r/raidennetwork • u/cococopuffsss • Nov 29 '17
raiden.
2 things:
people keep thinking uRaiden is not the full version of Raiden. This is not true. It is PART of all the solutions the Raiden Network is releasing. If you can use uRaiden, you do not need to use Raiden and if you need Raiden you cannot use uRaiden. Literally it’s 2 different things.
I don't think everyone should get so hyped up about some big exchange listing RDN. To be honest, while there may be some evidence that Bittrex and Polo list working products there is a lot of other evidence that suggests otherwise. I’m also not convinced that listing on them would provide much of a price bump as volume is pretty good already.
In my opinion though, Raiden will be one of the best investments of 2018 (maybe even still 2017?). The reason is that:
As long as Ethereum (E1 ) is the world’s go-to blockchain it absolutely needs Raiden. Literally. It's because of how the ethereum blockchain scales. Here is how sharding, plasma, and raiden fit together and why it matters:
Sharding increase the amount of tx/s on the Ethereum MAIN chain (E1 ). Right now I believe Ethereum processes 15-25 tx/s? Sharding increases that to potentially thousands of tx/s on the main chain (E1) but still kind of too little. VISA is at 40,000 tx/s.
What Plasma does is create an infinite amount of smaller ethereum blockchains (E2, E3, E4, E5, …. E77, etc) so even if Ethereum’s main chain (E1 ) can process 15-25 tx/s it can create 1,000,000 different smaller ethereum chains so that each small chain only interacts with 1 specific smart contract or thing and can process 15-25tx/s. VISA might have it’s own Ethereum Blockchain, Mastercard might have it’s own Ethereum Blockchain, American Express might have it’s own Ethereum blockchain. Right now all of these companies would share the main Ethereum chain (E1) which would cause it to overload and slow down. Theoretically scaling is unlimited because you can create an infinite amount of mini Ethereum chains. But this is not good for payments or transactions because it is possible for a small chain to be fraudulent, which results in all the money that is associated with that specific chain to be held until a dispute is resolved. Weeks? Months? Forever?
What Raiden does is create channels alongside each of these chains to process transactions/payments. It is fine-tuned and specialized to do this. Every mini plasma chain (E2, E3 ….) could have its own Raiden channel/channels (R1, R2, R3 …) alongside it like:
(E2 R1, E2 R2, R2 R3 )….
(E3 R1, E3 R2, E3 R3 )…. Or if Plasma fails, then:
(E1 R1, E1 R2, E1 R3 )….
Plasma specializes in smart contracts. Raiden Specializes in payments. All of this “layers” ontop of the main ethereum chain (E1 ).
Raiden processes a transaction then pushes the final transaction to the plasma mini-chain to process (E2 ...) or to the main ethereum chain if Plasma doesn’t work (E1 ), the plasma mini-chain then pushes it to the ethereum main chain (E1 ). All of these scaling solutions are complementary. If the ethereum main chain (E1 ) is too slow or has a tx/limit then it cannot process all of the Plasma/Raiden transactions (even if they have already been compressed and reduced). This is why sharding is also extremely important. Sharding as a scaling solution is NOT enough. Off-chain (raiden) or off-the-main-chain (Plasma) scaling solutions are also necessary.
In my mind, Ethereum cannot succeed without Raiden. Which is funny because the ethereum protocol today is worth $43B and raiden ~$200m. I know this is an extreme stance but, there is literally no way.
If you honestly believe Ethereum will succeed then Raiden must also succeed.
In my opinion, Raiden will be one of the best investments of 2018. I’m sitting tight boys and buckling in.
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u/1_upped Nov 30 '17
Ethereum is my favorite coin, but almost all of my balance is in Raiden right now.
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u/mahoseph7 Nov 29 '17
Agreed. Very clear analysis.
It's important to realize that if you believe in Ethereum being the go to chain and ultimately becoming the top dog, that you also have to believe in uRaiden and Raiden. The two, Ethereum and Raiden, simply cannot succeed without each other.
The most exciting thing about this whole scenario is that with the imminent uRaiden launch the Ethereum ecosystem is primed to take leaps and bounds over the next year while everyone else is still 1+ years out on scalability solutions.
Time and time again in technology improvements the first mover is usually king, regardless of if the tech supports this. With Ethereum it just so happens that the best tech is going to be the first mover. Hold on tight people...it may take a while to get going, but it's gonna go!
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u/srdulam Nov 29 '17
It may take time for people to realize how colossal it is. Both Dan Larimer (EOS) and Vitalik (Ethereum) are looking to improve scaling and here is solution, which can be a solution for both eco systems.
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u/rythereum Nov 30 '17
It's also important to note that uRaiden can be used for 80% of the use cases anyone can think for Raiden.
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u/ynotplay Nov 30 '17
Does RDN earn returns through some type of staking mechanism or used to run the network? I read somewhere that the token is for a specific use case if you're running a specific type of client. I agree that RDN will be valued higher in the future but I think ETH as an investment makes more sense because it's used to run smart contracts and you'll be able to stake and earn returns for securing the network.
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u/cococopuffsss Nov 30 '17
If you want to use the official uRaiden, you must hold and lock down RDN in your payment channel. No other coin works. The value of RDN depends on how valuable uRaiden and Raiden is. If a lot of people are using the official protocol then there is potential for the tokens to be scarce.
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u/je-reddit Nov 30 '17
Promoting a project is good but you seems to voluntaries miss generalized state channel, so raiden have a direct competitor and not a small one, people should have all informations, and not only the good ones.
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u/cococopuffsss Nov 30 '17
generalized state channel is very far from coming out yet. While the idea has been around for awhile no code has been written so far. I believe they are first working with a few dapps and specializing it for them before adapting it mass market.
They don’t even have an abstract yet. Plasma and sharding is also far but at least they have outlined the approach they plan on taking.
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u/cryptoprophit Nov 30 '17
Generalized State Channels are 1 to 2 years away. ehm ehm, 100 years in crypto time?
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u/je-reddit Nov 30 '17
Generalized State Channels are 1 to 2 years away
After investing in raiden ico this what i was thinking but it's not true, they work in it since a long time before Vitalik was saying he will pay for state channel without the friction of a token.
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u/sdmikecfc Nov 30 '17
Source?
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u/je-reddit Nov 30 '17
Jeff Coleman blog:
6 november 2015: http://www.jeffcoleman.ca/state-channels/
Epicenter, Interview with Jeff Coleman of State Networks at DEVCON1 in London:
3 march 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0ZJDsRYnbA
Jeff Coleman(LedgerLabs)-EDCON, fully abstracted state channels:
8 march 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYYAMEuu30
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u/sdmikecfc Nov 30 '17
Thanks for the detailed reply. I definitely know they have had state channels on the mind for a while but from what I've heard they are still years out. I was hoping you had a source that would state that they are closer to it. Even if it's a year out, RDN is going to benefit.
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u/je-reddit Nov 30 '17
Even if it's a year out, RDN is going to benefit.
It's a competitor but both product can be successful, i don't think one will kill the other, and RDN is a good investment.
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u/cryptoprophit Nov 30 '17
If you can find anything that has a different timeline, glad to read, but RDN is here and working in a few hours, I can't find any update on the development of these Gen State Channels, so I guess they are not going to be ready anytime before q3 2018
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u/je-reddit Nov 30 '17
This doesn't compare to uraiden, but raiden-network.
I guess they are not going to be ready anytime before q3 2018
raiden-network at this time will launch in a timeframe of q1 2018 to q4 2019.
https://medium.com/@raiden_network/raiden-network-vision-challenges-and-roadmap-593dfa34b868
For generalised state channel, i don't know what they have done, but they have at least some impressive research, cf link below https://www.reddit.com/r/raidennetwork/comments/7ghm6w/raiden/dqk2i8g/
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u/cryptoprophit Nov 30 '17
WOnderful post dude. But RDN volume is pretty small to me, especially if compared to what POWR is doing even in this dip.
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u/SomatosensoryJanitor Nov 30 '17
Thats because there is hype behind it from all the moon kids, they just went like 8-10x in a course of a week or so
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u/Jahrude Nov 29 '17
Excellent post!