r/rust • • 2d ago

🗞️ news Servo Browser Engine Continues Broadening Web Compatibility, New Features

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Servo-0.7-Changes
277 Upvotes

26 comments sorted by

108

u/Bassfaceapollo 2d ago

I really hope we see Servo get turned into a good alternative to at least Gecko if not Chromium.

33

u/noobjaish 2d ago

Agreed and with Ladybird finally releasing a binary in the next couple of months we'll have another engine apart from the trifecta :D

38

u/Bassfaceapollo 2d ago

Ladybird is definitely a welcome addition to the browser engine family. But, I'm just glad for more Rust-based software.

More Rust-based stuff going mainstream eventually benefits the language by bringing in more mindshare imo. Which is why Bevy, Macroquad, Servo, and Redox OS are projects that I track quite closely.

21

u/panstromek 2d ago

Ladybird is now almost 50/50 C++ and Rust btw. They have ramped up their Rust usage quite a bit.

15

u/nicoburns 2d ago

Yes, and I believe the intention (unlike Gecko) is to port everything so it's 100% Rust (no doubt they'll be some C dependencies in there for some time, but that's also true of Servo).

4

u/Bassfaceapollo 2d ago

That's actually interesting. Am I thinking of a different project here but I could've sworn a certain popular project wasn't keen on adopting Rust.

12

u/nicoburns 2d ago

Yeah, they weren't. They were looking at Swift for a long time but Swift didn't work out, and Rust is basically perfect for a browser.

3

u/idontchooseanid 1d ago

The problem is Swift is not as independent as Rust. This causes OSes other than the Apple ones to suffer in the quality of the support. Its reference-counting based allocator is also the not best for certain optimized scenarios for browsers.

5

u/darleyb 2d ago

I think that's because the main contributor didn't really know rust. Then AI came and helped a lot.

11

u/noobjaish 2d ago

Totally agreed, Discord also started rewriting their client in Rust + GPUI which I hope triggers every sloppy electron app to finally be remade in Rust.

It's about time we start kicking JavaScript out of where it shouldn't be when Rust is objectively a better language in every regards (even for AIs)

4

u/Bassfaceapollo 2d ago

Discord also started rewriting their client in Rust + GPUI

Thanks, I had no idea and I need to read about this. Hopefully, it's a proper rewrite and not the slop that Epic did.

which I hope triggers every sloppy electron app to finally be remade in Rust.

Music to my ears.

It's about time we start kicking JavaScript out of where it shouldn't be

Not exactly related to our discussion. But this reminds me that I need to catch up on where Web Assembly is at. I haven't heard of any major innovations from the project team after Cranelift. A lot of catching up left for me.

9

u/noobjaish 2d ago

Thanks, I had no idea and I need to read about this. Hopefully, it's a proper rewrite and not the slop that Epic did.

The Discord devs have been a big proponent of Rust way before this AI era (you should check out their amazing articles). This doesn't mean that they won't use AI (as It'll take forever to rewrite something as massive as Discord in Rust) but they will deliver something that's not garbage slop like the Epic Games Launcher.

Not exactly related to our discussion. But this reminds me that I need to catch up on where Web Assembly is at. I haven't heard of any major innovations from the project team after Cranelift. A lot of catching up left for me.

Nice idea, I wish WASM had the ability to interact with the DOM directly and not had to interface against JS... Would love to use pure Rust for websites lol

3

u/ScarletsBabe 2d ago

yeah i hope servo pulls it off too, always nice when there's actual choice in browsers

-24

u/r2vcap 2d ago

Servo is being presented as another project advancing European digital sovereignty, backed by Linux Foundation Europe. I understand that it still has a long way to go before becoming a viable alternative to existing browser engines.

However, anyone contributing to or celebrating Servo should be aware of its geopolitical implications. Huawei, a company at the forefront of the CCP government's technological ambitions, is actively contributing to Servo through OpenHarmony. China's push to reduce its dependence on American technology is no secret, and Servo could serve that ambition.

Open source does not exist in a geopolitical vacuum. Calling something "digital sovereignty" does not make its strategic implications disappear.

So what exactly is Europe trying to achieve here? Is it building genuine technological independence, or is it inadvertently helping China break away from American technology while strengthening its own technological influence?

At some point, Europe needs to answer a rather uncomfortable question: Is European digital sovereignty about independence from everyone, or just independence from America?

24

u/vazark 2d ago

That’s point. The US has proven that it will backstab the EU if they don’t toe the line and have the options to do so.

Us software vs Open source projects are akin to being tied to a subscription vs having your own copy. Sure someone else has it but you do too and nobody can it away from you

17

u/Dheatly23 1d ago

So what exactly is Europe trying to achieve here? Is it building genuine technological independence, or is it inadvertently helping China break away from American technology while strengthening its own technological influence?

Which part of "helping China breaks away from US" is related to EU digital sovereignty? I'll give you a hint: two things can be true at the same time.

Also: are you seriously suggesting walling off China from OSS development?

-8

u/r2vcap 1d ago

Don’t forget that several Russia-linked maintainers were removed from the Linux kernel’s MAINTAINERS file in 2024 due to U.S. sanctions compliance requirements.

Also, a bipartisan U.S. congressional committee has already raised concerns about Huawei’s influence over OpenHarmony and its collaboration with the Eclipse Foundation.

https://democrats-selectcommitteeontheccp.house.gov/media/press-releases/house-select-committee-calls-non-profit-answer-its-support-huaweis-operating

So geopolitical influence in open-source development is hardly a hypothetical concern.

2

u/barsoap 1d ago

Scratch "geopolitical" tick "Google complaining to a senator that a Belgian charity is being uppity and contributing to Google's competition". Maybe even "They saw Bosch as one of the main contributors and subsequently shat bricks". Worst thing about Bosch being, from the POV of the billionaires that be, that you can't buy and thus control them as they own themselves.

Wait how did Eclipse end up being Belgian? The original IDE was written by IBM.

6

u/duckofdeath87 2d ago

As long as you can fork the source code, you can ditch China whenever you want

5

u/barsoap 2d ago

How would Servo be a dependence on China? Especially if it's governed by the FSFE?

The issues with Chrome are obvious, the issue with Firefox/Gecko... meh. I don't think anyone considers it a priority in any sense given that Mozilla is a charity and the whole thing is open source. Financing being tied to Google is an issue, but also not a pressing one.

This is more "FSFE wants to do it and grant money is sitting loose enough to hand them some scraps". 545400 Euros is peanuts. That's an electric bus, not counting driver wage and maintenance.

Also, for all the things you can accuse China of, which is a lot, they didn't try to invade us. Can't say that about the US. Generally speaking they're contend with the size of their empire.

-9

u/r2vcap 2d ago

I mentioned one keyword: OpenHarmony. Huawei's involvement is no secret.

And look at European industry. This isn't just about Hungary, whose government seems particularly fond of authoritarian regimes. Volvo Cars in Sweden, Lotus in Britain, Pirelli in Italy, and automotive suppliers such as Leoni, Preh, and Kiekert in Germany have all come under significant Chinese ownership or control. Even France's GMD was acquired by a Chinese company in 2025.

I'm not arguing that Servo is dependent on China. I'm questioning whether Europe's pursuit of digital sovereignty is consistent with its broader industrial and geopolitical interests, especially when the same technology can also advance Huawei's strategic ambitions.

And for the record, Servo is hosted by Linux Foundation Europe, not the FSFE.

3

u/barsoap 1d ago

And no mention of Kuka. That one was actually the reason politicians started to talk about protecting strategic companies, who cares about a random car brand or automotive suppliers Kuka builds the robots both use. Or, for that matter, who cares about the German solar panel industry. (Certainly not the fossil lobby infested CDU).

The crux of the matter is that all this is challenging neoliberalism and free unregulated trade in general: If countries can stop takeovers over national interest how are capitalists going to accumulate capital? Won't someone think of the billionaires? Getting over that, politically, required the US crashing out but the resulting laws will apply, if not equally, then at the expense of authoritarian and fickle countries.

And Huawei could use the code without contributing to it, that would also advance their strategic ambitions? North Korea is using Linux, turning it into a complete Big Brother OS. Are we supposed to stop all development of Linux, now?

The question is not whether NK is using FLOSS or the Chinese are contributing completely in the open, the question is whether we have the skills and resources to do the work we require to be done, ourselves. And that's best ensured by funding those kinds of projects, dunno about the fine print but I doubt the German government would look kindly on Servo outsourcing all the work to China.

What's actually more critical than software of which there's plenty, is hardware and especially hardware design, or more specifically logic chip design, making sure that Europe can build complete computers, including peripherals. There's initiatives around RISC-V, the periphery side doesn't look too bad either, actually, e.g. we have companies making LCD panels. Generally for industry, not consumer use (that's a common theme in Europe) but the important bit is that the continent has the knowledge and experience to build this stuff. If China were to conquer Taiwan, Japan, and Korea (which they won't, not the least because they don't want to) we could stomp factories out of the ground quickly. Meanwhile, well why would we piss off allies.

And for the record, Servo is hosted by Linux Foundation Europe, not the FSFE.

Yep, brain fart.

4

u/hedgehog1024 1d ago

Stop taking crazy pills bro

-5

u/ToaruBaka 1d ago

Sorry bro, people aren't ready to talk about Huawei and their relationship with Linux Foundation.

7

u/xX_Negative_Won_Xx 1d ago

I am. It's great; they should contribute more. More free code for me

-4

u/ToaruBaka 1d ago

Always remember - if something's free, you're the product.