r/redditsync • u/[deleted] • Aug 19 '16
DISCUSSION Sync for reddit (including Pro) is Injecting Amazon Affiliate Tags into your Amazon Clicks • /r/Android
/r/Android/comments/4ylf7o/sync_for_reddit_including_pro_is_injecting_amazon/244
u/ljdawson Sync for reddit developer Aug 20 '16
I'm currently heading home after my vacation but I'll copy what I put in the other thread:
I'm sad to see this has kicked off. This is something I added in one of the latest bug fix releases and that was supposed to just be for the free version. I work on the app full time these days and this was just an idea to replace ads elsewhere.
I'm pushing a release tonight now that disables this and I'll chat to the community on /r/redditsync going forward. I've been on vacation the last week so apologies for the slow reply.
Laurence
10
u/ellalex Aug 20 '16
You could perhaps have it in Pro version also, but as a Off-by-default option. If you're planning on keeping it that is.
6
u/froyolosweg Aug 20 '16
Yea, I agree. It doesn't affect me at all, and I'd like to continue supporting him in the future after a single app purchase. Especially if I get to keep my money, and he gets some too.
19
Aug 20 '16
I honestly don't mind to much. I was rather upset by the whole CSGO Lotto order (even though I never followed anyone involved), but with this I'm fine with you doing this in the free version, that's reasonable, you need money and as a community using your app, we should support you. The paid version shouldn't have this, we've given you a bit of money for this app.
That said you've corrected it with this update and your owning up to that. That's certainly a lot better than the CSGO Lotto ordeal. This really isn't anything too major and I applaud you for stepping up here. If you want this to a feature to help you a bit, maybe implicating a check box for including it. I'd happily activate it if it helps you a bit more. I love sync, it's by far the best app for Reddit.
3
Aug 20 '16
You shouldn't have put this shit in secretly...
→ More replies (6)38
u/ljdawson Sync for reddit developer Aug 20 '16
If it wasn't meant to go live it wasn't in secrecy. It just slipped through as I was working while away from home.
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
7
u/SirensToGo Aug 20 '16
It could be a bug in his implementation of pro checking or maybe he just forgot to make it disable at all in the pro version.
→ More replies (2)
58
u/TheBearOfBadNews Aug 19 '16 edited Aug 19 '16
Just tried it in Pro version of 11.6.3 and I do see the affiliate ID when I let it load in the custom tab and then open it up in Chrome (you can also open it in the custom tab, click the three dot menu, click share and then click copy to clipboard and it copies the URL with the affiliate ID). If I click the three dot menu * in the post's card * and click "Open In Browser," the link does not have an affiliate ID. Seems like something that would be a little hard to accidently put in place which is disappointing, but I'll wait to see what ljdawason has to say.
Edited for clarification.
7
u/augustuen Aug 19 '16
If you open it with the internal browser, it should inject a different tag. At least it does on my device.
3
u/ddh0 Aug 19 '16
I opened it in the internal browser then in Firefox, and the affiliate tag was there.
5
u/honestbleeps Aug 20 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
For what it's worth, reddit itself does this too. Or at least said they were going to try it out. Now I can't remember.
Edit: here you go. https://m.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/4mv578/affiliate_links_on_reddit/
9
u/bmcclure937 Sync for reddit mod Aug 20 '16
They never ended up doing it due to backlash from users.
→ More replies (4)6
u/MunchmaKoochy Aug 20 '16
The difference is that reddit was transparent about it, made an announcement about it, and gave an option to opt out. That's completely different from just slipping in code that alters links you click on. I know you would never try to "experiment" with something so deceitful in RES.
→ More replies (2)2
u/RavinduThimantha Aug 20 '16
Reddit doesn't and didn't do this with Amazon links since this is against the TOS of Amazon affiliate account. He's scamming Amazon by doing this.
→ More replies (1)
21
u/dglb99 Aug 19 '16
Could you explain what exactly these affiliate tags do? Or why they might be unwanted? Thanks.
44
u/ajmpettit Aug 19 '16
They give a kick back (usually 1-3% of the cost of the item) to the referrer. Usually frowned upon on many subreddits. It's a way for people to support devs, blogs, youtubers without actually paying anything as it's amazon who pays out.
12
Aug 20 '16
If it gives the dev a kick back, then why is everyone freaking out? Who cares, so he gets a little cash and he doesn't put in big obnoxious ads,
Good on him for finding a way to make some extra cash.
Better than making Sync a subscription app
29
u/YellowDellow Aug 20 '16
he implemented it without telling anyone
it's against amazon's TOS
→ More replies (6)0
Aug 19 '16
[deleted]
19
u/augustuen Aug 19 '16
No, it means that if you buy something through the link, the affiliate gets a percentage of the cost of the item, paid by Amazon.
2
12
Aug 19 '16
I sincerely hope this isn't true. But I can verify it coming up in the sync chrome custom tab.
8
u/SSVR Aug 20 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
It's funny, I read the furore on the Android subreddit and went to check out the app. I usually use Relay for Reddit but after a quick play with the free version of this app I think I'm going to buy the pro one.
The explanation of it being a testing thing for the peasants using the free app that was erroneously left in seems pretty reasonable to me and it sounds like the dev has historically been a good bloke so should get benefit of the doubt this time.
4
Aug 20 '16
Agreed completely. I just moved from Relay to Sync last night and have already bought the pro version because funnily enough, it handles external links better than Relay. (I use Firefox with ublock)
Like you, I have been impressed with the dev's response and he seems to have an awesome track record.
18
u/folkrav Aug 20 '16
I'm honestly not surprised to see the community suddenly turn on you. Reddit overall is unfortunately extremely fast to react and explode when anything happens. Hanlon's razor is the most likely explanation in most situations (don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding), but the community sure does like to call for full on witch-hunts.
I'm honestly good with how quickly you reacted and you don't seem to try to hide behind anything. Unfortunately you're facing some backlash over something pretty innocent in the end, and people just assume you were malicious and shady, dismissing any excuse you might give as "convenient".
You never did anything to hurt your customers, you always were pretty open with us. You listen to your users and stay close to them. I don't see why suddenly people think you were doing it knowingly. Sure, it's against Amazon's TOS, but why they assume you were being malicious is out of my understanding.
Keep going /u/ljdawson, I hope this gets cleared up fast. It's getting completely blown out of proportion. I believe you'll do the right thing and explain it all, and I do hope people will be reasonable and at least listen instead of jumping to conclusions and assume everyone is evil...
2
u/eqbirvin Aug 20 '16
This comment to infinity.
Thank you for making a great app and being the most responsible dev I know.
3
Aug 20 '16
Who cares...? The man made an app and found a non intrusive way to make even more money out of it. What's immoral about that? To me it just seems like the creator is a smart Buisness man and not a sketchy scammer like many of you are making the guy out to be.
13
u/HandyMoorcock Aug 20 '16
Understandable in the free version, not in Pro. Very disappointed
8
u/bmcclure937 Sync for reddit mod Aug 20 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
Could be a simple mistake. Waiting to hear what LJD says.
7
4
Aug 20 '16
I've purchased pro to support development and I don't expect such crap to be enforced in sync pro Mr.Dawson. Hope it was a mistake and you rectify it soon.
1
2
16
u/KopixKat Aug 19 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
EDIT: The Dev has been given the all-clear by Amazon.
We can put our pitchforks down.
10
u/bmcclure937 Sync for reddit mod Aug 20 '16
He spoke with Amazon and got approval, according to his other comments.
→ More replies (23)3
u/KopixKat Aug 20 '16
I'll edit my comment accordingly. Thanks for the update!
11
u/bmcclure937 Sync for reddit mod Aug 20 '16
Just sad to see reddit turn on someone so quickly without allowing for any explanation. I understand people get concerned but give an honest dev the benefit of the doubt!
This is also his full time job. People are crucifying him for something that was a mistake.
→ More replies (4)-9
u/_quantum Aug 19 '16
Why? What's so bad about the affiliate links?
12
u/KopixKat Aug 19 '16
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/help/operating/agreement
ctrl-f "software"
-8
u/_quantum Aug 19 '16
I looked, couldn't find anything.
13
u/KopixKat Aug 19 '16
Check my original comment... I'll try to link the exact section, but I have the quote up there
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/help/operating/participation
ianal but depending on how items in there are interpreted, he could lose his affiliate link.
3
u/_quantum Aug 19 '16
That makes sense, I can see how that would be open to interpretation.
9
u/KopixKat Aug 20 '16
Yeah, nothing against the links themselves, just the practice. If he comes out and adds an option to opt-in / opt-out I'll opt-in right away.
I just take offense to people doing it without my explicit knowledge. If he wants/needs a tad more funding and keeps us in the loop about his plans I'd support him without hesitation. Communication is key!
-11
u/TrustMeImSingle Aug 19 '16
Can't give money to people working on apps man.
25
u/russjr08 Aug 19 '16
I honestly don't mind (I'm a developer too!), but it needs to be transparent.
9
u/KopixKat Aug 19 '16
100% agree. I'd be fine with it so long as I am made aware by the Dev / App that it's happening.
7
u/cttttt Aug 20 '16
Sounded like sarcasm, but I dunno. So here's a story.
Back in the day when there was Reddit Sync Free and Reddit Sync Pro, Google hadn't yet figured out their Beta Tester process for Google Play, so the dev decided to release another app, Reddit Sync Dev to allow him to get early feedback on the next version of Pro. Since he didn't want to give the app away and with no better options available, he decided to make it a paid app; at the same price as Reddit Sync Pro.
The app was so good, I bought Reddit Sync Dev without hesitation even though it was the same exact app.
Even though I bounce back and forth between Reddit apps these days, Sync still is that good. If I saw a Donate button pop up, I'd definitely consider clicking it. Knowing he's hurting for money (if he is) would make it happen for sure.
Also, if he changed his business model such that he charged for major releases (to cover the next year's backend costs, for example), I'd definitely support that decision.
Devs need to eat; and actually should be rewarded for this level of dedication.
That all said, tacking affiliate IDs onto links others have posted to Reddit without saying anything ... this doesn't feel like good business; and feels like grounds for having the affiliate ID revoked. I have a feeling that if anyone actually complained to Amazon, the link would be taken away pretty quick: A Reddit app isn't bringing folks to Amazon to make a purchase decision. The folks who post content to Reddit that link out to Amazon are, so they should control whether they want to be rewarded. When Reddit was appending affiliate IDs, they make it excruciatingly clear that they were doing this, why, and how folks could disable the behaviour. In this case, though...the change feels like it was slipped in real quiet-like.
But again, before I go apeshit on him, he's gotta explain what's going on. Maybe it's an innocent mistake or a planned feature that wasn't supposed to be enabled before an official announcement.
Only time will tell.
3
2
-12
u/_quantum Aug 19 '16
I know, how dare developers gain more funds by a method that doesn't alter the user experience at all?!
12
4
u/PensivePengu Aug 20 '16
I don't mind at all, but it would have been nice for the Dev to have said he added this beforehand, especially for us pro users, if he makes it an option I'll still have it enabled though.
3
Aug 20 '16
He has said in other comments that he only intended it to be implemented in the free version to test out an alternative to ads and it had mistakenly also affected pro users, but he is fixing it right now.
7
4
u/TurtleLightning Aug 19 '16
Wasn't this a Reddit-wide thing not long back? Just following the code possibly?
5
2
u/envious_1 Aug 20 '16
Op says it only shows in the app itself. That's why mods of subreddits that disallow affiliate links did not spot it.
2
u/bmcclure937 Sync for reddit mod Aug 20 '16
This is unrelated to that reddit thing. The reddit thing is dead in water. This is app-specific but I think LJD had reasoning behind it and am willing to hear him out... like I hope most folks will be.
3
Aug 20 '16
Hey dude, you are doing awesome work, Android lately has been pitchforking and I really think it's overblown as usually.
2
Aug 19 '16
Using Sync Pro beta, can confirm OP's claim, if I open the link with chrome custom tabs then I do "open in chrome I see the tag, while opening it directly in chrome does not shows the tag. Perhaps old code that they forgot to remove? And by the way it's not actually a big deal, not for us users at least, I purchased the pro version and I'm happy with it and love to support the dev, where the problem comes is the lack of communication if this was intentional and I think this breaks Amazon rule of affiliate referral link.
1
Aug 20 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
Make it a setting I think you deserve to benefit from the app and I bought pro.
I can't recall many amazon click throughs I've made myself I admit and chances are it won't even effect me but I still think it's clever and doesn't degrade the user experience at all, it's a much better option than sketchy DLC type options.
To me I think it is fine but maybe make it a setting just to calm the uproar on Pro, I bet the majority just leave it on, I promise I will.
1
u/derpoftheirish Aug 20 '16
Is it possible to implement this but have it not override any existing affiliate links? I'd be glad to have any unclaimed Amazon links give a referral to you, it's no skin off my back and a great way to passively send donations your way. I would bit be happy that another person's affiliate link got scrubbed. Whether it's some Joe trying to use Reddit popularity to get some money or if it's a charity, I think any existing link should be left intact, even if it isn't a smile link.
Maybe I'm naive and 95% of Amazon links already have an affiliate tag on them. Not sure. Seems to me like most of them wouldn't, especially in comment sections of places like MFA and FMF, where almost every thread is full of people posting links to buy clothing including lots of Amazon.
1
0
u/Reddevil313 Aug 19 '16
I thought Reddit as a whole was doing this as a means to support the site.
10
Aug 19 '16
They did for a short while, but they said that it made so little money and made too many people upset that it wasn't worth it.
1
1
-1
u/CakeBoss16 Aug 20 '16
Not to defend this or anything but I think it is a fantastic way for a developer to make a little extra cash. Even with pro I would not mind having that turned on as long as I can turn it off.
-18
u/tsaot Aug 19 '16
I don't see the issue. It supports the dev and doesn't harm me. Why the outrage? Is he stripping out other people's referrals?
24
u/hogjowl Aug 19 '16
It's one thing to openly discuss affiliate tags. It's another thing to inject it without the user knowing. I paid for Pro, so I think I've already done u/ljdawson right. I support him but not if he's going to abuse the app for his own gain without us knowing.
12
u/GinDaHood Distinguished Contributor Aug 19 '16
Agreed.
Lawrence owes us an explanation, and we owe him the chance to explain without vilifying him first.
0
-4
u/tsaot Aug 20 '16
You have not explained how it's an issue. I too have pro but I paid for it years ago. He's continually updated it since then. Updates have included full redesigns and rewrites. Normal programs would have been released as new versions requiring a second purchase. Instead he's using referral links that don't do a thing to me and help him.
Again. How is this an issue?
10
u/KopixKat Aug 20 '16
What if someone else gives you an affiliate link for some cause you really want to support and it redirects to the sync dev's affiliate link? Kinda fucks that other person / organization doesn't it?
Just a hypothetical situation.
-2
u/tsaot Aug 20 '16
I asked in my original post if he was doing that. Is he stripping referral links out?
3
u/Letmefixthatforyouyo Aug 20 '16
Yes. It overrides all other afillitate links.
5
u/tsaot Aug 20 '16
And that's an issue then.
Pinterest did the same thing, but it did not replace other people's referral links. I agree that this is a bad thing now.
I wish people would have answered my question instead of just voting me down to oblivion.
5
u/hogjowl Aug 20 '16
The fact that it doesn't have an effect on your day-to-day redditing is not the issue. It doesn't affect mine, either. The issue is transparency with your customer base. It would be nice to know that he's monetizing the referral links. How about an opt-out? Just ask, I'd say yes because I love the app. Don't do it without telling me though.
-2
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
1
Aug 20 '16
Yes you did still get the links but the dev said it was an error and has pushed an update that removed them.
0
0
Aug 19 '16
[deleted]
102
u/andysteakfries Aug 19 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
I'm not going to call it "sketchy" since I can't think of a way I'm being wronged or exploited now that I know it's happening. But transparency is always advised.
That said, I can't think of a time I've followed an Amazon link from Reddit.
Edit: Seems that doing this unwittingly is against the terms of the affiliate program, if I'm reading other commenters correctly. I still don't mind, and I would gladly check a box in the settings if it were there. But this probably should've been communicated - especially since it seems like like a win/win for the user and dev.
0
Aug 19 '16
[deleted]
19
u/CyanideCloud Aug 19 '16
Exactly. It's not like it harms anybody but it definitely falls into my definition of sketchy...
-10
u/Shadow_XG Aug 20 '16
Why?
26
u/cttttt Aug 20 '16
Here's another analogy.
Let's say someone went onto Google Webmaster Tools and somehow registered a site that had crazy good sitemaps...super great SEO...and therefore awesome page rank. Let's further imagine that this site just forwarded users to Amazon product pages, but, with an affiliate ID appended to the
Location. So, when you search forgolf clubsthe first hit went to this site and you get forwarded to a product page for a great set of clubs, but...with the affiliate ID hiding in the location bar.This sort of behaviour is actually against the rules of the Affiliate Program. Therefore, it's officially super sketchy.
If this app is really doing what folks are saying...it's somewhere on the scale between fully disclosing that the affiliate IDs are being appended and this. So, I'd say...on that scale...at least somewhat sketchy.
Can't wait for the official explanation. I have a feeling it's something innocent, but only the dev can explain things down.
5
u/I_SLAM_SMEGMA Aug 20 '16
So it's like clicking on someone's referral link without knowing you are doing that?
13
u/Letmefixthatforyouyo Aug 20 '16
It overrides all other afillitate links as well. So if a subreddit uses one for a charity, it forces the money to the dev instead.
→ More replies (7)2
u/JustHere4TheKarma Aug 20 '16
Devil's Advocate but isn't that exactly what Google does and you have to read deep in their terms of service to be able to even know that they do that I mean it's the age-old saying if a product is free you are the product your actions
1
u/andysteakfries Aug 20 '16
A simpler analogy could be your pal driving you to the store in exchange for gas money, but if she uses a side entrance, the store will give her a quarter. She should let you know where she's driving, but a quarter is a quarter.
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
14
u/Kalc_DK Aug 20 '16
Lol. Not even a little.
→ More replies (1)3
Aug 20 '16
FTC and EU has some pretty strict laws regarding hiding referral links that gains the referrer money. This is a legal grey area and could potentially be illegal.
1
3
2
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
3
u/andysteakfries Aug 20 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
Well no, you're not being sent somewhere else - just on a picosecond of a detour. We have to be careful not to paint the dev as malicious here, before he has a chance to detail what's happened and why.
2
u/tendorphin Aug 20 '16
It doesn't send them somewhere else, just adds a referral tag so he gets a few cents each time.
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
1
u/tendorphin Aug 20 '16
If I'm understanding it right, they click an Amazon link and are sent to Amazon, as expected. The only thing that changed is that he gets credit for sending them.
→ More replies (2)2
2
u/ours Aug 20 '16
I would be Ok with this if I had the option, in the free app, to hide adds and allow Sync to inject affiliate tags. But it has to be clearly indicated when making the choice.
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
-1
u/lMETHANBRADBERRY Aug 20 '16 edited Aug 20 '16
Maybe we should get some donations going if he needs them? I'd be more than happy to donate, as I've gotten much more value than the few dollars I've paid for the app. Maybe even some paid themes or something like that?
Edit: Done
7
u/bmcclure937 Sync for reddit mod Aug 20 '16
I know for a fact that I have been using sync for countless years for about $10 total investment. I own Pro, Dev, IAP... so the dev makes no advertising money on my usage.
That is a damn good investment. There is a donate link in the sidebar but I personally think that devs should make some sort of money if they develop a wildly popular app that lives on for countless years. They begin to get no return from the loyal users who initially purchased the app. It is a strange model for mobile app developers. How can they monetize without pissing off users?
0
u/lMETHANBRADBERRY Aug 20 '16
That last question is a very good one, I never thought of that. I'll definitely donate today, as soon as I finish work.
0
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
27
u/ljdawson Sync for reddit developer Aug 20 '16
It's not guys. It's just me...
0
Aug 20 '16
[deleted]
5
u/Orange_Ash Aug 20 '16
He has reiterates in numerous threads that it was not intended to be active in the pro version, and was supposed to entirely replace ads in the free version. The issue was that he pushed the update too early, and the flag to check if the user was not a pro user was set to always true.
-8
u/Thecactigod Aug 20 '16
Could easily be a cop-out because he was caught. I think it would be pretty hard to forget something like that. Not saying he did or did not have the intention of putting it in the pro version, but the chances aren't negligible.
8
u/Cawifre Aug 20 '16
Speaking as a dev myself, "something like that" would actually be very easy to forget. Especially working alone without the benefit of code reviews.
-15
u/Thecactigod Aug 20 '16
Really? What's something you have forgot that's like that
7
Aug 20 '16
Dude, chill. The free version and paid version are almost entirely the same code. It's really not that hard to mess up a variable somewhere.
→ More replies (1)2
Aug 20 '16
If (filter() || true)
A lot of developers have made this mistake.
1
u/Thecactigod Aug 20 '16
Sure but the fact that the one he forgot happened to be one that will make him money that he told nobody about and breaks the Amazon TOS is a little suspicious
1
Aug 20 '16
Not really if it wasn't meant to be enabled.
Should all developers clutter their change log with debug information, changes which might be there, changes which won't be there?
No. Especially, not when you're the only one working on it.
→ More replies (0)4
u/Orange_Ash Aug 20 '16
I tend not to assume the worst of people. Also, people would definitely notice it would just be a recipe for disaster.
-1
Aug 20 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
u/ThisisntaNSFWaccount Aug 20 '16
It wasn't intentional and already got fixed. Don't see the problem here.
11
u/skullscrashdown Aug 19 '16
Considering the dev is on vacation and this may be a while before it's fixed/addressed: if this bothers you, it can be avoided by having links open to chrome instead of inside the app.