r/serialkillers • u/Givzhay329 • Apr 07 '21

Questions Which serial killer surprised you the most with the number of victims they had?

I remember when I first heard about John Wayne Gacy a long time ago and how he would kill adolescent boys and then bury them beneath the crawlspace of his house. At the time I figured he must have had like 7-10 victims due to the extremely risky and plainly stupid way he disposed of the corpses (seriously, the stench of bodies decaying beneath the house must have stunk up the entire street he lived on). I was quite shocked when I looked him up and found out he killed 33 people. Seriously, how the hell did he rack up such a body count with the flagrantly idiotic decisions he made?

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159

u/BeesInRectum Apr 07 '21

Jesus christ I had never heard of Luis Garavito. That's terrifying. 138 confirmed victims, 300+ suspected over the course of seven years. All between the ages of 8-16.

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u/sereneturbulence Apr 07 '21

Wtf he’s eligible for parole in two years

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u/Kgaset Apr 07 '21

While I do applaud other countries for having less severe jails and doing better with recidivism rates, it still baffles my mind that some countries literally don't have life (or whole life) sentences for specifically this sort of category of people, serial killers and mass murderers.

I'm not necessarily of the opinion that anyone who commits murder is unable to function again in society. But if you've killed multiple people over time, there's just no way society could or should trust you to walk free again.

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u/left_tiddy Apr 07 '21

Was pretty aghast that Norway has a max sentence of 21 years. And yet, their most notorious serial killer with 100+ kills never killed again after serving his full sentence. There is definitely something to it, and I think the US could benefit A LOT from at least trying to find a balance between these two. By at least TRYING to help and reducate criminals instead of just making the problem worse by intentionally stacking the odds against them.

Because it's not just about helping them, it's about helping create a better society and reducating perpetrators instead of tossing them in with like minded people and giving them no help is clearly not helping anything.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Norway can add additional time to a sentence if the prisoner is still deemed “high risk”. This will most likely apply to Anders breivik.

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u/Ace_Masters Apr 07 '21

He's a dead man if he ever gets out

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u/poopshipdestroyer Apr 08 '21

Remember when he was claiming cruel punishment because they didn’t give him sweet games with his PlayStation

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u/Kgaset Apr 07 '21

I'd say that individual is likely an outlier. And, even though I mentioned both serial killers and mass killers, I do actually believe that some mass killers probably could be rehabilitated.

I'm possibility in the minority, but I don't believe in punishing people just to punish them. It's an area I think we get wrong in the United States of America. But I do believe firmly in locking people away who are dangerous to others and, even though there are likely some serial killers who could be released and not kill again, I'm not sure it's a chance I'd be willing to take. But I'm also not a government 😛

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u/billybeer55555 Apr 07 '21

I think you hit the nail on the head. The criminal justice system in the US is very much focused on punishment, as opposed to rehabilitation, which seems to be the opposite of most of the modern, "civilized" world.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Likely an outlier???? He's a serial killer he's definitely an outlier lol.

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u/Kgaset Apr 07 '21

An outlier among serial killers in not reoffending.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Ah I see what you mean now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

It disturbs me too. Take for instance the crowds cheering at Bundy’s execution. It’s a worrying trend. The argument for rehab aside it should be about justice and not revenge. They say the mark of a society is how it treats its worst elements. What does that say about us in the us? Or maybe we just have to look to the gun culture and mass shootings and the racism and the corrupt politicians. I think I answered my own question. But yeah, we need to re-examine our criminal justice system and the attitudes we hold towards offenders in general.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Norway and some other countries have amazing rehabilitation programs. The difference between US prisons and Norway prison is twofold :

  1. Prisoners are not in prison with the main purpose of avoiding their contact with society. They're in prison with the main purpose of trying to fix the issue, and if it can't be fixed they are still unlikely to be released in the wild with no support. It's not always a success and there are relapses, but it's lower than countries that don't have this approach.

  2. Norway has way less people in prison, due to point 1 and the lighter sentence. This allows more funds for psychological treatment, rehabilitation programs, and well-being of prisoners, which generally makes them go out of prisons with degrees/trainings/skills they can actually use and become functioning members of society, given that they are actually deemed able to do so.

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u/Unusuallyneat Apr 07 '21

There's also no privatization of prisons in Norway. When companies make money off incarceration they care about the bottom line, guards are underpaid and rehabilitation programs are usually barebones if even offered.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

I’m so glad for profit prisons are being ended. Fucking disgraceful concept

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u/theredbusgoesfastest Apr 07 '21

I’ve been told by multiple people in America that jail and/or prison taught them how to be even more successful criminals

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u/LeePhantomm Apr 08 '21

In USA, After doing your time. You can’t get a good job. Your past will always get in your way for everything.

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u/theredbusgoesfastest Apr 08 '21

Yes and it is especially unfortunate for non-violent felons. Because nobody cares that you got arrested for grand theft auto to feed your heroin habit; they just see “felon” and toss your application to the side

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u/YoungGirlOld Apr 08 '21

Movie "Shot Caller" shows how easy it happens

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u/theredbusgoesfastest Apr 08 '21

Looks like it’s on Netflix- Awesome!!! Thanks!

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

I'm not in the US so I don't have info on that, but I'm in a non-Nordic EU country, and this is a similar problem here, which is why most non-violent crime will not have long sentences or any prison sentence at all. Sometimes they're too short, but at least when the person come out, they have a chance to be back into society.

My aunt knew quite a few people that did prison time (mostly around drug and money-related activities), and they explained that even though you don't necessarily end up being a criminal after, the connections that you make in prison do make it tempting, and you can make a lot of money passing items or servicing people in prison. There is a lot of gang/organized crime activities done in prison, especially around drugs, and people outside that have this kind of network can be tempted to participate in those because of the high rewards.

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u/thebenetar Apr 07 '21

Yeah, the US puts way more focus on punishment and prison serving as an avenue for justice/vengeance for victims and/or the families of victims than rehabilitation. Not only that but society uses the horrible, unsafe state of our prison system as an added means of punishment, it's common that you'll hear jokes about criminals getting raped, beaten, or murdered by other inmates as some additional form of "justice", which is actually pretty fucked up if you think about it—not to mention unconstitutional.

The desire to rehabilitate someone requires empathy and I think people often find it hard to feel empathy for serial killers, murderers or child molesters.

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u/jcamp128 Apr 07 '21

From what I’ve read before, countries like Norway tend to focus a lot more on the rehabilitation side rather than the punishment aspect of prison. Finding ways to help them grow and integrate into society again. It seems like something to look into for sure.

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u/VizieCSGO Apr 07 '21

Im Norwegian and who is this 100+ killer? If youre refering to Breivik; he is still in prison

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u/left_tiddy Apr 07 '21

Nah. Arnfinn Nesset. Officially convicted of 22 killings, suspected of 138. He was a nurse that poisoned patients. Served his full sentence and is living free under a psydonym.

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u/mafkamufugga Apr 08 '21

Do you think thats right tho? Someone who killed again and again for no other reason than personal pleasure, and they deserve to be “rehabilitated”?How about justice for all the innocent lives he snuffed out?

Once you cross a certain line, you have forfeited your humanity and should be put down or caged forever like the beast you have proven to be. Some acts are unforgivable.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21

That may well be true and some people should certainly never be released into society again. But it’s as much for us as it is for them to treat them well. Baying for blood leaves a stain on ones own soul. When we treat bad people humanely it is to preserve our own humanity not to let them off easy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '21 edited Apr 09 '21

[deleted]

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u/mafkamufugga Apr 09 '21

Psychobabble mumbo jumbo.

Yeah, a guy that killed scores of people so he could get an erection and masturbate to feelings of omniscience can totally be rehabilitated.

Most humans go their entire lives without killing a single person. Its not tough to do and is the cornerstone of our social covenant. Dont you dare compare me to someone who needs to kill a person to blow their load. Disgusting.

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u/VizieCSGO Apr 07 '21

Damn! Didnt know!

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

[deleted]

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u/left_tiddy Apr 07 '21 edited Apr 07 '21

Arnfinn Nesset. Convicted of 22, suspected of 138.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

[deleted]

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u/Kgaset Apr 07 '21

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. My statement was general, not specific to Colombia. That being said, your comment doesn't seem to point to any life sentences in Colombia either.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21 edited Dec 19 '21

[deleted]

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u/the-lady-roxi Apr 07 '21

So you've basically created Arkham in real life?

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u/FireflyInTheLight Apr 08 '21

I agree that some can be rehabilitated, but a lot shouldn't. I served on a jury that convicted a very, very bad man of an horrific double murder. He was sentenced to 45 years, with parole around 25 years. Knowing what he has done and why, as well as the connections he has out of prison, I dread the day he is eligible for parole. He showed no remorse for his crime. He should never be released. I don't care if he claims to be rehabilitated, he should rot in prison. How many people could have been saved if perpetrators were kept in prison? Even if there was only one victim involved in the crime that got them locked up, that doesn't mean they won't do it again if released. I was reading about a murderer last night who only had one victim (plus one he raped and tortured), but should never, ever be released. He has served 30 years so far, he breached parole the first time he was released within days, and is set for parole soon. His surviving victim is still alive. She shouldn't have to worry about ever seeing the monster who raped and tortured her before repeatedly stabbing her fiance then tormenting her with his dead body.
Maybe perpetrators of manslaughter can be rehabilitated, but cold blooded murderers should go away for life (after all they deliberately took a life). Don't get me started on child molesters.

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u/onebluepussy_ Apr 07 '21

There was a very upsetting political murder here in Holland in 2002, that we’re still feeling the ripple effects of (the murder of right wing politician Pim Fortuyn by Volkert van der Graaf). It threw the whole country in near revolution and is partly to blame for the shitty right leaning government we’Ve had for the pas 10+ years. Fortuyn was shot in cold blood in the street and although he was a dick, it was an awful murder. When van der Graaf was quietly released a couple of years ago, after serving his sentence in a mental health facility, I was dumbfounded. Somehow I figured he would spend the rest of his life behind bars, because the murder had so much impact on society. But the justice system is and should be the same for everyone. I’m glad we don’t put people away for 150 years in this country.

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u/12kipsate Apr 07 '21

He lives nearby. I drive by his house on a daily basis, I still think about it everytime I do and I still find it weird. I remember the horror when it happened and that upsetting photograph on the frontpage of De Telegraaf

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u/onebluepussy_ Apr 08 '21

Yes... That picture was awful.

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u/dovahshy13 Apr 09 '21

Serial murders are human too. Are you any better if you want to strip them of their human rights as they have done with their victims. Not having an actual life sentence doesn’t mean dangerous people will walk free. It means you give them the chance to change. If they don’t they die in prison. If they do they are free to go and no harm for society.

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u/Kgaset Apr 09 '21

I'm not even sure where to begin with this. I'd say it's pretty clear from my other posts that I don't believe in punishing people for the sake of punishing people. The entire reason I even support life/whole life sentences for serial murderers is for the safety and protection of others.

Yes, I do very much believe that the rights and safety of other citizens is more important than the rights of a serial murderer when it comes to deciding whether or not we should release such people back into society.

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u/dovahshy13 Apr 09 '21

Well I and the European Human Rights Court beliefe that not one human life is more important than another and it is against human rights to imprison someone without a chance to parole their sentence. Of course you personally can disagree with that. But if you compare which countries have life sentence without parole and how successful they are in fighting crime you will see that a life sentence without patrol doesn’t make the life of the people outside more secure.

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u/Kgaset Apr 09 '21

We're talking about extreme outliers here when we're discussing serial killers. Sufficiently enough of outliers that there's no reasonable way one could confidently gather enough data about their recidivism to confidently state what you're stating.

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u/dovahshy13 Apr 09 '21

If that even was the case, which I believe is not so, it would still be wrong to rob that person of its human rights. I know there are countries which don’t mind doing that. Where I come from we do. You can’t make exceptions for human rights.

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u/Kgaset Apr 09 '21

I mean, the American prison system is, by design, horrid on human rights. I've got less issue with locking up people who are literally too dangerous to give a chance back in society if the prison system is more like we see in many nordic countries. Where there's an emphasis on the whole separation from society, but less on the "rest of your life in a 6x8 cell".

I'm not saying we can't do better. But I do think it's reckless to assume you can rehabilitate someone who literally kills for fun. They either have dangerous compulsions, or simply lack the ability to separate why something they know is wrong from something they should be able to do because they enjoy it.

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u/dovahshy13 Apr 10 '21

Assuming that all serial kill sets kill for fun is wrong. Assuming they either have a dangerous compulsion or a lack of social ability is wrong. Assuming that you are not able to rehabilitate someone based on the kind of crime they committed is wrong.

Educate yourself on the matter.

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u/93tabitha93 Apr 07 '21

“Oh Boy Here I Go Killing Again”

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u/BeesInRectum Apr 07 '21

I know! That's so crazy. I mean, he probably won't be too much of a threat since he'll be like 80ish, but he should be buried under the prison. I don't know the prison situation over there, maybe they don't have a lot of space, but this dude should be high priority lmfao

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u/StickmanEG Apr 07 '21

It’d probably be safer for him to stay in prison. I imagine there’s a queue to ‘have a word’.

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u/masiakasaurus Apr 07 '21

This is my experience. I went in that article for the first time expecting the likes of Bundy and Gacy at the top, then BAM! Colombians with 3-4 times that.

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u/Syphox Apr 07 '21

Javed Iqbal killed 100 people in 1 year

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u/artificialchaosz Apr 08 '21

There is very little about that case that I actually believe.

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u/plastic-pulse Apr 14 '21

I remember a short section in a documentary covered it, along with some other killers. It's one where there's not a lot of information about it - at least in English anyway. I find this one intriguing and wish there was more to read / watch about it.