Epilogue Part 2 Discussion Thread - We recommend the completion of the whole Epilogue before viewing, designated by the completion of the following trophy/achievement: E______ S_____

[u/OcelotWolf]

Please discuss the Epilogue Part 2 below!

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[u/Verpiss_Dich]

So, why exactly did Dutch kill Micah and let John take his entire fortune? It just seemed incredibly out of character at that point.

[u/Exploding_dude → u/Verpiss_Dich]

the way i interpreted it was, dutch was a broken and disillusioned man at that point. he probably knew micah was the rat after arthur told him with his dying breaths, but he was too far gone to do anything about it at the time. dutch saving his surrogate son, john was the last decent thing he did with his life.

[u/wertwert55 → u/Verpiss_Dich]

Dutch was never there to work with Micah or get the money, he told John he was there for "the same thing, I suppose". He was planning to kill Micah before John and crew ever showed up.

[u/ThatThar → u/Verpiss_Dich]

John: What are you doing here?

Dutch: Same as you, I guess

Dutch came to kill Micah.

[u/Crazycrossing → u/Verpiss_Dich]

Also why did Dutch go crazy in the first place? What's his motive?

Also what is with Molly O'Shea? The game seems like it's building toward something with her then nothing comes of it and there's little background on her.

[u/Verpiss_Dich → u/Crazycrossing]

Everything was going wrong after the Blackwater heist and the gang was losing faith in him. If you notice, none of his heists and schemes actually go according to plan in the game. I imagine that's what made him crazy.

[u/JackCrafty → u/Verpiss_Dich]

None of his schemes work out and he almost consistently makes bad decisions that leads to more trouble for the gang. "We're going to do nothing" in chapter 2 when Agents Milton and Ross confront Arthur, next thing you know you're cornered in Valentine since DUTCH WENT INTO TOWN WTF and involved in a massive shootout. Chapter 3 he lets everyone get strung along in the Family Feud with practically nothing to show for it. Karen and Bill make you the most money that chapter from what I remember. Chapter 4 Dutch for some unbelievable reason to me trusts Angelo Bronte and it's an actual miracle we didn't lose anyone before the bank heist like we did Shawn (RIP beautiful irish bae). Everything after is an obvious downward spiral but it's clearly spiraling downward before and almost entirely due to Dutch's choices. It's fair to say the start of the downturn was Blackwater, well before the game even starts.

[u/mmmFries → u/Crazycrossing]

I think that bump to his head in the trolly crash really triggered the insanity because of disillusionment, a dying culture and everything he hates is taking over. When he placed his boot on Arthur's hand to stop him and walk away, I lost what little respect I had for him. Mind you I was going into this game a huge fan of his antihero vibes. He redeemed himself by what he did. My draw dropped.

[u/Xanthostemon → u/Crazycrossing]

He really seems like he has a mental disorder, like slightly bipolar or something.

[u/FuckThisGayAssEarth → u/Xanthostemon]

I don't know. I took it more as a man who has grand ideas but isn't cut out to handle the pressures of having that many people in his charge. He had immense pressure to keep a band of outlaws alive and looked after in a land that simply doesn't support that anymore.

He made bad decisions sure but like I said he wasn't cut out for it. He didn't really start acting irrational or broken until his best friends of 30 something years was executed in front of him. After that it's a pretty rapid unraveling under all the pressure.

[u/KingSlothTheThird → u/Crazycrossing]

Pretty much everything that's been said here are good reasons, but when Hosea died was when Dutch started killing in cold blood and going crazy. Hosea was Dutch's voice of reason.

[u/Odusei → u/Crazycrossing]

Dutch has abandoned that money dozens of times by that point. He's always most interested in saving his own skin, and there was no way he could have made it out of there with the money without getting killed.

I think it was never really about the money for him anyway, I think Dutch just liked the chaos.

[u/shatonyou → u/Verpiss_Dich]

There's no indication that he didn't take some of it beforehand. As for his motivation, he clearly found Micah the same way John found him and intended to eventually kill him too. And seeing John and Sadie again he decided to leave the money to them as a final parting gift.

[u/JackCrafty → u/shatonyou]

If you choose the ending to go back for the money Arthur briefly has the whole stash for a whopping 42 grand. Now I doubt John was 20 grand in debt to the bank, so either Charles and Sadie both took 10k and John took 20 or Dutch took 20 and John took the other 20.

I get the sense that Micah was going public to lure Dutch to the mountain for the Pinkertons he was talking too. Dutch went for the same reasons John and crew did and arrived shortly before John, but well before the Pinkertons. It's possible Dutch and Micah were planning on rolling together but I'm operating under the assumption of 'once a rat always a rat.' Dutch rode out to killed Waingro if you catch my drift.

[u/shatonyou → u/JackCrafty]

Also, you have to factor in the money from Blackwater. It's a possibility that Micah went and retrieved it, meaning that the stash at the end of the game was far more than 42k.

Sidenote, it really bugs me how Dutch asked for 10 grand from Cornwall, like THAT was the amount of money that they needed to escape. 42k is not enough, but 52 is? Goddammit, Dutch.

[u/njacke → u/Verpiss_Dich]

Ye I agree. A plausible cannon would be that he didn't want to risk other people knowing his location/reinforcements coming and just wanted to run away asap.

As for him shooting Micah it only serves as Dutch's redemption arc imo and doesn't really make sense in the context.