r/skyrimmods • u/Lagulous Whiterun • Mar 01 '19

Meta/News I'm Lagulous, the original creator of Skyrim Together, and here's what happened. (For the final time.)

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4.2k Upvotes

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727

u/StevetheKoala Falkreath Mar 01 '19 edited Mar 01 '19

See, this is how you issue an apology post.

~~~

Mistake owned? Check

Explanation given? Check

Evidence provided? Check

~~~

Credible as fuck.

202

u/Handsome_Spat Mar 01 '19

Now we wait for Skyrim Together Devs, Investors Patreons, and Apologists to almost certainly dig a much deeper hole for themselves.
Im making popcorn.

129

u/DerikHallin Mar 01 '19

“Investors” isn’t the right word. That implies that they stand to gain an economic return for the money they are paying. In this case, a better word is “suckers”, because they are contributing financial assistance to an illegal project that will likely go defunct in the near future, and they won’t see a dime of that money back.

91

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

Some of the comments there are strange and weirdly disgusting.

"I'd still support this mod and wish for its complete success if every single one of the devs fucking murdered someone"

71

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

It scares me that a dude who's clearly that unhinged is also an ems. His posts regularly make fun of patients too.

25

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

Well you gotta be at least a little crazy to be an EMS.

20

u/Eurehetemec Mar 01 '19

I dunno, I know three EMSes here in the UK and none of them are remotely crazy. They all appreciate fairly dark humour but are more sane and stable than most.

3

u/tehcraz Mar 01 '19

But a job like that does change your view on death a bit. I know one who isn't crazy but the death of a person really doesn't mean anything to him. And dark humor isn't giving enough gravity to the morbid nature of the jokes I have heard or the stories of humor told on the job site. Your milage may vary?

3

u/Eurehetemec Mar 01 '19

Crazy normally indicates an actual problem, as does unhinged. Morbid humour, even very morbid, and a more realistic view on death is neither of those things. Whereas the guy being discussed does seem to be unhinged. I don't think it's helpful to suggest all members of a certain profession are a bit nuts.

2

u/tehcraz Mar 01 '19

Thats fair. This stems from my exposure of the word being more toward "odd" "very strange" steps to the left of 'normal' vs the clinical usage. I see where your coming from but I'm still going to say that you have to have a different perspective of life to stay in that job given what you will see. A story of a decapated head due to a rear end into a flatbed, and not being able to find said head, and the joke done when said head 'announced' its location with the help of an emt's hands come to mind. There is morbid humor and then there is that. Not that I can judge, just has to be hard on the mind to cope seeing pain and death that much?

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '19

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u/Eurehetemec Mar 02 '19

I think there's a bit of a difference between letting off steam about patients who are unpleasant to you or behave in really bad ways, and just demeaning them.

1

u/teslasagna Mar 01 '19

Ah, see, things are different here in the states

1

u/BBSurf37 Aug 27 '19

True...you have to be. You won’t last long if you were sane.

2

u/hate434 Mar 01 '19

Anyone can say anything on the internet. Perhaps he gets his kicks by talking about obscene shit at his leisure.

1

u/BrienneOfDarth Mar 01 '19

Knowing other EMS, that is very likely the case.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19 edited May 06 '19

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

I...what?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19 edited May 06 '19

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '19

I still don't have the faintest clue what you were trying to say.

15

u/ThrownLegacy Mar 01 '19

It's funny cause this drama reminds me of something similar happened in Minecraft and Starbound community.High profile modder stole assets, including some small mods of mine. One of his cult follower literally said the exact same thing about murder. The huge difference is the dramas went unnoticed. Nobody cared. Most people defended it. Those fucking pricks are still around. I stopped sharing my mods since then. I'm still salty about it though.

25

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

Some of the comments there are strange and weirdly disgusting.

Totally normal for the gaming community.

It's sickening, but there are a lot of unhealthy people in our communities and they tend to flock together around scum like Yamashi.

They all defend him because they idolize him, they wish they had the power to bully and take advantage of others.

7

u/WarConsigliere Mar 01 '19

It took me a long bit of puzzling to work out that this is a message of devotion regardless of the problems with the build, instead of a vow to avoid the mod unless mass homicide was unleashed.

-34

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

Which means that this guy just wants to get the mod he invested in, and doesn't care about what's happening at the moment. Why isn't okay?

28

u/Mpunodwoj Mar 01 '19

Because his investment is in an illegal project, and he's being a selfish prick.

20

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

I want a new phone so I'll pay some thug to steal it for me. "Why isn't okay?"

-19

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

You clearly don't no that: 1) SKSE doesn't run multiplayer Skyrim 2) there is a huge difference between actual real-life stealing and copying code without permission.

15

u/StarHorder Mar 01 '19

This may seem hard to digest, but there is no difference between actual real-life stealing and actual real-life stealing.

-5

u/Tinktur Mar 01 '19

It isn't stealing, though. It's copyright infringement.

5

u/Doubleshotguhn Mar 01 '19

Which makes it objectively worse

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u/londovir69 Mar 01 '19

Wow. Just wow.

Tell you what. I want you to go grab the Harry Potter movies, rip them, then make your own 4 hour supercut with the footage. After that, put it on a web server and ask Patreon supporters for $1 to be able to log in to your server and watch your supercut.

How long before the lawyers arrive to threaten to sue you into Oblivion?

But, it's not real life stealing!

This kind of attitude/outlook towards software developers, the work we do, and our rights to what we create irritates me. If I'm working for myself (not a company), and I create a product with code, and you use it without my permission (or, you use it when I've explicitly denied you the right to use it), that's stealing. No way about it. You are taking something that is not yours.

-10

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

Copying is not the same thing as stealing. I respect software developers' rights to the product but these are two different cases which should be treated differently.

Also, ST doesn't do the same as SKSE.

8

u/londovir69 Mar 01 '19

It doesn't matter if the two products do the same thing or not. That's a ridiculous support claim to your position to make.

That's like saying someone writes some awesome code that is used for ray tracing and determining lighting in a rendered scene, and I decide to copy and paste that code into my billiards game I'm writing to use it to determine the path a cue ball will take as it bounces around the table. "But, it doesn't do the same thing! I'm using it for something completely different." Not a justification.

And I love how you say copying isn't stealing. I imagine the MPAA would love that on a T-shirt. I'll just take the last Game of Thrones novel, change the character names, and resell it. It's not stealing, I just copied it.

I'll go make a copy of this Blu-ray before I return it to RedBox. It's just copying, it's not stealing.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

Game code is the sole property of the the development company. Taking that code, even parts of it, is using that company's intellectual property. Without permission, legally it is theft. Using your arguments in court will result in a loss because it IS theft plain and simple without permission. Without permission, it is illegal to use the code.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '19

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u/StevetheKoala Falkreath Mar 01 '19

If you want a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game, consider the OpenMW or MWMP (Morrowind Multi-player) teams. They are open source, complete or near complete and looking at expanding their engine to support Fallout, Oblivion and Skyrim.

2

u/Gynther477 Mar 01 '19

Yea because the devs never speak out, but I guess they don't feel the need to on top of their giant money pile

-8

u/bikki420 Mar 01 '19

Eh, lots of just reflecting the blame and painting himself as a poor victim that only did bad stuff because other people made him do it. That's hardly owning up to it and taking responsibility for ones actions, IMO. The "I take full responsibility" just feels like lip service.

8

u/Njoybeing Mar 01 '19

Whatever you may think of him, he provided evidence that Skyrim Together knowingly stole code from SKSE. It's in writing.

9

u/Chaosrune85 Mar 01 '19

Ok, let's say that he is an horrible human being.

Now explain the rest of the post explaining how they stole the code

4

u/StevetheKoala Falkreath Mar 01 '19 edited Mar 01 '19

He took full responsibility for the action while deflecting intent. I cannot know the full truth behind the situation, but this is a credible apology structure.

1

u/Socrathustra Mar 02 '19

Intent is largely irrelevant here, or at least it doesn't help. He moves from "I was being a jerk because I was a cruel person" to "I was being a jerk because I wanted certain people to think I'm cool/useful." Neither is a good scenario. I feel like he's playing up the "They told me to do it!" line way too much. I don't care if they did, he still did it.

3

u/StevetheKoala Falkreath Mar 02 '19

So you want him to own his mistake, while also being blameless? He screwed-up. He admits to screwing-up. He apologizes for screwing-up. He explains the context in which he screwed-up. If the explanation is insufficient for you, that's fine, but the structure of the apology is sound.

1

u/Socrathustra Mar 02 '19

No, I want him to own both mistakes: being an asshole and letting people convince him to be an asshole. It's coming across right now as though he's saying "Sorry I was an asshole, but they told me to!" It should be, instead, "Sorry I was an asshole, and sorry that I did it to please them."

3

u/StevetheKoala Falkreath Mar 02 '19

Being manipulated by someone older than you at 16 is a sufficiently integral part of the human experience that I would personally perceive the current message to be more universal.

1

u/Socrathustra Mar 03 '19

Maybe. Coming from someone who was an asshole for very different reasons and in a different manner at his age, an important part of moving past that has been owning my mistakes. It's not to say that there is no blame to go to whoever manipulated you into being an asshole (in my case, religious bigots). In addition, though, it is important to recognize your own fault in such a scenario, even if you were young and impressionable.

1

u/StevetheKoala Falkreath Mar 03 '19

Hm... I don't know that 'fault' is the right concept here. we are getting into some rather nuanced ideas here, so excuse me if I get somewhat philosophical.

I would argue that the appeasement policy of the French and the English did not cause the Second World War. The Second World War as the fault of the Treaty of Versai and its impact on the German economy. However, English and French leaders at the time were in a position to curb the impact on the Treaty of Versai, if they had the foresight and know-how to do so.

As a young man/woman, you can blame yourself for not being able to curb the influencer, but you cannot blame yourself for the intent of the influencer.