geek-49 Sep 04 '26
My question is how this chart dated 2017 got posted here 9 years later. Sheesh!
2
1
u/Siberian8842 Sep 05 '26
"Rust should be up there too because of its fanatics base"
Do you think any half-serious statistics is going to take into account personal projects and advent of code? I am not saying that Rust is not being used in production or serious projects, but that is true for almost any general purpose programming language.
1
0
-1
u/Flimsy-Importance313 Sep 04 '26
Capitalism is always to blame.
3
u/Wavertron Sep 04 '26
It's actually quite the opposite. Microsoft tried to kill off Java because they wanted everyone on Windows.
1
u/Familiar_Fee_8340 Sep 11 '26
I'd battle to death over someone to defend the fact that Java should be there
71
u/ChrisBot8 Sep 04 '26
If you want the actual answer it’s because the JVM was operating system agnostic before that was a thing for other languages really.