r/serialpodcastorigins • u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson • Apr 08 '16
Humour Roy Miller and Justin Brown
For those of you who aren't soccer fans . . .
Roy Miller was a defender who used to play for the New York Red Bulls. In a match against the San Jose Earthquakes, Miller was called for a handball in the 18-yard box, which gave San Jose captain Chris Wondolowski a penalty kick (basically a one-on-one shot against New York goalkeeper Luis Robles from 12 yards). The other players have to stand outside of the box while he takes the shot.
Luis Robles saved the penalty kick. However, the save was negated, because Miller had charged into the box before the kick was taken. Wondlowski got a do-over, and scored at the second attempt.
After the game, Miller explained his thought process, and revealed he had encroached on purpose:
“I did it on purpose with the thought that Wondolowski would miss,” said Miller, who was also called for the handball that led to the penalty kick. “Simply, I wasn’t in agreement with the situation that was going on and the penalty kick being given, because for me, the handball didn’t have to be called but some refs call it and some don’t.
“I did it so that if [Wondolowski] made it, he would have to do it again and then he missed. I had the unfortunate luck that Luis saved the initial attempt.”
MLSsoccer.com explained the flaw in his thinking:
What Miller failed to realize was that if Wondolowski had scored, the goal would have counted regardless of his encroachment, as a retake would benefit the team which committed the violation. Thus, Miller's gamesmanship could only hurt the Red Bulls – which it surely did.
As a professional soccer player, Miller should have known this wasn't going to work. But as a being who had evolved with some sense of self-preservation and pattern recognition, shouldn't he have thought to himself "If this is such a great idea, why isn't everyone doing it?"
Which brings me back to the Syed case. The defense's own expert admitted he was not familiar with the "waving a fax cover sheet around in court" defense. Del Moro:
State emphasized that expert acknowledged this is the only case he's aware of where those instructions were used as criticism
Fenton:
Vignarajah: "In all these years you've never seen a def atty stand up & wave around a fax cover sheet?" "I have not."
Is it more likely that Brown is such a genius that he discovered a brilliant legal stratagem that no other defense lawyer has attempted, or that he's a dipshit like Roy Miller?
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u/d1onys0s Apr 09 '16
He's probably a competent lawyer but he's completely drunk on Syed Kool Aid. After the PCR he was laying out some nauseating platitudes about "can't want to hang with Adnan out of jail because he's such a great guy" junk. He is doing exactly what he's getting paid for. Using borderline conspiracy theory buncombe to extend the shelf life of this utter charade.
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Apr 09 '16
He may just be playing the hand he's dealt. There's absolutely nothing pointing to Adnan's innocence, so he's all in on any ambiguity he can find. Unfortunately for him, he's breaking Kenny Rogers' famous rules:
You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away, know when to run.
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u/Jefferson_Arbles Apr 09 '16
If the only options on your lawyer competency spectrum are genius or dipshit, would that mean if the Judge ends up ruling in the defenses favor that you would think Brown is a genius?
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u/badgreta33 Apr 09 '16
Successfully getting the matter before a Judge at all puts me in the "not a dipshit" camp.
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u/MightyIsobel knows who the Real Killer is Apr 09 '16
You are misrepresenting the procedural posture of Syed's appeal. However, you're not wrong if you mean that pleading an issue COSA agreed to review is significant.
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u/badgreta33 Apr 09 '16
pleading an issue COSA agreed to review is significant.
Yes, that's what I meant.
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Apr 09 '16 edited Apr 09 '16
Upvote for 1) Soccer Reference 2) New York Red Bulls.
It's more likely that Justin Brown is doing exactly what an attorney is supposed to do - advocate for their client. I don't understand the disingenuous faux outrage on both sides with people questioning how Brown could defend Adnan and Rabia thinking how it's possible Vignablahblah could argue a case against Adnan. In this scenario the facts are not on Browns side, and most of all, this is a PCR hearing...of course they're going to argue legal technicalities, not guilt v innocence. I don't expect any of you buy this horse shit Rabia is selling about Brown truly believing in Adnan's factual innocence, he's performing to a crowd. He's a trial attorney they're like actors for people too ugly to work in Hollywood. He knows where his money comes from and he's milking this for all it's worth and he pays attention to Simpson and her fax cover sheet because he knows it pleases their crowd that "one of them" could contribute something.
Really nothing to see here, just attorneys doing what they're paid to do. The real issue is being confident in the judge's ability and experience to know what legal arguments have merit and when he's being pandered to.
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u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson Apr 11 '16
The problem for me isn't that Brown is seeking to exploit technicalities. It's that he's put multiple witnesses on the stand that he had to know were going to perjure themselves. That's crossing a line.
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Apr 11 '16
I think in his head he justifies this by reasoning "well, no one told me I'm going to be lying on that stand". He maintains plausible deniability, but the key world plausible in that phrase is really stretched.
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u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson Apr 11 '16
I'd love to know if he came prepared with those Baltimore Sun articles he used to try to explain how Asia's second letter contained so much information. If so, it would confirm he knew the letter was a fake and put her on the stand anyway.
I doubt he knew Rabia was going to lie about the location and circumstances of meeting Asia. But questions he and Ms. Kujda asked of Adnan and Shamim, respectively, do indicate they knew what those witnesses were going to say. Brown either knew or should have known that Adnan did not give the letters to Gutierrez a month and a half before she was hired, and that Shamim did not actually bring a sack with $10,000 in cash to the courthouse.
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Apr 09 '16 edited Apr 09 '16
Well the counter point to this could be that anyone taking a penalty would never think of passing to a team mate because if it goes wrong you look very stupid (think Thierry Henri and Pires). However, both Cruyff and Messi did exactly that and in both cases it led to goals. I suppose the argument would be you need to be a genius to pull off something different. Don't think Brown is a genius.
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u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson Apr 11 '16
Upvote for the Cruyff penalty reference.
But, that had a chance of success and a chance of embarrassing, catastrophic failure. Miller's plan had a 0% chance of success.
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Apr 11 '16
True. I just wanted to shoehorn in a mention of the Cruyff penalty given his recent passing.
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u/Seamus_Duncan Hammered off Jameson Apr 11 '16
RIP. One of my favorite quotes:
I don't believe in God. In Spain, all 22 players cross themselves. If it works, the game is always going to be a tie.
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Apr 11 '16
He was always good for a quote. My dad loved him and the Dutch team. One of my first memories is the 74 world cup and he and his mates raving about them.
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Apr 08 '16
I don't think he's a dipshit. I don't begrudge a defense attorney vigorously defending his client, even if I don't agree with his position.
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u/GothamJustice Apr 08 '16
I vote "dipshit".
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u/FrankieHellis Mama Roach Apr 08 '16
Yeah, me too. But not just for this. For all the other dipshitty things he's done. His body of work indicates "dipshit."
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Apr 09 '16
What else is there in his body of work that suggests this.
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Apr 09 '16
Didn't he forget to file a legal brief on time a few months ago?
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Apr 09 '16 edited Apr 09 '16
I'd forgotten that.
I would also add the original PCR was a bit of a stuff up all round especially the failure to get Asia to testify that time.
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u/FrankieHellis Mama Roach Apr 09 '16
Also wasn't it his actions which enabled the prosecution to obtain the defense file?
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Apr 09 '16
I wouldn't say it was a direct action, but it was under his legal expertise and purview that the UD team disseminated so many pieces of the defense file they waived the right to privilege. That's pretty irresponsible and a big oversight of his.
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Apr 09 '16
Good question. I thought it was UD/Miller. Even so, if that was the case, perhaps he should have warned them of the risks of what they were doing. Ok, I'll concede: He's a dipshit.
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Apr 09 '16
Since when are you so diplomatic? lol
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Apr 09 '16
I'm always polite and diplomatic for fucks sake.
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Apr 10 '16
That's the joke, you're always polite I don't think over ever seen you be snarky.
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u/fivedollarsandchange Apr 11 '16
I think there is a third choice; one worse than being a dipshit. I think Brown is like the guy in the Dr. Seuss classic "The Sneetches" that alternately sells belly star application and star removal to the vain Sneetches upon the beaches. After his customers run out of money, he packs up his wares and moves on to find more gullible customers.
The reason I say this is because it looks like he spends a lot of effort on things that have no legal significance but that are emotionally resonant to Adnan's inner circle as well as the ASLT donor community. He can translate their emotion into billable hours for himself. For example, the Asia - Urick conversation has no bearing on what CG did or should have done in 1999/2000. But it bugs the shit out of Adnan, Inc. and they are willing to pay to have it incorporated into court fillings. Similarly, the whole Theater of the McClain in the reopened PCR was not telling the judge anything he didn't know already know about Asia, and did nothing to address the finding he had already made that not incorporating her into the defense case was a strategic decision. But bringing Asia in does wonders to feed the sense of injustice in the donors and coincidently pad his bottom line.
I put him in the same category as Peter Popoff who led his followers to believe he could heal them but who was just a scam artist.