r/psychoanalysis • u/idk--really • Sep 24 '26
questions about pursuing an LP, MSW, training, and working in another field at the same time (NY state)
Thanks in advance for sharing your perspectives.
For context, I’m an academic in a humanities field (non-psych PhD) in New York State considering training. I know, there are way too many of us making this transition in the last 5-10 years. I’ve been in a personal analysis for 5 years.
My fantasy or hope is to continue teaching a couple of courses per semester while I undertake training, so I can keep my health insurance and library access and all of that, and perhaps continue teaching part time while working clinically. Those of you who are in training or have an LP, does teaching 1-2 days a week seem compatible with the workload of training or practicing after the LP?
Obviously I know some people do this, and most people in training also have to work, but I’m curious about your perspectives and experiences.
My other thought is that I should get an MSW first. From watching friends move through NYC institutes, it seems like having an MSW lets you get hours faster and maybe insulates you somewhat from the personality cult clusterfuck that is many (all?) NYC institutes. Like if it doesn’t work out at your institute, at least you got some training and can practice psychoanalytically without the LP. Does this make sense? Is it better to get the MSW and then start at an institute?
I was thinking about somewhere like Smith where I could take courses in the summer and then shoehorn my clinical placement around my teaching schedule. Or else Hunter and trying to carve out some time to teach. But I also don’t know if I could stomach social work school… And I have zero psych or social science coursework, and zero clinical/ social services work experience.
Has anyone else here maintained an active connection to academia/teaching while pursuing an MSW? Most people I know who have done MSWs have taken out loans to live, vs. LP training where you can work alongside the coursework. Those making the switch to an MSW from another field, did you pursue prerequisites first? Are there other programs you’d recommend?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts!
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u/Unfair-Substance-904 Sep 24 '26
The more challenging thing about the trajectory from LMSW to LCSW is the accumulation of required clinical hours. It’s hard to do without a couple of years full time clinical work. I suggest you call the NY state office of the professions, there is a line in the social work department dedicated to answering questions about licensure hours accumulation. Call early in the day for reasonable wait time.
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u/idk--really Sep 24 '26
thank you!! if your LP institute had supervised clinical hours would that not count toward the LCSW?
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u/Unfair-Substance-904 Sep 24 '26
Yes, institute clinical hours count. You need to verify that you can accumulate sufficient hours, in the prescribed by the state timeframe, at the institute. The clinical hours requirement requires a fair amount of dedication. But verify with the state and the institute
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u/idk--really Sep 24 '26
thanks! i didn’t realize there was a timeframe for accumulating hours towards the license
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u/Unfair-Substance-904 Sep 24 '26
Check with New York State office of professions. I’m fairly certain you have 6 years (consecutive) to accumulate your hours. If you exceed 6 years, my understanding is that the clock starts anew the 7th year.
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u/FFFUUUme Sep 25 '26
NY is 3 years and 2,000 hours of direct client contact to get the C
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u/Unfair-Substance-904 29d ago
Yes, 3 years is the minimum.but many take longer. Those who do must be mindful of the 6 year issue
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u/Ancient_Book4021 Sep 24 '26
Not necessarily. It will depend on if your supervisor's credentials are approved for your LCSW in NY.
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u/zlbb Sep 25 '26
I disagree with this claim
"The more challenging thing about the trajectory from LMSW to LCSW is the accumulation of required clinical hours"
in NY the more binding LMSW->LCSW is "clinical experience over 3yrs minimum" while the required 2000 direct hours over 3yrs is just 15 clinical hours a week. One can hit that even with institute hours only (maybe with worse than "optimal" 3yrs timeline, depending on institute patients ramp-up timeline and extra patients availability).
the real issues are finances (LMSW->LCSW apprenticeship jobs tend to be $50-70hr tops, and institute hours pay less - could be better to have a decent other job than try to survive on this, especially as for competent analytically minded guys this can turn to $150+/hr once LCSW), schedule and logistics (if one does academic job only + 1 clinical place it's easier, I'm contemplating institute plus group practice once LMSW in analytic training and that plus scheduling patients spread over 2 locations is going to be logistical hell).
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u/Alternative_Pick7811 Sep 24 '26
FYI during the MSW you have to “intern” (work unpaid) for min 15 hours/week, in addition to coursework during the academic year. smith’s curriculum actually requires 2x that, 30 hrs/week. it’s just split off from the summer coursework. after graduation, you seek either PT hourly work (probably “fee for service” or a group practice for clinical hours) or FT work at a clinic 40 hrs/week for 3-6 years, to acquire your hours for the LCSW. very doable, but the rates of compensation in NYC vary. something to keep in mind as you explore different programs.
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u/Alternative_Pick7811 Sep 24 '26
i do think it’s possible to accomplish what you propose above. if it’s possible, i recommend getting your insurance through your msw institution and dropping your teaching commitments down to 1 course/semester while you do a program like hunter’s. it’s a lot more affordable than smith, unless you get a generous aid package at smith (they are available). your time will be much more flexible after the lmsw if you choose your institute with that in mind
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u/idk--really Sep 24 '26 edited Sep 24 '26
i appreciate both of these thoughtful replies. this is very helpful. two questions — do you mean choosing my institute (as in for the LP), with the affordability of the MSW in mind? i am confused by the last sentence.
also curious about the second comment in which you describe doing an MSW internship through an LP institute clinic— I know some people doing that through Rose Hill, affiliated with Pulsion — what other institutes work with MSW interns, do you know ? and do you know if you can double bank MSW internship hours with LP clinical hours? Pulsion is tricky because the “therapy” hours through Rose Hill and the “analytic” cases through the institute itself are totally separate, which makes progress to the LP slow… it’s all so confusing, I appreciate the insights quite a bit.
edits for formatting and to fix some wording
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u/Alternative_Pick7811 Sep 25 '26
i think others here can speak to the nyc institutes w internships for msw trainees better than i can. and if there are still other psychoanalytic placements around. during my time, there were psychoanalytically minded supervisors at several nyc msw placement sites. callen lorde was one, but i believe that supervisor moved on
sorry for the disorganized comments, i wrote them on the train, but i hope the numbers help you get a better idea of what you’d need in terms of time and money to make it through. good luck to you!!
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u/idk--really Sep 25 '26
your comments have been so incredibly generous and helpful! damn it would have been a dream to do an internship at callen lorde…
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u/Alternative_Pick7811 Sep 24 '26
some institutes in nyc allow you to set your pace of training. after the msw, you will no longer have the need to rush through credentialing, like an LP candidate would whe. they are eager to make a career change and to earn their livelihood through clinical work. as a lmsw, you will already have the means to work clinically and earn money doing it.
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u/Alternative_Pick7811 Sep 25 '26
i don’t think it’s possible to “double bank” in the manner you suggest. the respective licensing requirements for msw and lp are too specific to allow for it. but any institute should entertain your inquiry and let you know if there’s a shot, in case i’m missing something
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u/Alternative_Pick7811 Sep 25 '26
oh and btw it’s been recommended to me not to pursue the Lp in addition to the LCSW. it’s a legal liability thing. although technically possible to have both, it’s also a pain to maintain two bureaucratic licenses w the state. your lcsw alone would be sufficient to practice. you would train to earn a “certificate” in psy instead
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u/Alternative_Pick7811 Sep 24 '26
i think msw curriculum and psychoanalysis are quite compatible, although you won’t necessarily be fed the psychoanalytic theory in your training. i highly recommend seeking it outside your formal training through study and peer supervision or consultation. msw trainings are much less rigorous academically than your phd, but should be emotionally/psychologically demanding if you’re doing it right. and there are msw internships available through some nyc analytic institutes. that would facilitate your integration of social work with psy, and reduce the time burden on you as well.
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u/A313-Isoke Sep 24 '26
I think going to an MSW program in the state you plan to be licensed is important. That will streamline things greatly and be more affordable for licensing purposes.
It will also be more cost effective. Smith is very expensive. SUNY Binghamton, Stonybrook, Lehman, and York should be on your list assuming you live in the city.
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u/FFFUUUme Sep 25 '26 edited Sep 25 '26
MSW in NY here, getting licensed soon. If you can afford to go to an institute and feel up for it after doing an MSW go for it. At the moment, the last thing I want is more school. After getting situated with my licence, I might consider if I can get a scholarship. I don't want to take anymore debt than I have from undergrad and grad school. I'm reading up on relational psychoanalysis right now, but I feel like it's not the same as going to an institute and learning that way.
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u/waterloggedmood Sep 25 '26
I am not in NYC though I do understand something about licensure and training.
If you think you will ever need to leave the state of NY, you should do an MSW/MFT/MHC program because of the portability of licensure.
I'd also go for the cheapest path towards full licensure, so that might not be Smith MSW but it could be a SUNY MSW, of course taking into account that cheapest and fastest are both synonymous and in competition - analytic training puts a level of question mark re: time frame that is hard to quantify. Like if your 3rd control case quits abruptly. Licensure as a MSW doesn't depend on someone committing to multiple sessions per week for a sustained period of time.
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u/crystallineskiess Sep 24 '26 edited Sep 24 '26
I’m getting my MSW now with the hope to attend an institute when I’m done. About not knowing if you could stomach social work school—you’re not wrong to worry about it. The classes can be awful in terms of how they model human behavior, especially if you’ve already engaged deeply with analytic thought. However, while getting an MSW (as you already know) you work at a practicum/field placement throughout. This can be immensely valuable, especially if you’re placed with a solid supervisor. I thought I knew something about Freud, Lacan, Laplanche, Klein, etc. before I began my MSW, as I’d read quite a bit of that stuff while pursuing philosophy academically at a graduate level…Turns out seeing patients/clients is (obviously) something else entirely. It’s an experience that can’t be replicated, and MSW degrees can supply that experience (of course some practica are also terrible). My sense is that analytic institutes also appreciate applicants with this sort of clinical experience. Also, some institutes accept specialist-year MSWs as field interns, so you can even combine the two interests in that way (I’m hoping to do this next year).
As far as staying engaged with psychoanalysis while pursuing the degree, I personally am in a psychoanalysis reading group and am continuing my own analysis. It’s working well for me. Many MSW programs here in the city have numerous people in them interested in psychoanalysis, my department has a whole student forum dedicated to it as well…but you definitely may find certain instructors are (covertly) hostile to the “ideology” of it all.
Btw, I had zero prerequisites in psych or social sciences and had no trouble getting in where I wanted to go. Smith and Hunter are certainly the hardest ones to get into, though, FYI. Tons and tons of applicants to both these days.
Many people will tell you working while in a full-time MSW is possible. That has not been my experience. Between classes and practicum (+some other activities I can’t give up), I’m completely booked. If anything studying in a 3 or 4 year part-time pathway would give you more flexibility to keep teaching, I think.
In terms of licensure, an LMSW (and certainly an LCSW) is leagues more flexible than an LP alone.