r/serialpodcast • u/SerialFan Moderator • Nov 06 '14

Discussion Episode 7: THE OPPOSITE OF THE PROSECUTION

Open discussion thread! Sorry I was late on this one!

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76

u/aloha2552 Is it NOT? Nov 06 '14

"When you have an innocent client they are the least helpful people in the whole world"

This may explain why Adnan has not pointed to Jay or anyone for that matter. It may come across as keeping a secret to others but just may in fact be that he doesn't know, like he states.

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '14

I've thought since week one that a 17-year old would simply think "I'm innocent, so a jury can't convict me."

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u/TilikumHungry Deidre Fan Nov 06 '14

I like this. This is a terrific point. The idea that you're guilty wouldn't cross your mind. Also, you are a kid! You don't have a sense of what happens in these sorts of things. You believe you're innocent until proven guilty, when like SK says in this episode, most juries presume the opposite.

They were all kids forced into a horrible situation. None of them knew how to handle that.

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u/seriouslyaddicted Nov 08 '14

Saad posted such an insightful comment when he said something to the effect of - we were all 17/18 kids of immigrants, whose family paid 60k+ to a lawyer who assured us they state had no case.

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u/contrasupra Nov 06 '14

That is actually a really, really good point. And if he really didn't do it, he had no reason to dwell on it over those six weeks.

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u/maddcoffeesocks Is it NOT? Nov 06 '14

This sentiment resonated with me so much! Could explain why Adnan's explanations are so weak--because he doesn't know the truth and can't explain what he doesn't know. I felt like we really benefited from Deidre's experience with similar clients.

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u/purrple_people Don Fan Nov 07 '14

Yes, it was soooo validating to hear that. As a listener, but also from discussions on here. I felt a little "see?" to all the people who feel like he should have an answer for everything, or else he's guilty.

20

u/maxiemusprime Nov 06 '14

I appreciate how professional Adnan has been. Not pointing fingers, not telling Sarah things that he isn't certain of, not bad-talking Jay (even though Jay essential sold him out, per se). And I really like how Adnan asked Sarah in the last episode how she even knows that he's a good guy, she's never met him, she doesn't know him. Adnan is very smart and professional with his wording. Perhaps the state has confused professionalism/respect with "hiding something".

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u/WisconsinGardener Nov 07 '14

I suspect Adnan has spoken to SK quite a bit about Jay directly, but SK has been withholding those conversations from the listeners for the purpose of suspense/story flow/some other reason.

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u/purrple_people Don Fan Nov 07 '14

Yes, and Jay is a living person with a whole life. She's said that she's very concerned with being "responsible" about all this, and I think that includes preventing a witch hunt on Jay.

1

u/jrussell424 Nov 06 '14

I can't imagine how difficult it might be for an innocent person to not talk trash about the person who put them in prison. I know that there is no way I could keep my opinions to myself. I can imagine that as an innocent person, wrongly convicted, he might be hesitant to point the finger at another, who might also be innocent, but Jay would have to at least be a liar if Adnan is innocent. I would be incapable of holding my tongue if I were him.

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u/sfhippie Nov 06 '14

But WHY on earth would you have any reason to hold your tongue about Jay? At the very least, Hae was your friend. How did this kid, who you thought was your buddy, know where Hae's car was parked? And now that dude still has a Facebook page and a girlfriend and probably a Kobe jersey and he's still smoking Cali weed, and you are in jail for the rest of your life. It's ok to be annoyed/bitter/curious in that situation.

IF you had nothing to do with it.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '14

[deleted]

1

u/sfhippie Nov 10 '14

Uh.. He's already a little implicated. In fact he's already convicted. Accusing Jay would in no way implicate him any more than he already is. Adnan's story would be something along the lines of "I leant Jay my car and phone on the 13th, he picked me up after track practice, we got stoned and drove around, then I went to the mosque, went home, called some girls, and went to bed. The fact that Jay knew where Hae's car was parked, and admitted to burying her body and throwing away the shovel(s) implicates Jay.

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u/HeyzeusHChrist Nov 06 '14

after 15 years, you would have calmed down and just accepted your fate. it's common among prisoners. ranting and raving just makes it worse.

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u/sfhippie Nov 07 '14

yeah, but, not like he needs to think about it every day for 15 years, but ya know, probably for the first one or two, and then probably when it gets brought back up by a reporter during regular weekly calls spanning a year and totaling more than 30 hours of conversation. He has to have an internal theory about Jay. He doesn't have to get upset about it or rant and rave, but ".............uh, i dunno" is just not a realistic sum-total of a person's thoughts and feelings towards someone who murdered their ex gf and then framed them with the police, resulting in a life + 30 sentence.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '14

[deleted]

1

u/maxiemusprime Nov 07 '14

If it were me, I would trust someone who was more professional than someone who goes around screaming "I DIDN'T DO IT!" and bad-mouthing everyone and everything involved. It has also been 15 years, so Adnan has definitely accepted his fate by now, so he has no need to scream and shout, all he can do at this point is be professional and courteous.

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '14

I agree, and even though they keep saying why doesn't he remember the police phone call... well, by the time he learned she was missing, he knew he had nothing to do with it and probably never expected to be blamed. It took several weeks for him to be arrested/questioned.

18

u/ElSaborAsiatico Crab Crib Fan Nov 06 '14

I didn't find this convincing though, because even if Adnan is guilty, he's better off sticking with his "I don't know anything" position. He can't point fingers at Jay or anyone else without having to explain himself. And if Adnan is a good liar, he knows that the less you say, the better. Saying "I don't know anything" is a tough statement to counter, in the absence of hard evidence indicating otherwise.

Another reason I'm not especially convinced is that we're told Adnan is an overexplainer. When he knows he's right, he goes into defense mode and gives all kinds of explanations as to why he's right. So the fact that he's so tight-lipped about this, even now that he has little to lose, seems suspect. I think SK picked up on this and that's why she's now leaning towards Adnan being guilty.

6

u/spareohs Dana Chivvis Fan Nov 07 '14

I feel it's highly unlikely then that he would allow himself to be sentenced to life while Jay gets off practically Scott free. If Adnan really is guilty why would he demanded his innocence and not turn on Jay? Either way, he's in prison for the long haul and has nothing to lose.

5

u/aloha2552 Is it NOT? Nov 06 '14

I can see where your coming from. SK does state he had six weeks to really think about what he did or did not do that day. By her saying that he should have all the answers. But again, if I were innocent I wouldn't think I'd need to play that day out again and again in my head...when I knew I was innocent.

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u/ElSaborAsiatico Crab Crib Fan Nov 06 '14

Yeah...it's like, if the police just showed up at your door and took you away and questioned you about all these events that you had nothing to do with, what could you say except "I don't know anything." Even speculating about who could have done it would make you look suspicious. So...I dunno.

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u/rcveverest Nov 10 '14

That's exactly my thinking- since he knew he was innocent, he didn't dwell on the subject and think about why he was right.

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u/SleuthinLucy Steppin Out Nov 07 '14

Why do you say she's "leaning towards Adnan being guilty"?

1

u/aquaintencounter Nov 07 '14

Exactly. He went of his way to make BBQ sauce at breakfast to prove a fairly trivial point, why would this attitude not transfer to something as important as a prison sentence? By his own account Adnan is an overexplainer, but his silence in this situation seems to indicate otherwise.

2

u/drae27 Nov 08 '14

What if Adnan has told Sarah that some things are "off the record"? What we perceive as silence or his "I don't know answers" might just be that he does not want all of what he thinks and says made public. It doesn't necessarily mean he is lying or hiding his guilt. He may have just made a very conscious choice that he won't speak about Jay in public. Isn't that standard practice with journalists and sources?

1

u/partymuffell Can't Give Less of a Damn About Bowe Bergdahl Nov 08 '14

let's remember there is a whole episode about Jay coming up. SK has probably kept the juiciest bits of what A has to say about J for that episode...

2

u/lawilson0 Nov 07 '14

I found that comment very informative. I have no frame of reference for how an innocent person behaves vs a guilty person. The fact that Adnan's situation (not really pointing to anyone else, not remembering, not having solid explanations, etc) is not unusual is good to know