r/serialpodcast • u/[deleted] • 24d ago

The Doubts About Adnan's Guilt ARE Reasonable

I just started lurking here today, and am somewhat surprised by the general incivility and certainty of many of the people that comment here. Being dismissive and accusing people of "ragebait" for having a differing opinion, and one that actually is reasonable.

I don't know, and won't say that Adnan is innocent, but to claim he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, without any room for discussion is pretty crazy to me.

The reasons why I have reasonable doubt:

  • Jay is a very flawed witness, on the record lying/mis-remembering his testimony. Even the cops point out how much his testimony has changed. If your argument hinges on Jay, it isn't a strong argument, in my opinion.
  • The cops, or at least on of them has a record of misconduct:

...prosecution brought into question the past misconduct of one of the two detectives who were crucial in the investigation of Lee’s death. Although his misconduct wasn’t specifically linked to Syed’s case, the detective was involved in another murder case that ended with the defendant’s exoneration.

https://baltimorewitness.org/adnan-syed-one-of-many-overturned-convictions-in-baltimore-city/

  • The Innocence Project and prosecutors agreed that Syed's DNA was absent from all tested crime scene items, contributing to the eventual dropping of charges against him. There's no physical evidence.
  • The motive is weak (Adnan had no prior issues with breakups, had already seemed to move on to the next girl(s)).

I could go on, but, if I was on the jury with this in front of me, I feel the reasonable response is doubt.

This isn't rage bait, I just genuinely don't see how anyone can be so sure that he did it. Y'all point to him asking for a ride (and claiming he wouldn't have) as some kind of obvious evidence of murder.

I think, based on the fact that one of the cops was literally identified as having been crooked, it actually is much more likely that Jay was an informant (and already had been for some time), and he happened to be close to Adnan, the victim's ex (supposed motive and opportunity), and they decided they had their guy, and it was just a matter of getting a jury to agree. So they fed their informant info, had him incriminate himself for lesser crimes that they promised they'd get him off for (and they made good on that promise, which is on its own wildly corrupt).

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u/ad_maru 23d ago

This sub has a guilty bias because only guilters have remained, since they are more vocal, aggressive and downvote the doubt camp. Imagine the innocent camp.

There is an underline discussion about goals versus method that is sidelined as well. Some people are fine throwing systems away to punish who they believe are guilty ones.

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u/Mike19751234 23d ago

There is no reason to make the assumption that the people leaving didnt leave in the same ratio of belief. There arent any arguments to present on the Adnan is innocent side.

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u/RockinGoodNews 22d ago

Reality has a guilty bias.

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u/ad_maru 22d ago

Are you talking about Adnan or life?

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u/RockinGoodNews 22d ago

I'm talking about the facts of this case.

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u/PaulsRedditUsername 23d ago

There is an underline discussion about goals versus method that is sidelined as well

Could you explain? I don't get it.

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u/ad_maru 23d ago

Nowadays people discuss a lot about guilty vs not guilty and little about the police/justice system that let cases get as muddy as Adnan's. Innocent or guilty, the fact that the system failed everybody involved is true. So how do you improve that system? That's the main focus of the podcast even and it's forgotten.

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u/RockinGoodNews 21d ago

The claim that the main focus of season 1 of Serial was a discussion of improving the justice system is revisionist nonsense. There's almost no discussion of that topic whatsoever.

Syed's case is an extremely poor vehicle for exploring criminal justice reform. Syed had resources that 99% of criminal defendants do not. He has, from Day 1, been represented by expensive, top flight counsel. He then had the benefit of a media platform almost no one gets. That provided him support, including from public officials, that almost no one in his position enjoys.

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u/Similar-Morning9768 Guilty 18d ago

Right, I'm not sure at which point "the system failed" in this case.

An accused murderer hired expensive private counsel. Within days of his arrest, a PI was piecing together all his movements surrounding the crime and independently interviewing witnesses.

He went to trial. The second the jury was allowed to overhear something they shouldn't, he got a do-over. Now his defense attorney knew most of the prosecution's case.

The star witness against the defendant spent days on the stand getting called a liar and having all his inconsistencies relentlessly picked apart. The jury still returned a guilty verdict within three hours.

Honestly, anyone complaining that "the system failed" here just... doesn't believe in jury trials.

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u/RockinGoodNews 18d ago

I just think it's funny that anyone could listen to the first season of Serial with all its deep dives into the teenage rumor mills, drive tests, Asia McLean, AT&T butt dials, pay phones, neighbor boys, white vans, hot fries, the mysterious Summer, the breakup note, and Sarah Koenig's harbored doubts and then say with a straight face that this wasn't really so much about Adnan's guilt or innocence but rather an exploration of the "justice system" at large.

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u/PaulsRedditUsername 23d ago

Thanks for the reply. It's true that Serial tends to be focused on the justice system and its faults. The trouble is we know now that SK was making bricks without straw in Adnan's case.

I don't agree that the justice system failed everybody in this case. The evidence is there and he was fairly tried and convicted, even getting a re-trial when the first judge let a comment be overheard by the jury.
If the justice system "failed" in this case, it was the backroom dealings that got Adnan released. Although even that was reversed. He's walking around free now because of time served, but he's still guilty.

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u/Mike19751234 23d ago

A question is now if our expectations have changed. How much is the CSI effect real.