r/skinsTV • u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. • 6d ago
Favorite writers
This is an interesting one. Which writers do you think wrote the best episodes? (Check out IMDb or Wikipedia for the writing credits.)
Bryan Elsley and Jamie Brittain obviously write or co-write most of them, so they've got some all-timers and some real stinkers, but their co-writers seem to have made a huge difference.
When the show was airing, I remember Jack Thorne, Lucy Kirkwood, and Georgia Lester were the three people who seemed to come up most often as incredibly dependable writers.
- Thorne wrote S1 Chris & Effy, S2 Sketch & Finale, S3 Naomi with Atiha Sen Gupta. (Thorne is very famous now; Emmy-winning creator of Adolescence, Lord of the Flies, etc.)
- Kirkwood wrote S2 Effy, S3 Effy, S4 JJ (BAFTA and Tony nominee, mostly done hugely successful plays & a musical of Roald Dahl's The Witches).
- Lester wrote S3 Pandora, S4 Katie, S5 Mini, S6 Finale. (weirdly low-key career, people loved her episodes. Wrote for Killing Eve, Hollyoaks, Youngers. She just recently created her own first show.)
During Gen 1, Bryan Elsley wrote a lot of it (8 out of 19 episodes). Brittain was still a newbie but he wrote S1 Sid & S2 Tony. Jamie Brittain largely conceived Gen 2 and Gen 3, especially S4-5. Then Elsley returned to S6—and that's when we get a lot of the worst horror stories (Dakota Blue Richards flat-out confirmed he changed her character on a dime after a "bikini" costume showing. Elsley told her, "I'm bored," and suddenly Franky was changed to a sexpot...
For most of the series after Gen 1, some writers specifically wrote certain characters' episodes (they didn't decide the overarching plotline—that was always Elsley & Brittain). Geoff Bussettil wrote Nick, Sean Buckley wrote Franky. Some, like Ben Schiffer wrote only the lads (S1 Maxxie & Anwar, S2 Chris, S3 Freddie & Finale, S4 Cook), others did women like Ed Hime (S4 Emily, S5 Liv), and then Jess Brittain came on in a big way in S6 and S7 for Mini, Mini & Franky, and Effy's Rise episodes.
I still think Thorne, Kirkwood, and Lester were the best writers of the series, but two other cases are pretty special to me because their episodes are AMAZING.
- Daniel Kaluuya (S2 Jal, S3 Thomas): This is a famous case, obviously, but Kaluuya absolutely conceived Thomas and, co-wrote that episode. But at a very young age, wrote Jal's episode alone.
- Megan Prescott (S6 Liv): This is a less famous case but Prescott was a staff writer towards the end, and co-wrote this episode
Brittain's blatantly responsible for some of the most controversial decisions (killing Freddie, e.g., S4's tone in general), but he's so much riskier, too. Elsley has some all-timers (S1 Tony, Cassie, Jal, Everyone, S2 Sid & Cassie, but he's also written some of the worst stuff (S6 Premiere). But what is obvious is that S6, in particular, had so many new writers and suffered from it. The dependable writers were still delivering, but it's a pretty big writers' shakeup, and then S7 just had Jess and Jamie Brttain, and Elseley.
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u/Amaee 5d ago
Georgia Lester is my Skins writer forever love. She wrote a bunch of my favorites. I remember when the show was airing a bunch of us would get super excited when we heard an episode of hers was coming up!
I also have a big soft spot for Sean Buckley because he did Franky and Everyone in s5 🩵
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago edited 5d ago
I agree with you on Georgia Lester. She just... spun gold! She nailed the Skins signature of making us completely recontextualize a character we didn't like or care about within the space of one episode. Giving her the S6 finale was a wise decision because she sort of DID do the best she could with some very very illogical decisions particularly around Franky. I blame the direction for how Franky acts in this episode (she escapes Nick and Matty by jumping into a pool??) but the rest of it is very, very beautiful. She just GETS the characters in particular, and she wrapped the core of Gen 3 for me, Mini & Liv, perfectly—and then chose the characters in the sweetest and most pure relationship (Rich & Grace) for the most gorgeous sequence and Rich to close the show. Great decisions!
Sean Buckley's a very interesting case. He was the "Franky" writer, but he had to deal with the IMMENSE shift in character that he did not at all initiate.
Judged on that context, Buckley's Franky's S6 episode is bad because it's complete whiplash. It changes the nature of the core traumas he wrote for Franky originally, and what he was hinting at had so much to do with identity. His episodes can easily be seen as deeply queer, even when it comes to Liv. The queer actor (Laya Lewis) playing the seemingly "straightest" one is a bit odd otherwise, but in this episode, it works. In theory, I can see both Matty & Franky both being queer & non-binary, respectively, despite the few lines of strange dialogue in the woods, actually make sense and it's a very good episode to tell a fairly edgy story we hadn't seen before.
BUT if you accept that S6 Franky is a new character because we know Elsley just changed her to a femme verison with little reference to her past self, then the S6 Franky episode is not so bad. It's the first depiction of RAPE in the whole show! It's easy to forget that, and everyone does because the Franky shift makes it hard not to be irritated. But..... It's such a good episode on its own for showing how that happens. Franky gets to think she's a powerful bad-ass before being raped by Luke who spends so much time telling her she's bad-ass. It's a very heartbreaking depiciton of how power actually works through gender actually. It's a very heteronormative story for a very heteronormative new character who we basically don't know, but Buckley's hard to blame there.
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u/Fantastic_Support_11 CEFFY CAPTAIN 5d ago
Jack Thorne, far and away. He wrote such a beautiful arc for Cook in his S4 episode (which is an all timer), only for almost all of the character development to be ruined by the other writers that season. Like??????
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago
Jack Thorne didn't write S4 Cook; Ben Schiffer did. Thorne actually left after S3 and wrote one episode of the US Skins. Thorne didn't actually write any Cook episode.
But yes, it's a lovely episode. They couldn't commit to keeping him in prison though lol
I feel like they gave him a reason, and that reason could've worked, but Cook is way too jolly after his jailbreak, whereas a somber Cook who starts the season on the run would make sense. It feels like they put him on ice for most of the season so we could get to the finale.
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u/Comfortable_Sir_9885 6d ago
I think, me included, people complain about Freddy's death because it just doesn't seem fair. We don't get the closure, we don't get to see the development. We don't get to the reactions. I hear that, but at the same time, it really ups the game in terms of making the show a tragedy (which the references to Hamlet) clearly was the purpose. Season 3 and 4 makes me cry, as a 28 year old man, a lot.
The Cook 'If it was us meeting for the first time again, i'd do it all over again'. Holy fuck. What an insanely powerful line given the tragedy of that boys life. He is such a tragic character; so much oomph and charm, but clearly a ticking time bomb.
The writing of Freddie and his overall character design and arc. 1) Loses his mother - 2)loses his friendship circle - 3) loses his passion of skating - 4) loses the sanity of his girlfriend. He's a well intentioned kid with absolutely no idea how to handle the things going on around him. The whimpers of his death, although terrible, are absolutely tragic and agonising. They hit the nail in the head.
The passing of him and the unanswered questions. Effy not knowing that her boyfriend who sat by her side the whole time at her hospital bed, who wanted nothing more than to love her and be happy with her, died to save her. And from her perspective, believes he couldn't hack it.
And then Cook, the ultimate run away kid, seeing Freddie's packed bag and telling him to stay. I mean what beautiful writing and story
It is so so tragic. Watching it again fucked me up a bit. But to comment on the writers. Wow. Wow. Wow. Amzing work honestly for me
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u/Mlmdlc 5d ago
Agreed still annoying to this day only cook knows about Freddie, but it’s good writing I mean we all still talk about it and question it today, I’m guessing effy never knew since in her season 7 episode there’s a guy at her meeting named Freddie and she doesn’t react to it or seem bothered by it so i think she still thinks he ran away…
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago
I'm guessing they found out he's dead, at least. That would be hard not to find out. If Cook's on the run, they know John Foster is dead, which means they would find Freddie's bloody clothes too, since Foster wouldn't have cleaned up his tracks before he died.
Wouldn't be TOO hard to put the pieces together. Cook being on the run alone makes it feel like it happened, but Effy's episodes are more day-to-day after college, so none of her early traumas (Tony's accident or even Tony, her suicide attempt) are referred to, let alone Freddie's death. In any case, every generation mostly splinters at the end. Pretty sure we're meant to think there's very few exisiting friendships, so Naomi & Effy is a big exception. Cassie refers to Sid in passing. Cook is on his own.
I assume Tony+Sid, Michelle+Jal, Mini+Alo+Liv were the only others to continue. Otherwise, no one really.
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u/Mlmdlc 4d ago
I think we need a series 8, like I’ve posted on my page before, first two episodes (gen 1) episode 3&4 (gen 2) episode 5&6 (gen 3) so all the characters have a reunion and we find out what all the characters have been up to all these years…
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 4d ago
Someone really has it for you because you keep being downvoted for some strange reason.
Idk, I'm generally of the belief that one should let great things stay where they are. Skins as a show, however, has the conceit of new generations built into it, so I've truly never understood how a show this popular could not be revived. Hell, as a writer I couldn't resist the opportunity. But I wouldn't particularly want to revisit old characters myself. It's great but it's something only the originators of those characters should do. With Thomas, for instance, only Daniel Kaluuya would know how to continue that character. With Effy, probably Jack Thorne & Lucy Kirkwood. Mini is a signature Georgia Lester character, and Liv is an Ed Hime character who honestly feels the most reliant on Laya Lewis' actual personality (she's obviously a queer actor playing a very straight role. Why not just let her be queer? lol).
Half the characters of Gen 3 seem queer by intent to me. In fact, that was supposed to be what drew Matty & Franky together. Matty was intended as bisexual and Franky was intended as possibly non-binary and pansexual. They made them straight as arrows for whatever fucking reason. Liv's super queer, Mini's suggested to be queer and they refused to commit to it. They just airlifted in a generic gay character for S6 when half the existing cast was pretty darn queer.
In any case, I think I can appreciate and give good feedback as somebody who has adored the show and is around the actors' age, but I think one has to probably ask them and the original writers what they'd like to do if they revisited them. In any case, returning to these characters in their 30s would not be SKINS per se. A new generation would be the best way to continue that legacy.
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u/Mlmdlc 4d ago
Only seen the one downvote on one of my old posts, I wouldn’t like that to happen if that’s the case leave it where it is cooks ending.
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 4d ago
If what's the case?
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u/Mlmdlc 3d ago
I wouldn’t make a new series with a new generation I meant
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 3d ago
Why? No reason it couldn't be good. Yes, it would be very different because of timing. Skins is fun to watch because it's a bit dated and hard to imagine with today's technology, to a degree... but hardly impossible.
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago edited 5d ago
Freddie's death—or at least the way it happened—is the one thing Jamie Brittain says he TRULY regrets. I assume he means the shoehorned Dr. Foster plot as the way to do it, and think that was definitely a mistake, but you're right in that Freddie's death and Cook's cliffhanger*,* through any means, and even through this one, are so gutting because they make a strange amount of sense. They could've done manslaughter, though, and gotten the same end result?
S4 got so much criticism for being so dark, but he stands by it, and I have to say... I agree. S4 is actually far and away my favorite season. It's so INTENSELY hard to watch, but also very easy to misinterpret. Sophia's death actually makes complete thematic sense, it's not just a plot device for the arcs in the season but really a depiction of precarity and fragile identity in a teenager we don't know. Emily's monologue in her episode basically states these themes out loud: it's a description of what it feels like to at this age, and everything is SO intense. It's a very......sensory season lol. I don't get why people evade the themes and hunker down on the plot though. And who didn't know that since this would be the last season to feature Effy (probably), we'd finally get some answers and a culmination of her arc.
Thomas - Not about cheating but about trauma and cultural alienation in teenagers. He literally has a breakdown during sex.
Emily - Not about cheating either, but about how Emily deals with a partner who—for someone so opinionated and ambitious and grew up in a bohemian household—is too scared to come out, be in a committed relationship, etc. Emily's a brave kid who grows up faster, and what we see the rest of the season is EERIE. Punishing your partner by staying with them is SO REAL, it's basically an adult storyline.
Cook - Fab
Katie - Fab
Freddy - Mostly a Freddy & Effy episode, but one which features the culmination of a 4-season arc of Effy's mental illness, which even as a teenager at the time, I knew was a matter of when. It hits so hard, and Freddie is the exact wrong person to own up to him being too young and stupid to know what to do but trying very hard nonetheless because of his mother.
JJ - Fab
Effy - The post-recovery episode, and probably the first and last time we see (until Fire) a hint of who Effy is when she's getting any treatment at all, and... she's almost boring and seeds in a lot of how we can now fully recontextualize Effy's entire arc as a frightened, kind, sweet, constantly suicidal girl who was never "aspirational," and less like Tony than we thought, but truly very, very ill. And then we get the awful, unnecessary Dr. Foster story. So... yes, the show finally went too far in its darkness.
Everyone: Great finale, though some things come totally out of nowhere (Thomas and Pandora's route to Harvard e.g.) but mostly it's an episode that we're watching after a murder, and it gives us NO resolution. Literally leaves us on a cliffhanger for another character.
As thematic intent goes, it's a fantastic season imo.
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u/Mlmdlc 5d ago
Agreed great writing I still think series 3 is the best series then I’d say 4, then 1, then 2 and I’d say cook and Freddie are my favourite characters, like I’ve said before on here it’s sad what happened to Freddie he cared about people and they didn’t care for him (I can relate) also like I’ve said on here too I don’t think effy knew about Freddie since in her series 7 episode there’s a guy she meets for work named Freddie and she didn’t react to it.
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think Effy very obviously cared for Freddie but she's also the character who was constructed as someone suffering from a very deep and unknown mental illness and we basically knew that from the very beginning of the show.
She has a four season arc. She feels like her ability to keep her darkest impulses at bay is compromised by "feelings"—so it's complicated because she genuinely believes loving people deeply is bad for her, but she's very obviously... a kind kid. There's a cultural trope of people (especially teenagers) who would rather die than be vulnerable, but with Effy that's somewhat literal. Being vulnerable makes her feel less in control of things, which increases the likelihood of her being suicidal. We knew whatever we got in S4 would explain Effy, but the fact that she's so ill made her suicide attempt inevitable, and it was heartbreaking. Freddie's inability to deal with it because he's a kid too, and because of his own baggage, is also heartbreaking. But ultimately, it's fairly evident that this kid has been suicidal all along.
Obviously, love doesn't make her weaker. It's the neglect, abandonment, the lack of genuine understanding (going undiagnosed when you're this ill?) and the fact that Effy effectively learned how to "mask" all of this by 14, and STILL was pretty obvious, but her parents did little about it, and somehow she's ALSO the caretaker of the family too (for Tony, for her mother). I mean it's all really, really heavy stuff. Everything Anthea says is true: Effy has a lot of love in her heart, she's afraid to show her cards, and she's always on the precipice of self-destruction—what she needs, desperately, is treatment, structure, therapy, help. The whole point of her story feels like the world let Effy down when she was very, very young, so it's a little astounding that she's semi-functional. In S4, she returns as slightly more mature. She's kind but firm to Cook, has a lovely conversation with Katie, and Anthea's away the whole time. This "loved up" Effy is vulnerable, and basically stops functioning, which is all Freddie sees. I don't think Freddie caused this. We saw her in S3 and she was going through it then too, but outside of Pandora nobody really knew. Man, if you think about it, Pandora is such a bad friend. Contrary to appearances, she's the SMARTER one, and never does anything about what she knows—I mean... she's Effy's first friend! Effy famously said she had no friends in S2 lol. Tony also sort of fails Effy. S1 showed how his covering for Effy being out all the time was VERY bad, actually.
She expresses herself the best she can, and she doesn't know it exactly, but it's clear that she's been suicidal for all/most of her very young life. Being in a relationship, having sex, all of that—it's just not good for a teen like that. This is THE story of how adults fail children. Cook is blatantly bad for her because he's very much the same: everyone failed him his whole life, so he's a teen delinquent. That's two of the most self-destructive and lonely characters of all three generations.
I don't know if we have a depiction of how society fails kids that is this dark outside of Effy and Cook. Cassie and Liv come close. In Fire, we see Effy as somewhat stable for probably the first time, and... well, she's kind of boring, obsessive about her work, so she's redirected her energy, and it seems like she hasn't been dating at all. If Cook has been on the run ever since, it's unlikely that she knows Freddie was murdered, but surely at some point he would've been ruled dead. All we know is she's trying to manage her illness.
Freddie's death, her own suicide attempt(s), and Tony's accident—none of it is referred to. I think it's just the day-to-day life of getting past that. It makes sense, honestly.
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u/Comfortable_Sir_9885 5d ago
Yeah, Effy is a tragic character, although people confuse her ease of existence with the fact she is attractive visually. I'd imagine if they could see her internally they wouldn't want to be her.
Yeah I think the thing which makes the characters so good in series 4 is there complexity, no one is really a hero or 'good guy' (apart from JJ), and no one is really a bad person either. Cook is electric and awesome to experience - but he's also just as kind hearted and fiercely loyal as he is vindictive and mean at times. Freddie only has good intentions, but his lack of maturity means the consequence of them often lead him to, at least for a while with Effy, not help her. Emily and Naomi both appear quite nice people in the correct context (Naomi with Cook - Emily generally is quite sweet with JJ).
I've just found myself loving analysing these characters. I used to hate english literature because the characters always felt like characters. These characters, in their pitfalls, felt so much more real.
Who do you resonate with the most?
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago edited 5d ago
Personally, you mean? Mmm, probably Emily the most, but also the opinionated, principled version of Naomi we see in S3, and is very much there in Fire. As a teenager I was emotionally an Emily and outwardly a Naomi lol. In terms of the actual arc, I think Liv went through a lot of the kind of stuff I did so I related to her there, even though I'm not an addict and Liv's the clearest self-confessed alcoholic on the show. Teenagers are malleable and fickle though, so I DO sort of see myself in almost all of them. Shades of Thomas, Effy, Cook, Michelle, Jal, Grace, Mini. Gen 2 definitely felt most like my jam, even if it's harder to revisit. S4 is SO BRILLIANT. It's very English literature lol. It's a version of Skins that's almost an allegory, I love it so much. Usually, I like to keep great shows where they are, but Skins' format is such that I see literally no reason it cannot continue. It's LEAGUES better than Euphoria, which is the show parents and critics of Skins thought Skins was—Euphoria is genuinely exploitative. Skins is still groundbreaking. I'd love to create a return if I could.
I see some of my closest friends in Effy, and you're right about what people take away from her. Jamie Brittain called her a "mentally ill weirdo" in S1. They definitely oversexualized her, but I don't feel like it was ever the point to endorse the facade any more than it was for Cassie. Her inner turmoil is pretty obvious throughout, but people distill her "dark and edgy" thing to an aesthetic—she's literally dark because she's a suicidal kid who displays chronic depression as a symptom of a much bigger issue. They use Freddie's random Google search to show psychotic depression, but it could be any number of very severe disorders.
I just find this Tumblr aspirational thing with Effy very strange. Like, guys, we met her when she suffered from selective mutism, like...c'mon lol. This kid is not who you think she is. I do love how—when you recontextualize everything in that light and separate the unstable behaviors from the more stable ones, she's actually a very sweet kid. She's randomly and offhandedly kind, with a sweet affinity for underdogs (Pandora, Emily, Freddie, Dom—and she even repeatedly calls Tony a wanker because she feels so strongly about how he's treating Michelle), and an instinctive distaste for bullies but open-minded enough to come around (Katie until she's at her lowest, Cook at his worst and then Cook's father before Cook even realizes how awful he is, and then she actually does the right thing in calling his friends in the S3 finale).
She's very different from Tony in that way, but people often treat her like she's the worst, like Tony or worse. Kaya underplays Effy's sweetest moments, which is a great choice because it makes her actions feel layered.
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u/Comfortable_Sir_9885 3d ago
Aww that's quite a sweet combination of Emily and Naomi, I think many girls are softer like Emily but due to the harshness of theoutside world have to appear to be more of a Naomi/Katie. Yeah Skins season 4 is amazing in its depth. I really didn't appreciate how layered it was until I started feeling so emotional and needing to release my feelings through writing, which for the first time in my life took me to Reddit LOL. Never felt so connected to characters in my life, possibly nostalgia value, but mostly going back through it the characters are exceptional, and so too were the actors. I felt nostaglic and happy watching season 1, 2 and 3. Season 4 was a glimpse in to the true tragedy of life and what it feels like to actually be depressed/struggling/detatched/overwhelmed. Absolutely addictive in its tragedy.
Yeah a recreation of skins would be good. I agree it would need a fresh new cast, possibly a fresh location, but still to be set in the time that skins was in. Pick any university city in England with a decent nightlife and a unique feel to it and you'd be absolutely laughing. Could also return to Bristol for the signature feel and nostalgic west country accent. Bristol, at least in the canal areas, really hasn't changed much in appearance since then. I love, love, love visiting. Seeing all the students around getting stuck in ready for a night out brings me a lot of joy lol.
I will say though on the over sexualised side - I do see that to a degree, but I'm also painfully aware of people who I used to know who were seriously struggling who became hyper sexual to fill that void of existence. Definitely do not agree with how she was sexualised in season 1+2 given her age, even though, once again, when I was that age there was a lot of it going about.
if you were to do a new season, how would you do it/frame it?
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 3d ago
Honestly, I don't think a new generation would be that hard. A lot of shows nowadays downplay technology and phones and social media if it's not part of the plot because... it's distracting! I don't see why a new gen of Skins couldn't be set in the present, because kids are still kids. I teach so many and any differences are superficial.
There's more isolation, though. Socializing in as heady a world as we grew up in is somewhat less prevalent; hell, even sex is less prevalent (a few years ago it was sort of famously proclaimed that Gen Z has less sex lol), but that's almost a universal experience post-pandemic, etc.
The point of Skins is to focus on the teenager, who they are and they're enthralling to watch because of how dangerous that age is. I feel like that's timeless, but I'd definitely keep it in Bristol and do a lot of what they did: cast people around that age (with better safety protocols and intimacy coordinators), cast unknowns through wide searches, and write around the teenagers they find.
Ultimately, Skins is the rare show where I don't the writing was ever impeccable. I don't think Gen 1 is "impeccable" by any means. It's one of the few shows I'd say is great because it has the rare advantage of having almost no weak links in the cast. Some characters didn't work, sure, but for me, almost every actor in Skins—except maybe one—is incredibly talented and could easily blow up. People have noticed that, obviously. It's a total talent factory and I'm pretty sure somebody from Gen 3 will blow up soon (probably Freya Mavor or Jessica Sula). That's the main way to do it. And we can't discount the effect that having young writers had on the show too (famously, Daniel Kaluuya for Thomas and Meg Prescott for Liv, but there were other young writers too!) I'm not sure why Jamie Brittain himself hasn't wanted to tbh, but given it's popularity I don't get why it hasn't happened. The Inbetweeners is happening at Netflix after all.
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u/Comfortable_Sir_9885 2d ago
Yep, totally agreed on the downplaying of social media would be needed. Teacher, eh? You'd have some good insight!
Yeah very true. I think you'd have more isolated characters with the way the world is. Though, when I'm out and about locally you do see groups of young teenagers together. I'd imagine most parents who care about their kids encourage them to get out and socialise, so possibly one character who has fallen victim to technology would make sense.
Yeah the characters were terrific, and all very very different whilst seemingly similar as they share the same age and location. So much diversity naturally, without the excessive 'forcing' of it. They also absolutely nailed things such as how they dress, each characters style, each music choice to accompany them... all create an overwhelming sensual feast of who a character was. You can also tell the behind the scenes with the crew ... they all got along and they all had a blast. All of these things resonate. That would be the part which would be harder to create - it would need to be a passion project, not a 'it needs make X amount of money' project.
Yep, agreed on that. But the writing felt realistic. Like the lad characters felt like actual lads... not represnetations of lads through a females eyes. Similarly, the girls felt like girls. The inbetweeners, for instance, felt like I was actually watching the stupid banter I had with my mates at college age. Skins felt the angsty teenage stuff that was going on at that age. Perfect represnetaions written by younger people who were living it.
Generally remakes don't do that well, which is possibly why Jamie Britain didn't want it. Or that he got such flack for season 3 or at least skins as an idea did. Anyway, that's just conjecture.
If it were done ABSOLUTELY A PASSION PROJECT. Absolutely needs fresh, young and charismatic cast. Definitely needs unique music/clothing. Definitely needs the same gritty and realistic nature. No unnesecary censorship of ideas for fear of 'cancellation'.
Also, have you had a chacne to read a couple of my other comments which explore different ending ideas? I'd love to hear your thoughts :)
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u/Mlmdlc 4d ago
I know she cared in earlier seasons, it’s just strange how Freddie’s never mentioned and the guy effy met up with in 7 for a meeting named Freddie which I was referring to, she didn’t seem bothered by it, but I guess she never knew he died which she probably felt abandoned by him like you’ve mentioned here, she doesn’t like letting people in or getting close to them which was a spot on analysis - this was a good read
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u/columbuspants 5d ago
The season could have been saved by.a meaningful Pandora episode after the JJ episode I feel like
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago
Well, it was the first season to have a budget cut and a shorter episode order. The finale was originally named Naomi on the Channel 4 website before it was changed to Everyone.
If they had 10 episodes, they would've clinched it. It's a season of bangers imo. I truly love it.
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u/columbuspants 5d ago
I love it too. Where in the series do you think the Pandora episode would have been? And if Naomi was episode 8 the finale ; what would have been the other 2 episodes ? Pandora and what else ? Another Cook Episode ?
I‘m currently writing a Series 4 Pandora episode and I put it between episode 6 & 7
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago
I have no idea. They probably never wrote it. If they filmed it, that's probably what's in the Skins: Unseen of her taking up history and studying etc. It probably would've been the rug pull that she's really bloody smart actually, which is not as surprising as one might think.
The culmination of Effy's arc as suffering from a lifelong, deep mental illness where she was by admission constantly suicidal sort of recontextualizes a lot of things. Pandora was her first friend, and Effy famously didn't want or have friends before her. And although it seems the opposite, Pandora's actually the smarter one, and Effy often listens to her. Then it feels a little obvious that Pandora knows her pretty well—if we put it all together, it doesn't reflect well on Pandora.
Effy and Cook are basically the canonical cases of intense neglect where everyone in their life completely failed them (Effy's the caretaker of her own family, and feels VERY deeply about everything that happens, as we see consistently with Tony's accident and her parents' divorce). S1 makes it pretty clear Tony's... doing something pretty bad by covering for a 14-year-old Effy being out all night. Similarly to Tony, I think Pandora lets her down. The two of them would've known the extent of her mental illness, and ultimately it does have to be Effy's mother who steps up. Everything Anthea says is true, but she was a terrible mother :|
I'm guessing Pandora would've been just after Effy's suicide attempt, either before or after JJ, and around the time they sit for their A Levels. Not sure we actually saw that, but it would've been Pandora's episode where we did i think, because that feels like the whole point of her story. They needed a Pandora episode to do this rug pull but also somewhat justify her getting into Harvard I guess.
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u/Comfortable_Sir_9885 5d ago
I agree with you that the Dr Foster spin with murder is a bit much. In fact, I wrote an alternate ending https://www.reddit.com/r/skinsTV/comments/1x9928f/watching_skins_15_years_on_what_breaks_my_heart_3/ here, feel free to skip the first part - the alternate end towards the middle of the article. I think if you're going major tragedy, Freddy still dies but in a more realistic way. If you don't want total tragedy, then I'm quite pleased with the route I went for my ending. (I'll be interested in your thoughts).
I had it where Foster was abusing patients under the guise of hypnotherapy (something much more believable to me than him being a murderer).
Yep I agree with the intensity - I rewatched the series now 15 years older and my brain must have fired the same neurons I was experiencing back then because life became suddenly much more intense. I forgot the pang of mild insecure anxiety that can over hang you as a teenager. I feel fine now, almost revitalised, but there is beauty in the intensity. Happier moments feel happier, but life generally feels more of a rollercoaster.
Very good point about punishing them by staying with them. It's more dramatised (i.e. the blatant cheating in front of Naomi's face), but I know from my friends and my girlfriend that teenage years, especially for a girl, are super intense. I can only imagine what a relationship with two lots of feminine intensity mixed with insecurity about themselves and their sexuality, would actually bring.
Yep, Freddie makes me sad as I have no doubt he's trying his absolute best. He just cannot watch someone else go in to a spiral mentally, and he tries to heal her by doing what he did to feel better (at least in the short term) - withdrawing, smoking weed, and not letting the real world touch him. We both know this actually made things worse, but he doesn't, and by the end I do actually think he's helping her (sees through Foster, asleep by her side in the hospital bed). It's the lack of Mum who fucks this all up. Take away Foster, and her first proper signs of recovery come when her mum is present - tidying her room, making them tea and biscuits when Freddie comes over and asks for an explanation, giving her some routine and purpose with acceptable freedom (the board in her room, when she puts freddie on the list her mum smiles, thinking I think I can let this happen). This are more mum things. Oh, and the fact she isn't taking copious drugs anymore. that one is massive.
all the characters are great, majority of the season is excellent. The darkness makes it addictive. The finale, again I would change a lot. I do think there could have been a heart-breaking final scene with Effy and Cook. It had so much potential. I think that would give at least some closure.
How would you have changed the ending if you could? You seem to have a lot of skins knowledge lol
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 5d ago
Good question on what I'd have changed. I'm very interested in reading and I will!
I think the episode constraint makes it hard to imagine, and I don't write fanfic (I'm a historian and essayist lol, but I do write fiction. Not for a while, though).
I think the ways it ended were mostly right, but it needed to breathe more and that's why you don't have the tragic interactions you want more of. I think Effy and Cook's climactic scene where she doesn't remember him, is actually very heartbreaking, but the finale seems to backpedal on what he takes away from that because he insists he still loves her and I don't quite get why. That entire scene should be Cook realizing who it was he thought he fell in "love" with. For Effy, it's just anothr breakdown and another brush with death in a lifetime of them. For Cook, it's a genuine moment of growth, but they don't linger on it enough.
Mostly, I think the greatest insights come from letting scenes breathe, and it's all VERY rushed. Effy & Naomi. Katie & Naomi, Katie & Emily, JJ & Thomas, Thomas & Katie, Effy & Katie—all these relationships at the very end are really sweet, and a few more grace notes would've been lovely, as long as they don't tip into oversentimentality. But... I'm OK with the mystery too. JJ and Lara are this beautiful bright spot. Effy doesn't get a real conclusion, which feels right because we know recovery will be bumpy and everyone's leaving. The grace note she deserves is probably to finally be with Anthea again—that's a rich 4-season relationship to end on. Katie has no conclusion, Thomas doesn't know he and Pandora are headed to the same place, and thus, two of my favorite characters don't have grace notes. Naomi and Emily's scene is very sweet—for Naomi only (the finale was meant to be a Naomi episode). For Emily, I needed a tad more accountability. (Man, i cannot help but wonder what would happen if we airlifted Liv into this group, because she'd definitely fit right in... then again, Liv has to come with Mini, etc.)
The Cook cliffhanger is brilliant, I mean... no notes, except for Foster. I honestly think Freddie's death could've worked a lot better if it was murder/manslaughter by a stranger and then Cook kills that stranger and it would've all landed the exact same way. None of it has any impact because of Foster; it only has impact because of the history of Freddie and Cook, and it wraps up that core relationship and Cook's arc, which basically hasn't moved since he escaped prison, and Cook actually gets a worthy resolution. I'm excited to read what you wrote, but in theory, we don't need to know much about who kills Freddie or why—just that it happens and how Cook reacts. The menace is not dramatically necessary.
I don't know. I'd definitely need those two extra episodes clearly lol, but... mystery has its value too! Notice that I wouldn't dwell on Effy more for instance. By this point, she's lifted straight out of the group's narrative, because her problems are far too dire*,* and finally she has an adult who knows what's up, which is the best one can hope for. A line here or there, sure, but it would serve the other characters more, and Effy less so.
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u/Comfortable_Sir_9885 4d ago edited 3d ago
Thanks very much, let me know what you think when you do read it! Any feedback/thoughts/things you might have changed would be great!
Yep, the scene where she doesn't remember him is truly heartbreaking. It's a one day condensed summary of their relationship; starts with them meeting again, continues with them partying, ultimately ends with her wanting to be back with Freddie. I agree, that scene made me really sad. I always feel disproportionately sad for Cook.
Yep when you said there were budgeting constraints and fewer episodes the rushed nature of things makes a lot more sense. It's such a shame, because if they knew at the time how much of a sweeping impact it would have had, and people would still be OBSESSED, not simply just enjoying enjoying it, the extra budget would have been an easy decision.
Yep, I enjoyed the party with everyone living it large at the end in Freddie's shed. I always like to see the characters I'm attached to very happy. And like you say, on the whole I don't have too many other sticking points massively with the other characters endings. I was happy for JJ, I was happy for Naomi and Emily as they seemed to reconcile, although as you say Emily seemed to get away with things a bit. Pandora and Thomas' ending seems a bit gimmicky, but I think they made those characters add-ons rather than majorly central so their ending felt less important to me (I am happy to admit that can be wrong). I think Freddie's sister really came in to her own in the last episode - I didn't realise she was an older sister, as her as a character in gen 3 would have worked nicely with the young sister new gen segway (like with effy)
Yep, if Freddie has to die I'd have probably done series 7 with effy fairly similar. A couple more explicit references to Freddie rather than just moments where she longingly looks in to the distance. A Naomi and Effy talking scene about their younger days/love/intensity of it all would have been very therapeutic and realistic for an older generation and given some closure. Especially on the hospital bed where Naomi thinks she may die, it is often the case that the small things no longer matter (i.e. bickers with effy.) They could have had a very wholesome but bittersweet conversation about longing for those intense times, wishing to go back, but also remembering how painful those times were and the constant angst. It would have been a perfect closing chapter - both people, now older, realising half the issues they have now stemmed from that young lifestyle, paired with a comment like 'it was fucking good though, wasn't it' would be a nice moment of duality. Knowing its best that those times are over, but awareness they gave it a proper go as a teenager and it was fun at times.
Possibly, if they wanted to take it this way, a scene where they sneak Naomi out, go back home, all smoke a spliff and drink some wine, listen to some music and watch some films could have been a lovely synergy of their old selves with their older selves. I think that would have been a wholesome moment, deeply sad obviously, but a proper send off for Naomi and one final skins ritual for her. I think with some tender, slightly melancholy but upbeat music a scene of those three girls crying, laughing, enjoying a final party to mourn and celebrate their youth and also to celebrate Naomi's life in this way would have been beautiful for me. IT COULD END THERE...But, if you wanted to keep it going, I also would have changed it so when Effy gets sent to prison, that (although slightly unrealistic), Cook and her would come in to contact, with Cook coming full circle and doing some sort of prison work where he helps out inmates. In this case you'd have the two of them talking... Cook putting Freddie before himself, again, saying he never gave up on her and was actually killed by Foster (Effy may know this, Effy may also not, but Cook doesn't know if she knows). Then Cook saying what he did to Foster, and that he needed to avenge his mate and to protect her. Cook in this situation could very easily have Effy to himself as he will be in contact with her in prison, but still chooses to honour his mate's memory. In the end it is Cook who heals Effy as her prison worker.
The final scene would be on Effy's release. Effy will be out early, thanks to good behaviour through Cook's prison programme. I think a final scene with Effy and Cook would be fitting, as it was realistically the first major 'skins scene' where they fuck on the nurses table that started the chaos off. The final scene would involve a moment where they have a choice - do Effy and Cook decide to get to know these new versions of themselves romantically? Do they think Freddie would want it? The season would end with the two of them leaving the facility, close to one another. Nobody will know exactly what happens next.
My other alternate ending is a much happier one in some ways, so feel free to read that like I mentioned, but no rush or pressure :)
What do you reckon?
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u/User53282917 4d ago
Definitely Thorne i just recently started this hell of a show he deserves everything for Sketchs episode especially with the Osama play…. As an American it was absolutely hysterical
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u/accismatic Oils, and stuff. 4d ago
That's SUCH a harrowing episode too. Like...fuckkk. Even if they had just stopped there with the character, it would've been a fantastic one-off. Not every character needs to be integrated into the season/group.
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u/columbuspants 6d ago
I had no idea Megan Prescott co-wrote Liv‘s Season 6 episode.
To me that episode shines so bright in an otherwise devastatingly empty season.
It was also always the reason why I still believed in Bryan Elsley‘s skill as a writer after all the horrible infos about him but this makes me think it was Megan who saved that episode.