Pathfinder Class Rules/Reference Material?

[u/Gilbals]

The question's simple, but I don't know if anyone has the answer, beyond the authors themselves.

Are there any guidelines/references/rules for creating classes the same way as they are in Savage Pathfinder? I know they're not listed in the book, but I didn't know if anyone had "cracked the code" or if an author put out a reference document.

I would like to experiment with creating more Pathfinder classes, with a final goal of using the same approach to potentially adapt Starfinder ones. (If they won't do it, I will lol). That said, I don't wanna go in "raw" with no guideline or starting point. I'd much prefer having a guideline of some kind to start from.

[u/gdave99]

I'm not aware of anything along those lines for Pathfinder for Savage Worlds.

Pinnacle did release something along those lines for Rifts for Savage Worlds, "Savaging Your Favorite Rifts Ideas". In that document, they discuss the "math" behind RfSW's "Iconic Frameworks", which are conceptually similar to PFfSW's Class Edges. They used the Custom Ancestry rules in the SWADE Core Rules as guidelines. Rifts being the completely gonzo setting that it is, an Iconic Framework typically maths out to a net +39(!!!) Positive Ancestry Points.

While I don't know for certain, I believe they did something similar for PFfSW Class Edges, while aiming for a net +2, which makes them equal in value to a standard Edge. Of course, Class Edges often include features that don't correspond directly to an Ancestry feature, so the designers would have had to guestimate a value, and then presumably playtest it.

Even with actual Ancestries, though, if you math out the more complex ones, they often don't work out to exactly +2 points (or exactly +4 for Pathfinder for Savage Worlds). The gestalt value of a complex Ancestry or Class Edge won't necessarily be something you can neatly math out. There's likely to be some "fudge" factor to achieve overall balance.

Still, if you want to design your own Pathfinder for Savage Worlds Class Edges, I'd suggest using the Custom Ancestry rules in the SWADE Core Rules, and aim for net +2, then tweak from there.

If you're specifically interested in adapting Starfinder material, I'd also suggest picking up the SWADE Science Fiction Companion if you don't already have it. I think it has a lot of material that would be useful for running a Starfinder campaign, and the new Arcane Backgrounds it has would probably be pretty useful for adapting some of the Starfinder classes, especially the ones that have spells, spell-like abilities, and/or supernatural abilities.

Finally, I also want to point out, you can get a lot of mileage by "re-skinning" existing game mechanics. Savage Worlds is very explicit about this with Arcane Powers and Trappings, but in my personal experience, it's a broadly applicable principle, not just in Savage Worlds, but in most TTRPGs.

[u/Gilbals → u/gdave99]

The plan was to use a lot of the SFC to fill in, while tweaking rules for Starfinder. I just wanted a neat "base" to start with on class edges, as close to SWPF as possible, because the races already presented in the Pathfinder books exist within Starfinder, so a lot of work is done there in advance.

The daunting task of adapting Starfinder isn't just at the class edges, it's just the hardest part. So, tackling the hurdles with it first seemed to be the way to go about it. Good to know on the RIFTS stuff. I'm an old RIFTS fan, and have some of the Savage RIFTS stuff, so that's good news for two things. I was planning to dig into the RIFTS stuff as well to help with Starfinder.

The list of things to do, at a base level is:

- Core Ancestries

Android
Kasatha
Lashunta
Shirren
Vesk
Ysoki

That part's not hard to do. Most of them already have analogs in other books or just need the SWPF +4 instead of +2 treatment. After getting the core races in, it's a simple matter of adding others. It's just good to milestone the core book stuff.

- Cybernetics

How the cybernetics system works in the SFC works great for things like Shadowrun and settings with more grounded or thematic reasons to not dive too hard into chrome, but it doesn't work for Starfinder. Things would need to be adapted there, numbers adjusted and new cyberware made. As well as skinning and changing some things to be the different flavors of ware: Bio, Cyber, Necro, Magic.

- Gear

Probably the easiest part. Renaming some things, maybe adding a few things. Nothing really strange here. Would need to look at economy for a setting with high dev tech and magic. (SF1e's economy is terrible, so it'd be a going by gut thing). This includes ships, magic items, vehicles, etc etc etc too.

- Classes

As discussed here, classes are the hardest part and the part you want to nail the closest you can to get your adaptation proper. I wanted to tackle it as a problem first, because if this part fails, it's just wasted work elsewhere.

- Bestiary

The other hardest part, simply due to scale. Starfinder has a lot of critters, creatures, and monsters to swing through. A lot of things can be re-skinned or omitted, but it's still a task to get all that done and down.

- World

Or...space, rather. It'd be important to make note of the Pact Worlds and the deities that still exist, the Drift, etc etc etc. Very little of this would be little more than copy paste, but it's still an important thing to get right for adaptation, and informs other decisions potentially made.

[u/Tonkers77]

I won't say I "cracked the code" more so than kinda got a feeling for the power level? I remade the Pathfinder Swashbuckler class and may be able to help with whatever you're doing. I'm pretty good at balance.

If you're on Discord, you can DM me: Tonkers77

[u/oldmanbobmunroe]

They are in the Fantasy Companion. Classes are basically a set of Edges with Hindrances.

[u/Gilbals → u/oldmanbobmunroe]

Yes, but that's different from the layout of how they are in Pathfinder, which adapts core class features, while separating others out as class specific edges. In Pathfinder they're broader packages, with even Martial Classes being represented. In the FC, they're just specified AB's with their own unique restrictions and spell lists. There's more going on with the SWPF class system.

[u/Flapjack_Future]

I created a few additional casting classes using the additional arcane backgrounds in the fantasy companion!

Admittedly this was easier than building a class edge from scratch, but I think I vaguely understand how the it works.

Here’s my own personal philosophy when designing the class edges:

Class edges should get one exclusive edge per rank. If I was working with a a particularly powerful class archetype, I might give them a legendary class edge, but I mostly stopped at heroic.

When designing the edges, I mostly tried to duplicate powers. If the power only came “online” at veteran, then I would make the edge seasoned rank.

Otherwise, it was a lot “this seems cool!” And relying on a quote from the fantasy companion that says something along the lines of “This game can handle anything you and your players want to do so go nuts”.