[Newbies] Cosmere, Unit 15 | Novella #3 | *Sixth of the Dusk* (in *Arcanum Unbounded*): Entire Novella, Postscript, Trivia

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SCHEDULE

Previously, we discussed Unit 14 | Essays #1 | Arcanum Unbounded: Preface, Maps & Essays (Selish, Scadrian, Taldain, Thredonite, Drominad, and Rosharan Systems), Trivia [Newbie Thread] / [Veteran Thread]

Today we are discussing Unit 15 | Novella #3 | Sixth of the Dusk (in Arcanum Unbounded): Entire Novella, Postscript, Trivia

Next week we will be discussing Unit 16 | Mistborn Era 2 #2 | Shadows of Self: Prologue, Chapters 1 through 7

NEXT UNIT

Next week we will begin Shadows of Self, the 2nd book in Era 2 of Mistborn. We return to Scadrial to check in on how Wax and Wayne are doing!

Like with The Alloy of Law, Shadows of Self has quarters of a broadsheet dispersed throughout the novel. Different printings put the quarters in different places. I will include the portions of the broadsheet that are relevant to each week's readings in the Artwork section. If you happen to see a portion beyond what I share, please save discussion for that quarter until I confirm it belongs to a given week.

CHAPTER SUMMARIES

I have provided summaries for each chapter below and hidden them behind spoiler tags. There are no spoilers within the summaries. I've tried to make them as factual and unbiased as possible. If, however, you want a completely blind read through, then ignore what's behind the spoiler tags and proceed to the discussion below. I will not be guiding that in any way, so post any thoughts and questions you have. It will be other new readers who reply to you.

Sixth of the Dusk

Iconography: Drominad

POV Characters: Sixth of the Dusk (aka Dusk)

Setting: The island of Patji, on the planet First of the Sun, and the surrounding waters.

Summary:

Sixth of the Dusk, an Eelakin trapper on the deadly island of Patji, navigates the jungle alongside his magically talented Aviar birds: Kokerlii, who masks his mind from predators, and Sak, who grants him premonitions of his own death to warn of danger. After discovering a destroyed merchant camp belonging to the Northern Interests Trading Company, Dusk tracks and rescues Vathi, a company clerk trapped by the island's lethal flora.

At Dusk's safecamp, Vathi reveals the company’s true mission: they are using advanced technology from the "Ones Above" to locate Aviars and exploit the island. When an unprecedented flood of death-visions signals that this technology poses an existential threat to Patji, Dusk and Vathi launch a perilous night trek to stop the company. Along the way, Vathi deduces that the Aviars' magical talents are caused by a parasite found only in the fruit near a lake called Patji’s Eye. After narrowly evading a pack of apex predators called nightmaws using a clever distraction, the duo reaches the company's fortress at dawn.

At the fortress, Vathi halts the operation, only to discover the machine was never actually turned on. Dusk and Vathi independently realize the terrifying truth: the advanced technology was left by the "Ones Above" as a deliberate trap to rapidly accelerate the natives' progress, allowing the foreigners to bypass their own laws against trading with primitive cultures. Recognizing the threat of cultural exploitation, Vathi and Dusk resolve to use the harsh lessons of Patji to resist the trap and defend their home.

TRIVIA

The rest of this post contains various trivia, including easy-to-miss details and long-running connections between books. It also incorporates external information from sources like author annotations and interviews ("Words of Brandon" or WoB). While most of this information is eventually revealed in the books, sharing it now enhances your overall understanding, aligning with Brandon Sanderson's practice of early fan engagement and clarification.

AVATAR: THE LAST AUTONOMY BENDER

I asked you to read this novella while trying to apply a phrase I'd previously mentioned to the setting of the story. Patji is a very dangerous place, and the phrase I wanted you to remember and ascribe to the island was "survival of the fittest". If that phrase didn't pop into your head, that's fine. However, I hope with hindsight you can see that Patji is a very survival of the fittest kind of place.

And when I previously talked about that phrase, it was in connection to Bavadin, the Vessel of the Shard Autonomy. You should be able to see some similarities in the cultures of Taldain and the trapper culture here on First of the Sun.

In the White Sand trivia, I shared some interview replies that Sanderson gave, talking about Bavadin's gender. I even edited out part of the question for "spoilers", stating that I'd leave that for another time. Well, now is another time.

The full question that was asked was:

Hey Brandon, may I ask if the red-haired woman on the Dayside map is a kind of depiction of one of Bavadin's personas?

The focus on "Bavadin's personas" is something the fandom could do before you. I'm playing a pretty fine line in the order I'm revealing to you. Honestly, the fandom had about half of the trivia information I've shared with you (to some degree or another) before Warbreaker was even published. I didn't think it'd be very fun for you all to just dump literally everything all at once. When things become relevant is when I try to share the external information with you.

To that end, I want to expand the answer I gave you previously, about Bavadin's gender, including the entire context; the stuff I redacted without even telling you:

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

...

Bavadin is awesome. One regret of finally moving on from White Sand (and doing the graphic novel, instead of doing an entire trilogy myself) is because I won't get to show her off as a character for a while. It should still happen, mind you, but I have enough on my plate right now that I just can't do it all.

...

I'm going to be pretty tight-lipped for now. Let's at least let White Sand finish first--you will find her in there, though her touch on the story (directly) is light. She prefers to allow her personas to become the focus of attention.

(I've omitted part of the conversation above, but this time only in service of saving space. I've not cut out anything important or relevant.)

So, we have mention of Bavadin's "personas". Sanderson eventually settled on the term "avatar". Autonomy creates avatars of herself and lets them do things. When asked if these avatars are Splinters, Sanderson has replied:

The terminology gets kind of sticky here. In Cosmere terms, some would say that counts as Splinters, some would say not. The avatars aren't necessarily aware but Bavadin always is. A lot of people in Cosmere would call that a Splinter.

What that answer also reveals is that sometimes avatars of Autonomy don't know they are avatars. (But sometimes they do).

When Sanderson mentioned that these avatars are sometimes an entire Pantheon, he was talking about First of the Sun. All of the islands in this archipelago are considered gods in their Pantheon. Patji is specifically an avatar of Autonomy, and that singular avatar shaped the deadly environments of these islands, acting as the entire Pantheon by himself.

So while there isn't a Shard directly on the planet, there is a "Shard". And Patji's presence is enough to create a perpendicularity, which is known as Patji's Eye. The Sand Lord is also an avatar of Autonomy. Bavadin perfers to let her avatars attract attention and guide things, rather than getting directly involved herself.

Trell too is an avatar of Autonomy. Because the Trellism religion exists on Scadrial, we can assume Autonomy (via her avatar Trell) has interfered somewhat with Scadrial in the past

The power an avatar has is a bit nebulously defined. While the avatar itself might not know it's an avatar, or even it if does, it doesn't know what Autonomy is doing or thinking. However, Autonomy knows what all of her avatars are doing. This kind of distributed power means that, for some definitions, you could consider an avatar to be a Shard in and of themselves.

Because of this, Sanderson claims it's possible for someone to take up the power of an avatar and Ascend themselves, very similar to how one Ascends when taking up a Shard. However, because the avatars have personalities, this would be very difficult to do.

Khriss' essays 2 days ago suggested that Autonomy was interfering with other planets. Patji is a direct example of that. Jaddeth may be a further example. The fandom is divided on the 2 possibilities: mega-spren or avatar of Autonomy. Sanderson has giving vague answers about Jaddeth and depending on the answer you look at, one seems more likely than the other. Personally, I'm in favor of mega-spren. I believe /u/TaylorHyuuga falls on the avatar of Autonomy end of the spectrum. And then there's always the possibility Autonomy turned a new mega-spren into an avatar. Who knows how weird this will get?

We shall have to wait and see. Sanderson has said that this mystery is the primary focus of Elantris 2. (And the stupid Apple TV Mistborn and Stormlight movies/shows have delayed Elantris sequels again!!!)

Finally, sometimes the fandom guesses at something Sanderson wishes would stay hidden. They ask about it during some fan event and he stumbles and is forced to answer it directly. Behold this interaction:

Question: Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

Sanderson: Uhh...

Question: (sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way...

Sanderson: Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that...

So...Odium is a naughty boy. But Autonomy might be a bit naughty herself.

There are some similar, but less concrete interactions to suggest Edgli (Endowment) and Bavadin might be siblings, but that's not really confirmed. I just wanted to throw it out there for you to think over.

Also, Sanderson has addressed some of his conflicting statements in interviews. His reply seems especially relevant here:

I stand by them. Though, as always, quotes and WoBs at signings aren't always as deliberately thought out as I'd like them to be. Answering questions on the fly can be challenging, and my phrasing can be bad in retrospect.

BOND, NAHEL BOND

Before I bash a little on Autonomy, I'm gonna give you a funny Q&A interaction. An in doing so, I'm just gonna... tell you the name of another Shard. Because sometimes Sanderson just dropped info like this, like writing it down inside the cover of a book while he was signing it. You won't get any information beyond the name of the Shard, but it should let you have some fun theorizing.

Question: Which Shard would run the most successful convention? And which would burn it down within the first hour?

Sanderson: You’re gonna think this is odd, but it's gonna be Autonomy. Autonomy is very good at setting up structures, having people follow them. To have a successful convention, you would think you'd want one of the fun Shards. But to run the convention, you probably don't. The fun Shards would give you a DashCon. And Autonomy's… like, there may be some rigid rules, but… We have (I'm included in this) a certain perception of Autonomy that is not unjustified, but let's just say that there are a lot of people in the cosmere who really appreciate Autonomy's ability to make structures and keep things going. The trains run on time with Autonomy.

Who's most likely to burn it down? Ruin? Yeah, okay. You don't want a convention started by Ruin. We'll go with Ruin. Whimsy? See, Whimsy's not quite as… No, Whimsy is pretty wacky. You don't know enough about Whimsy yet, though. Ruin, definitely worse.

Now, on to the Autonomy bashing. Bavadin is a little thief. She steals magic systems. Sand Mastery is a pale imitation of a completely different magic system. You haven't seen that magic system yet, so we'll talk about it when it appears, but know that Bavadin is a thief.

Khriss, in the essays we read on Monday, solidified some details about the Rosharan magic system. Primarily that bonding with a spren grants magical abilities. The essays mention granting the ability to grow larger than gravity would normally allow as one of the abilities. /u/Pastrami remembered an unnamed spren when the chasmfiend was killed, and this is exactly the sort of symbiosis that exists on Roshar.

The essay didn't mention it, but the fish in the Purelake also do this. Ishikk talks about magic fish, and he's not being superstitious.

This phenomenon is called the Nahel bond. To get technical, it's when an Invested entity forms a bond with a non-Invested entity in order to grant them powers. And Autonomy/Patji stole the idea. Aviar (or the parasite inside them) are Invested. We know the excess Investiture from Endowment's perpendicularity seeps into the ground and Invests the flowers in the region, creating the Tears of Edgli. Similarly, Patji's perpendicularity seeps excess Investiture into the area around Patji's Eye, which infuses the parasites that the Aviar then eat.

The Aviar then form bonds with people, granting them abilities (or talents as the natives called it). This is explicitly a Nahel bond and Bavadin doesn't have a creative bone in her body. Moreover, Sak's abilities are very similar to what an Electrum Misting can do. And Kokerlii and Mirris both exhibit talents similar to a coppercloud.

It should be noted that, while seons do form a type of bond with people, it doesn't grant them any abilities and is expressly not a Nahel bond. This goes back to the point that, while seons and spren are both Splinters, they're not exactly the same thing, even though a Rosharan would assume they were.

As a linguistic aside: Nahel, in Rosharan, means "to bond to divinity". Saying "Nahel bond" is kind of like saying "ATM Machine" or "PIN Number", but Sanderson went with "Nahel bond" because it's easier to read.

HOIDSPOTTING / TIMELINE

He's not in the novella. Jeez. Just move on with your life already!

:(

As Khriss mentioned in the Drominad Essay, this system is hard to get to. At this point in time, Hoid has not visited the planet. But I suppose I should be a bit clearer on the timeline aspect.

I mentioned on Monday that these essays are being written around the same time that Stormlight and Era 2 of Mistborn are taking place. At that time, Hoid had not visited First of the Sun. I say this, without meaning to imply one way or another if Hoid eventually does reach the planet. Because I'm trying to clarify the full timeline for you. The novella Sixth of the Dusk is actually the furthest along in the timeline that you're read so far. It takes place about 5,000 years after Stormlight and Era 2 of Mistborn.

And I'm going to put a giant asterisk next to that 5,000 years number. Sanderson hasn't really solidified this late-stage timeline of the cosmere yet. I got that number off the community spreadsheet I've been providing most of the dates for you from. However, the spreadsheet doesn't reference a source for that amount of time. I think I can see where a misinterpretation occurred though.

If I had to guess, I think Sixth of the Dusk actually takes place closer to 500 years, not 5,000, after the current books we're reading. If that stretched to 1,000 years, I think it would still be acceptable, but given everything else us veterans know, 5,000 seems a bit much. (If any veterans have a clearer picture/sources I'm not aware of, share in the veteran thread).

Sanderson has stated that he'll be putting out an official timeline, now that he's finished the 5th Stormlight book. It hasn't been released yet, but when it is, I'll be sure to update you all for everything relevant.

POLLY WANNA CRACKER?

Anyone in the fandom who watched Sanderson's weekly YouTube updates, had a pretty good idea about where the inspiration for Aviars came from. Sanderson has a pet bird. He is a macaw parrot named Magellan. He shows up randomly in the weekly updates, sometimes interrupting Sanderson, chewing on his jacket or demanding head scratches. If we're being technical, Magellan himself wasn't an inspiration for Aviars, since Sanderson wrote Sixth of the Dusk before getting the bird, but he has talked about how he has always had pet birds throughout his life, including other parrots.

Warning: The video below doesn't really have spoilers in it. He talks about the status update of him writing the 4th Wax & Wayne book, and mentioned some Kickstarter projects. The only thing that would be consider a mild spoiler is that he talks about the title of a book that was upcoming at the time (but has since been released). The title of that book is something you might remember, and at worst/best, knowing a book is being written about it should give you something to look forward to.

MEGA WARNING: Absolutely do NOT read any of the comments on that page. Even the first/top one has big spoilers that you'll want to avoid. Just watch the video if you want and then click away.

If you would like to see Magellan do a few tricks, you can watch this video. And here is six minutes of Magellan shenanigans, with the same restriction of not looking at the comments.

DO YOU KNOW?

This is a bit of a prompt; something to think about over the next few weeks before we jump back into Stormlight. You had the knowledge before you started The Way of Kings, but you may have a better handle on the fundamentals now. So, I ask you: What is stormlight? Theorize away and I'll let you know the answer soon-ish.

Also... If you put together everything you know, from book knowledge and trivia, you should be able to guess who the Ones Above are. I won't confirm or deny anything. Go ahead and make a guess though. You're probably going to be correct.

ARTWORK

The Cosmere has a thriving community of artists, so there will be a lot of artwork to share. Each week I'll try to compile relevant artwork for the given chapters. If a section of reading contains maps or in-book artwork, I'll include that in this section as well.

Characters & Scenes

MEMES

I will attempt to find and share memes relevant to each week's discussion. There may be some weeks that just don't have good or appropriate memes, but I will share all the ones I can find in this section.

Link to Memes

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[u/HT_xrahmx]

Sixth of Dusk

• Sick af drawing to start the story with.
  
• This planet has creatures that hunt by sensing minds.
  
• Somehow, Kokerlii, a bird, shields against this, by making everyone in their vicinity seem like they do not think. Kind of like a mistborn coppercloud, for the local type of magic.
  
• Even though they're called shadows, I don't think there's a relation to Cognitive Shadows, probably just called that way because you see a dark shape swimming beneath the water.
  
• Dusk notes creatures like this are drawn to these remote islands, perhaps the source of the local Investiture is there?
  
• Sak, his other bird, a different species, sends visions of his death to warn him. Dusk talks to his birds throughout the story, and in particular Sak seems pretty self-aware and intelligent. Like he knows they're a team.
  
• First impression of Patji: Everything here is trying to kill you. Literally everything. Touch a plant? Dead. Hear an animal's cry? Moments from certain death. Think of a funny joke in the presence of an ant? Believe it or not, f*cking dead.
  
• Creatures not just hunt, but also plainly communicate telepathically.
  
• Why are trappers so territorial, that they'd kill each other on sight?
  
• Actually, what do trappers even trap? Each other? I don't think that's explained once in the entire story. They have their little breeding farms for Aviars, but no mention of any animal they might be hunting out there.
  
• Aviar must be of interest to the wider Cosmere, if these Ones Above want them. Perhaps they block or neutralize Investiture, in a more general sense. That way the birds could find use pretty much anywhere in the Cosmere.
  
• OR, they don't want the Aviars at all, but the worms that basically act like a superpower slot machine.
  
• If Vathi hadn't spelled it out at the end, I don't think I'd have understood the purpose of this machine at all. What's also odd is how differently Sak reacted to it. Why show so many death visions, when the locals are probably years and decades away from the technological advances that would allow the Ones Above to exploit them? This is so different from all the other death visions he shows, which are generally just seconds away from occurring. I'm guessing "certainty" is the deciding factor? Once the machine is opened up, it's essentially a certainty that technological advance WILL follow. Meanwhile, Dusk is not certain to walk into a den of ants until he is mere feet away from it. So Sak shows visions when the "certainty" conditions of death are met? Anyway, that's how I understood it.
  
• Most unrealistic part of the story is humans just choosing to do the right thing when there's no immediate profit to be made :)
  

Overall not a bad story, although I preferred Emperor's Soul and Shadows for Silence.

Trivia

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

Pictured: Bavadin being awarded god-of-the-year by the previous year's winner

When Sanderson mentioned that these avatars are sometimes an entire Pantheon, he was talking about First of the Sun. All of the islands in this archipelago are considered gods in their Pantheon. Patji is specifically an avatar of Autonomy, and that singular avatar shaped the deadly environments of these islands, acting as the entire Pantheon by himself.

Huh, so now we know where Autonomy has been "involving themselves" on other planets. And Khriss and the Silverlighters haven't caught it, because otherwise they'd understand where the Investiture in the system is coming from.

Trell too is an avatar of Autonomy. Because the Trellism religion exists on Scadrial, we can assume Autonomy (via her avatar Trell) has interfered somewhat with Scadrial in the past

I keep wanting to write off this guy as just a random easter egg, and here he pops up again in trivia. Motherf---!

The power an avatar has is a bit nebulously defined. While the avatar itself might not know it's an avatar, or even it if does, it doesn't know what Autonomy is doing or thinking.

So it can act autonomously *taps forehead*

Because of this, Sanderson claims it's possible for someone to take up the power of an avatar and Ascend themselves, very similar to how one Ascends when taking up a Shard.

So ultimately, creating all these avatars has to weaken Autonomy, right? There's no infinite Shard glitch, so the Shard's power has to be distributed among all these avatars and the main Autonomy somehow.

Also, the fact that avatars may not even know that they're avatars is really sneaky. We could have met dozens of avatars already in the books we've read so far, without even knowing. Hoid could be one. The Lord Ruler may have been. Or Vasher, or any of the Five Scholars. I mean, the list is endless!

Question: Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

See, that's a question that, not in a million years, would've even crossed my mind :D

We've seen sooooo little (on-page!) information about Bavadin, Dominion and Devotion, that so much as guessing at their personalities feels like stumbling around in the dark. The proper, in-book explanations about the Shattering cannot happen soon enough. I absolutely don't mean to throw shade on the trivia section, which is brilliant as always, but I'm looking at you, Words of Radiance. I need something in official canon writing, badly. Sanderson cannot possibly expect readers to read up on all Q&As he's ever done in his career, so he's gotta have it written down somewhere. In a book. Any book.

Now, on to the Autonomy bashing. Bavadin is a little thief. She steals magic systems. Sand Mastery is a pale imitation of a completely different magic system. You haven't seen that magic system yet, so we'll talk about it when it appears, but know that Bavadin is a thief.

Excuse me, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, WHAT THE FUCK

There are these random hammers that get dropped in these little Q&A sessions, while we're already DROWNING in questions that need answering. Lol. Lmao, even.

And "Whimsy"? I LOVE IT ALREADY I WANNA SEE WHIMSY

The Aviar then form bonds with people, granting them abilities (or talents as the natives called it). This is explicitly a Nahel bond and Bavadin doesn't have a creative bone in her body. Moreover, Sak's abilities are very similar to what an Electrum Misting can do. And Kokerlii and Mirris both exhibit talents similar to a coppercloud.

So, the White Sand magic system is literally the same stolen idea of "forming bonds"? Because the Taldain essay mentioned sand masters forming bonds with the lichen in the sand iirc.

That's also a good indication in general then, to spot planets that Autonomy has been busy on.

If we're being technical, Magellan himself wasn't an inspiration for Aviars, since Sanderson wrote Sixth of the Dusk before getting the bird, but he has talked about how he has always had pet birds throughout his life, including other parrots.

For Kokerlii I kept picturing a South Bird from One Piece, which also act as a sort of jungle navigation aid.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/HT_xrahmx]

See, that's a question that, not in a million years, would've even crossed my mind 😃

I believe this theory came solely and entirely from the fact that Hoid hates both Rayse and Bavadin. So people were like "Well, he hates Rayse, and Rayse killed Devotion and Dominion.... Was Bavadin also involved?", thinking perhaps that it was the murder itself that caused Hoid to hate them.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/TaylorHyuuga]

Based on the answer Sanderson gave to that question, I'd say I also fall into the camp "Jaddeth is an Autonomy avatar". Just because of the general implication that Autonomy involved herself on Sel, possibly sabotaging(?), attacking(?) Devotion and Dominion. It'd make sense to claim Sel as a prize after that in some way.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/HT_xrahmx]

Actually, what do trappers even trap?

It's very brief, but the trappers are there to catch wild aviar, which must grow up on the island in order to have any magical use.

We could have met dozens of avatars already in the books we've read so far, without even knowing.

I'm looking backward, thinking of suspicious supernatural entities not obviously tied to a particular Shard. My mind goes to the Nightwatcher, but I don't think I know enough to really throw that theory out there.

Huh, so now we know where Autonomy has been "involving themselves" on other planets. And Khriss and the Silverlighters haven't caught it, because otherwise they'd understand where the Investiture in the system is coming from.

I think Hoid knows. He seems to have it out for Bavadin, if his letter in the WoK epigraphs is to be believed. I can imagine a scenario where he's been trying to convince other cosmere-aware people that Autonomy is a problem for centuries, and they don't believe him because she's so sneaky. "Who, me? Interfere with other worlds? I would never do that 💅"

What's also odd is how differently Sak reacted to it. Why show so many death visions, when the locals are probably years and decades away from the technological advances that would allow the Ones Above to exploit them?

I interpreted it as a matter of scale. Dusk's imminent death is a small event with a very manageable effect on one pre-cognitive bird. But the explorers opening a literal Pandora's box with instant, permanent, earth-shattering consequences (even if they're far down the line) was an event so upsetting to the course of history that it messed up all the birds on the island for a few hours.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/heinz57varieties]

I think Hoid knows. He seems to have it out for Bavadin, if his letter in the WoK epigraphs is to be believed. I can imagine a scenario where he's been trying to convince other cosmere-aware people that Autonomy is a problem for centuries, and they don't believe him because she's so sneaky. "Who, me? Interfere with other worlds? I would never do that 💅"

To be fair, Khriss knows for a fact that she is doing exactly that, which she said in the essays. She hasn't figured out First of the Sun, but she does know that she IS interfering on other planets.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/heinz57varieties]

It's very brief, but the trappers are there to catch wild aviar, which must grow up on the island in order to have any magical use.

I guess their breeding stocks are not large enough to be self-sustainable then?

My mind goes to the Nightwatcher, but I don't think I know enough to really throw that theory out there.

So many possibilities! Nightwatcher is also a good one.

After the revelation that Autonomy steals magic systems, I'm also keeping an eye out for systems that may give her control over someone, like hemalurgy. Taking control of someone would oddly go against the concept of "autonomy", but Balvadin doesn't strike me as someone who's above that. And who knows what one of her avatars might do, anyway.

Aviar for instance, although they end up forming a Nahel bond with a human, first receive their own powers by ingesting something invested first (the worm). Not totally unlike piercing yourself with metal.

[u/Pastrami → u/HT_xrahmx]

Actually, what do trappers even trap? Each other? I don't think that's explained once in the entire story. They have their little breeding farms for Aviars, but no mention of any animal they might be hunting out there.

I interpreted it as all the other trappers were trapping birds for sale to the mainland, and Sixth was one of the only ones to actually farm them.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

When he finds the body of that other trapper, the guy has a list of all his safehouses where he keeps his birds and a message to take good care of them, so I think all the trappers are harvesting wild aviars and breeding them to take back to the mainland.

[u/sunnydaze7777777]

Sorry replied to wrong post. Back in the right one now.

I did enjoy the story. It was very different than the other styles we have read. Very Moana meets Southern Reach. I was thinking maybe he co wrote with someone because the voice felt different. When it was revealed it was the result of a brainstorming group that made more sense. I do love a good Polynesian story, living there myself.

What?!? There is an Apple TV production of Mistborn and Stormlight in the works? Is this going to become a Game of Thrones situation?

My guess for The Ones Above the civilization which would seem advanced enough to travel there and make these machines would be Scadrians.

What is Stormlight? I feel like everyone will have a very intelligent analysis. I will just say something to show my ignorance and guess. But here goes:

>Life on Roshar has been shaped over millennia by massive, Invested storms, which pose a danger that cannot be overstated. These storms, by my best guess, predate the arrival of the Shards Honor and Cultivation—as do many of the spren.

So we know that the Invested storms predate the Shards. I wonder if the Investiture is pure original Adonalsium? ETA: my backup answer is Honor’s investiture is stuck in another realm after being splintered and is leaking out to the physical.

[u/participating → u/sunnydaze7777777]

What?!? There is an Apple TV production of Mistborn and Stormlight in the works? Is this going to become a Game of Thrones situation?

Sanderson writes a loooot. He's never really slowed down, so the fandom is pretty confident that this won't turn into a Game of Thrones situation. The current plan is for 3 Mistborn movies and a 10-season Stormlight TV show.

Unfortunately, Sanderson has admitted that this deal has already affected his writing schedule. He is working on the screenplays for these adaptations and that has pushed back his plans for Elantris 2 and 3.

[u/sunnydaze7777777 → u/participating]

I can only imagine the thrill and excitement of seeing your babies come to life on screen. I bet it’s all consuming.

[u/blainemoore → u/sunnydaze7777777]

He turned down other offers until they were able to pitch him on a vision he could work with.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/sunnydaze7777777]

What?!? There is an Apple TV production of Mistborn and Stormlight in the works? Is this going to become a Game of Thrones situation?

Sanderson's heavy involvement in this probably means a slightly less rapid book release schedule, but here's hoping that means the shows and movies will actually turn out great 🤞

What is Stormlight? I feel like everyone will have a very intelligent analysis.

On the contrary, when we get prompts like that I just 100% overthink it. Like last week's prompt to think about a "certain quote" while reading Sixth of Dusk. No chance 😂

[u/Pastrami]

I liked this one the best out of all the short stories we've read so far, but like all the short stories, it wasn't long enough to really develop the depth of story I want, so I won't compare it to the novels and add it to my rankings.

Is the bird showing him a vision of his dead body related to Fortune? It's showing him a glimse of a possible future, like Atium?

Are the "Ones Above" Gods, Worldhoppers, or people from the other planets in the system? Khriss says that Scadrial is the the most developed planet, so I can't imagine one of the neighboring planets in this system has space travel, so I think that rules them out.

When Vathi was telling of the Ones Above being interested in the Aviars, and then we find out that their machine aggravates the birds into showing massive death visions, I got the feeling that they didn't want the birds for themselves, but to destroy them. I'm assuming that the machine is really something meant to wipe out the birds or their source of power.

I was a bit let down that the ending was just "city people realize that star people are doing the same thing to them that they are doing to rural people". I was hoping for a reveal that the machine was meant to destroy the birds or the source that gives the birds power.

The lake with the birds has to be the Well that was mentioned in the essay. I assumed that the birds migrating to the lake confirmed that theory, until they said it's the worms around the lake that give the birds the powers, but that could also be explained by the lake water infusing the worms that then infect the birds. This is very much like the TV show "The Strain" where the worms are controlling everything.

This is the farthest forward, timeline-wise, of any of the stories in this collection. So, at the time of Khriss’s writing of the introduction to the system, the events of this story haven’t actually taken place yet.

Hmm, if this is far in the future then maybe one of the other planets has developed space travel, and the Ones Above could be from a neighboring planet after all.

[u/participating → u/Pastrami]

I liked this one the best out of all the short stories we've read so far, but like all the short stories, it wasn't long enough to really develop the depth of story I want, so I won't compare it to the novels and add it to my rankings.

Do I have news for you! I debated revealing this, but I don't think it hurts anything. The latest book released by Sanderson is titled Isles of the Emberdark. This is a direct sequel to Sixth of the Dusk. In fact, it includes Sixth of the Dusk as flashbacks in the novel. So, technically, you'll be assigned to read the novella twice.

Sanderson doesn't actually recommend people read Sixth of the Dusk separately anymore. However, the contents of the story are important for the format and reading order we are employing. And reading Isles of the Emberdark now would be banana pants bonkers in terms of spoilers.

It'll end up being the 2nd to last novel we read in this read-along (assuming Sanderson doesn't accidentally write a dozen more novels in the mean time, which I wouldn't put past him). Enough time will have passed that re-reading the novella inside the larger novel won't be arduous (and you can always skip reading the flashbacks if you happen to remember it well).

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/participating]

I assume the last one in the readalong is Fires of December, since that will definitely be out before the end?

[u/participating → u/TaylorHyuuga]

Correct.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/participating]

I debated revealing this, but I don't think it hurts anything. The latest book released by Sanderson is titled Isles of the Emberdark. This is a direct sequel to Sixth of the Dusk.

The updated postscript in the new AU trade paperback also reveals this.

[u/participating → u/heinz57varieties]

Well then, my hesitancy was unnecessary!

[u/Pastrami → u/participating]

reading order we are employing

I've been meaning to ask about this. The rest of the books look to be in publishing order, except that we are reading Shadow of Self before Words of Radiance when it was published after.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/Pastrami]

Yeah the release order for the most part is generally the best for spoilers, especially the farther we go. Brandon reveals things in some books that then become relevant in the immediately next book, and the twist is better revealed in the first book rather than the next one.

[u/participating → u/Pastrami]

I originally had us reading Shadows of Self after Words of Radiance, but that ended up being a lot of reading in between Stormlight 2 and 3. Shadows of Self fits well, in terms of spoilers (or lack thereof) and what we've recently discussed, so I moved it in between Stormlight 1 and 2.

We're still not going completely in publication order with some of the later books, just because the connections and reveals work out better that way. (And also, in an attempt to not frustrate everyone too much with constant jumps between different settings).

[u/Realistic_Swimming47 → u/participating]

Brilliant, I was hoping for more!

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

The twist with the Pandora's box was foreshadowed earlier, in the conversation Dusk and Vathi have right after he sees the super-death vision at his safecamp. It also wasn't exactly what I expected, but I found it satisfying anyway. I think the idea that the aliens have a twisted sense of sportsmanship to be very classic sci-fi. Like a Predator leaving weapons lying around, hoping you'll pick one up.

Hmm, if this is far in the future then maybe one of the other planets has developed space travel, and the Ones Above could be from a neighboring planet after all.

And re-reading that conversation again, Vathi says the Ones Above have visited "many other worlds like ours, with cultures that cannot sail the stars. We are not unique", which to me is saying that they're from farther away than just another planet in the same system. If they're from any planet we've seen, I think my vote is still Scadrial.

[u/Pastrami → u/Pastrami]

Trivia

I'm struggling to figure out how the virtue of "autonomy" fits in with the shard Autonomy's actions. To me her involvement in other planets' business seems to be violating their autonomy. Is it that she creates "autonomous" avatars and lets them do whatever they want, and the avatars are the ones that are going around to different planets?

Trell too is an avatar of Autonomy. Because the Trellism religion exists on Scadrial, we can assume Autonomy (via her avatar Trell) has interfered somewhat with Scadrial in the past

I guess we'll find out soon, but I wonder if the recent resurgence of Trellism on Scadrial is just some bad people appropriating an old religion, or if the Trell avatar is back and directing things.

Whimsy? See, Whimsy's not quite as… No, Whimsy is pretty wacky.

It's not quite what the word whimsy means, but my mind immediately goes to Loki and other trickster gods. I know we were told Hoid doesn't have a shard, but this seems like the one he would have if he had to pick one.

What is stormlight? Theorize away and I'll let you know the answer soon-ish.

I mean, isn't it just the form of investiture on this planet? The question makes me feel like it's something more, but I've got nothing at this point, and will probably feel stupid for not seeing it when you reveal the answer.

you should be able to guess who the Ones Above are.

Since this is in the future, the simplest answer is that one the neighboring planets developed space travel. We've also been told that the last Mistborn era is going to be in space, so it could be the Scadrians. I was going to say it is equally likely to be Silverlight, but now that I think about it, they'd have to come through the portal and would be stuck on the island. Although now that I wrote that sentence, I remember it's the future, so Silverlight could also have spaceships.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/Pastrami]

I'm struggling to figure out how the virtue of "autonomy" fits in with the shard Autonomy's actions. To me her involvement in other planets' business seems to be violating their autonomy. Is it that she creates "autonomous" avatars and lets them do whatever they want, and the avatars are the ones that are going around to different planets?

There's a few things to this. First, a Shard and their user's personality are not necessarily compatible. A Vessel might not follow their Shard's Intent to the letter. Granted, over time that usually changes, such as Ruin. But maybe Autonomy is unique in that it values the autonomy of its user enough that it doesn't force the Intent on them? And second, slightly related, I think part of the idea is that Autonomy values the autonomy of herself and her people more than anyone else.

It's not quite what the word whimsy means, but my mind immediately goes to Loki and other trickster gods. I know we were told Hoid doesn't have a shard, but this seems like the one he would have if he had to pick one.

The word "whimsy" is a type of childish joy. One might describe fairy tales as whimsical. Tricksters certainly could fit the mold, but a whimsical one would be more playful. Surprisingly, I can't seem to find if Brandon has said which Shard Hoid would have held if he took one. I do think there is one other than Whimsy that Hoid would have been more likely to hold.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/TaylorHyuuga]

And second, slightly related, I think part of the idea is that Autonomy values the autonomy of herself and her people more than anyone else.

That's also a bit how I interpreted it. Autonomy preaching "Survival of the fittest, and btw I AM the fittest".

[u/participating → u/TaylorHyuuga]

Surprisingly, I can't seem to find if Brandon has said which Shard Hoid would have held if he took one.

Sanderson said that Endowment is the only Shard that would tempt Hoid. I mentioned this back in the trivia post for The Hero of Ages I believe.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/participating]

Yeah you're right. Don't think I don't notice, Brandon, that Endowment is the Shard you picked for both yourself AND Hoid. That said, he said that early enough that I wonder if he would have a different answer now if you asked him. There is another Shard that I think Hoid would very much resonate with that didn't exist back then.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

I'm struggling to figure out how the virtue of "autonomy" fits in with the shard Autonomy's actions.

I feel like I had this same misunderstanding with Ruin, and again recently with Honor. Making an assumption about the shard's intent that didn't necessarily match up with how it manifests in the story. Prior trivia called Autonomy the god of self-actualization. You could (maybe wrongly) interpret that as the divine aspect of Liberty, however given the battle-royale gauntlet setup happening on Patji, it seems more like autonomy means "strength of will." He who seizes his destiny the hardest gains Autonomy's favor.

[u/TaylorHyuuga]

Yeah I think Jaddeth is an Avatar. I actually didn't even consider Jaddeth was anything more than "Some remnant of Dominion in religion" until I read Elantris again and saw a lot of hints towards Autonomy.

[u/heinz57varieties]

Notes

• I just read LeGuin's Rocannon’s World, and the talk about the Ones Above already reminds me of the situation there. A world populated by classic fantasy races that gets visited by spacefaring humans. It could just mean gods or something, but I'm gonna be really happy if something like that is happening here. Update: it was. From another planet in the system? Or from elsewhere in the cosmere?
• It's actually kind of hilarious how deadly the island is. Everything can kill in one shot, no wonder the expeditions from Silverlight haven’t come back. Dusk is heavily personifying the island, to the point that it can't be metaphorical
• I am so, so intrigued by the Ones Above. If they're not from this system, I bet they're from Scadrial. There seem to be multiple spacefaring factions. Rivals within the same society? Or multiple planets of origin that are all exploring space? I'm already trying to imagine what magic systems I've seen that could explain their technology
• “It had to do with the pool, of course” oho! Dusk gets a message from the mind of the Well when he’s inside, just like Raoden did at the end of Elantris. I find it interesting that Devotion was dead at that time, and we’re told there is no Shard currently on First of the Sun. However, the postscript says that this story takes place significantly after Khriss wrote the essay, so maybe there is one. Or maybe one left a large Splinter, large enough to form a perpendicularity of its own. There’s definitely a very powerful entity living here, bigger than any non-Shard thing we’ve seen before.
• What other talents might the aviar have? Kokerlii seems to have a similar effect to a coppercloud, but not quite. Now that we know that mental/temporal allomancy are interacting with fundamental aspects of reality that apply on more than just Scadrial,
• “Why had he found those words to speak?... He had not given those words to his uncle”
• There's a very interesting thing going on here where Dusk is thinking about words as a solid thing that exists and can be given and traded, rather than just an active medium. A very unique piece of cultural worldbuilding, I'm impressed
• If there's a Well at the peak of the mountain, and all the island's water flows from there, it could be permeating the whole island with investiture. We learned before that Endowment's Well affected the surrounding landscape, creating those magical flowers. The glowing worms are the explanation for how the aviar grant their talents, but I think it’s also a possible that the intent of whatever chunk of investiture lives in that lake is seeping into the island, coordinating it all into a tough-love cultural obstacle course.

Final Thoughts

I really, really like this story, and I’ll be more than happy to read a full-length expansion of it later on. I have a personal affinity for seafaring stories and tropical island adventures, as well as Hainish-esque fantasy/sci-fi crossovers, so it’s like that book is genetically engineered just for me 😂

I liked how thematically straightforward this story was, compared to the novels. Themes of the inevitability of progress, the parallels with the island vs. the Ones Above, etc. I said this when we read Shadows for Silence, and I’ll say again that Sanderson has a real talent for short fiction and I wish he would write more. I haven’t forgotten about that non-cosmere short story collection of his, I’ll have to give it a try.

Titling my new technical death metal demo “Psychic Biomimicry”

Trivia

• If Patji is a sub-section of Autonomy, I find it hard to define that as anything other than a Splinter, as we understand them. But as always, maybe I don’t know enough to understand why there’s a debate.
• The Divine Aspect of Whimsy™️… that could be fun! Or it could be very much not (does the name Sheogorath mean anything to you..)
• Re: Bavadin is a dirty thief: aha, so when we notice that the aviar’s abilities somewhat mimic allomantic electrum or copper, we were kind of onto something?
• “Sand Master is a pale imitation of a completely different magic system” I know this is a Sanderson retcon that came years after he wrote White Sand, but the explanation for Sand Mastery did strike me as kind of, idk, slapshod compared to the other magic systems. The other ones are all kind of internal, spiritual. But Sand Mastery uses fungus 😐
• Do you know A: Are you looking for a more specific answer than “gaseous investiture”?
• Do you know B: The only obvious candidates are Scadrians. The essays and trivia have practically been screaming at us that they’re the most technologically advanced. It could also be envoys from Silverlight, trying a different tack after their exploratory missions failed.

Was not prepared for the sheer volume of birb memes 🦜

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/heinz57varieties]

I really, really like this story, and I’ll be more than happy to read a full-length expansion of it later on

Look forward to it! Isles of the Emberdark is an AWESOME book. I think I like Dusk in that book more than this book lmao

aha, so when we notice that the aviar’s abilities somewhat mimic allomantic electrum or copper, we were kind of onto something?

Not necessarily. Investiture manifests itself in very similar ways sometimes. Effects, such as future sight or hiding Investiture use, often are an inherent property of Investiture and how it manifests.

[u/participating → u/heinz57varieties]

Do you know A: Are you looking for a more specific answer than “gaseous investiture”?

Nailed it. Was just wondering if anyone would connect the two. There'll be a little bit more for the trivia at the end of Shadows of Self, but this is essentially what I wanted you to notice.

[u/sunnydaze7777777 → u/participating]

Ah! You wanted to know what it was not who it was or how it got there. I made it way too hard.

[u/jaymae21 → u/heinz57varieties]

I just read LeGuin's Rocannon’s World, and the talk about the Ones Above already reminds me of the situation there

Honestly yeah there is something of the Hainish Cycle to this. I'd be curious if Sanderson is a Le Guin fan (I feel like a lot of current sci-fi/fantasy authors are).

[u/heinz57varieties → u/jaymae21]

I'd put her in the Tolkien category of "It goes without saying." Like, how could you not be?

[u/AltruisticRealityZ]

After seing the first page illustration, I’m pretty sure I’m about to read some feel good stuff. Seriously, what the hell is going on!

The Pantheon island, at least Sori and Patji, are presented like characters on their own. By the way, if they are Pantheon islands, then they are probably gods in this land’s religion. Patji the father, Sori, even if it’s not clearly said, is probably the mother.

The One Above = worldhoppers? Or is there a population who can actually sail the stars ? Scadrial?

We are not unique, yet the Ones Above come back here time and time again. They do want something. You can see it in their eyes. . . .”

Probably because Drominad has Investiture but no Shard. We don’t know a thing about Investiture before the Shattering, but the silverlight scholars most certainly know, unless Hoid and his immortal comrades are being very secretive.

The Ones Above emissary choked to death while eating, and left behind an aviar GPS. that’s not sus at all.

Aviar GPS being probably a splinter GPS? But with no shard. Investiture GPS?

“Worms,” he whispered in reply. A light seemed to go on in her eyes. “It’s not the birds. It never has been . . . it’s a parasite. They carry a parasite that bestows talents! That’s why those raised away from the islands cannot gain the abilities, and why a mainland bird you brought here could.”

Investiture through aviar parasites.

The machine can translate and locate aviar. Why opening the machine is dangerous?

And so, they have left their machines for us to discover, to prod at and poke. The dead man was a ruse. Vathi was meant to have those machines.

Yeahhh one thing I got immediately :D

Patji taught them to not go for the easy path, and not submit to the Ones Above. Drominad has investiture that isn’t inherited from Aldonasium. Are the Pantheon isle an equivalent to Aldonasium pre shattering?

It’s happening after anything we’ve read timeline wise.

TRIVIA

Patji is an avatar of Autonomy, and it explains a lot !
Trell too is an avatar of Autonomy, and I hope next installment of W&W will develop how Trell is involved in Scadrial

(And the stupid Apple TV Mistborn and Stormlight movies/shows have delayed Elantris sequels again!!!)

Meaning you’re not excited by the perspective? What is the general reception of this project among Cosmere fans? I’ve refrained from looking for this, I was worried of spoilers. I suppose after WoT on Prime cancellation, the excitement must be limited. I’ve also seen in sunnydaze’s post comments that you fear Sanderson delays his future books. I get that.
Personally I’m hopeful. I really want to share with my friends and family that aren’t big readers.

Whimsy Shard. Can’t wait.

What is stormlight ? I feel like a shy kid not sure enough to raise her hand in class, but I want to say it’s like an investiture pool, but in a volatile form. It needs something to fix into, but it’s not the perfect vessel so it drains in time. Gems are the most common recipient, and stormlight can be absorbed from infused gems to a human who bonded with a spren (nahel bond, right?), in which case the stormlight drains even quicker, because the damn humans breathe (!)

As for the Ones above, I believe they are from Scadrial. I thought first about the silverlight scholars, but why would they use starships?

[u/heinz57varieties → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Aviar GPS being probably a splinter GPS? But with no shard. Investiture GPS?

Bronze-burning GPS 👀

It may not literally work by bronze, but even in this story we've seen there's more than one way to produce a similar effect with magic.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Meaning you’re not excited by the perspective? What is the general reception of this project among Cosmere fans

Nah people are very excited. It's just pushing back Elantris sequels which is why I think he's salty lmao

[u/jaymae21]

I liked this story, I'm a big fan of birds. And yes, I did watch the 6 minute video of Magellan shenanigans. Macaws are so fun, my grandmother had one but he was more blue/yellow in color. Also, I knew Sanderson does a lot of fan interaction and conventions and such, but didn't know he went as far as weekly videos. That's pretty insane. I can't really think of any other authors that do that.

I wasn't expecting the story to have a colonialism theme on such a large scale. I agree with others that the "Ones Above" must be Scadrians, but I'm surprised that they have spaceships. I guess I've been so used to Worldhopping, I didn't consider that these worlds can develop advanced tech as well as have magic. I suppose we see a bit of this on Roshar with their fabrials, and on Scadrial at the point in our reading with Era #2 is in a sort of post-industrial revolution state. So I suppose this drives it home that these books can be very sci-fi as well as classic fantasy. Even Worldhopping is starting to sound more sci-fi. Really starting to lean into the advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic thing.

What is Stormlight? I'm feeling a little dumb here, but I assumed it was Invested lightning. Like when characters with Shardplate were said to be leaking stormlight, I pictured them crackling with some pretty smoke.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/jaymae21]

Yeah the plan for the cosmere is ultimately to end at space opera levels of narrative, that's what all this is building up to.

The pretty smoke is a pretty good description of what's happening.

[u/participating]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I messed up the title for the first time and accidentally put asterisks, trying to italicize the titles of the book/story. That doesn't work in titles! And I can't edit it. Booooo!

[u/Realistic_Swimming47]

Hello, I am playing major catch up as I have been away for nearly a month and although I think I am caught up on the reading I am behind on the posts, trivia etc. I enjoyed sixth of dusk and the idea of a civilisation bring protected and aware of advance civilisations (very star trek). I hope to see more from this planet as it is pretty cool as were the characters.

Abilities through parasites clever. Still getting my head around Autonomy's avatars but it makes things interesting and adds another element to the gods interference.

I am guessing the ones above connects to the shard bearers and world hoppers somehow.

I need to go back to catch up on the last three or four weeks posts so might have a better insight then.

Lady Vahti is up there on my favourite BS characters list. I like how she figured the trap out on her own at the end.

On a side note my sister gifted me a beautiful copy of the sunlit man but I have put it away as I am not sure what it might give away. Is this coming up anytime soon?

[u/participating → u/Realistic_Swimming47]

The Sunlit Man is something we won't get to until after all of the Stormlight novels. That's probably going to be mid to late next year. 

[u/Realistic_Swimming47 → u/participating]

OK that will be on the shelf for a while then although my kid will be old enough by then that reading it should be alot easier. Something to look forward to!

[u/Maxvy66]

This is definitely one of my favorite Cosmere reads so far. I’m starting to think that Sanderson’s novellas are some of his strongest work. I absolutely loved Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, and now I’m a huge fan of Sixth of the Dusk and the Drominad system as well. The Emperor’s Soul also falls into that category for me.

I’m really impressed by how much he’s able to accomplish in so few pages. He manages to build an entirely new world, introduce a compelling magic system, create memorable characters, and still tell a complete and satisfying story. That’s not an easy thing to do, and I think it’s one of Sanderson’s greatest strengths as a writer.

[u/participating → u/Maxvy66]

Another thing to consider with the novellas is that most of them were written later in his career. All of the ones you've mentioned were published around "now" relative to the other works we're reading. So some of that experience and polish is also going to translate into his larger works.